AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Freejack02]

4 minutes ago, AwareTheLegend said:

I think an interesting change to Prosecutors would be dropping the special weapon limit and letting them all choose a weapon.

It would make the whole unit more interesting in my opinion. 

I doubt we would see that because you couldn't build that straight out of the kit.

It would certainly be interesting, but I'm not sure the mobility + damage output would be in line with other 100 point options.... 4 damage at rend -1 for 3 grandhammers? That would work - I expected that number to be higher!

[AwareTheLegend]

8 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

It would certainly be interesting, but I'm not sure the mobility + damage output would be in line with other 100 point options.... 4 damage at rend -1 for 3 grandhammers? That would work - I expected that number to be higher!

Yeah even with 3 Grandhammers it isn't amazing on its own for 100 points. Have a Knight-Ayzros running around with them maybe.

Point is moot though because we won't see a change on them for a while.

[aceytrixx]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

 

3) I personally think a mix of both. More attacks is nice, but the really nice thing is that Grandstaves have a reach of 2" so you can fight in 2 ranks easier. You can mix and match.

This is my plan. Largely because 1 box will give me 2 5 man sword squads and an Incantor then I can add in staves when I want to expand to 10. 

[Erdemo86]

On the Warscroll of the Cleansing Phalanx Battalion the word „Evocators“ is printed fat. Does this mean its a keyword so you could take dracolines too?

Edited July 11, 2018 by Erdemo86

[Richelieu]

1 minute ago, Erdemo86 said:

On the Warscroll of the Cleansing Phalanx Battalion the word „Evocators“ is printed fat. Does this mean its a keyword so you could take dracolines too?

Yes

[Alfascozzesi]

30 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Exactly, it's free now. It's also the only way to get 1 Gryph Hound into your list (well him and the Veritant)

Thats great. Thanks for the quick reply.

I know that its already been said but think that the change to the starsouls should have made a points difference to my retributors.  That said on masse they still walk through units but tou have to get them attacking first.

[Requizen]

17 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Yes

And personally I think a unit of each is quite good. You can fill up an army really fast just on this battalion alone if you're not careful.

[Richelieu]

3 minutes ago, Requizen said:

And personally I think a unit of each is quite good. You can fill up an army really fast just on this battalion alone if you're not careful.

I think this battalion could be key to competitive stormcast.  I played a game against Nurgle on Monday and the incidental mortals and spell damage my opponent out out completely wrecked my low wound count army.  I ended up winning through some strong objective play and a couple mistakes on my opponent's part, but I was nearly tabled.  

If I think about how the game went and substitute a phalanx army (including refraction lens) for what I brought, I would have completely controlled the board and never been in any danger of losing much of the army.  

[Requizen]

2 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

I think this battalion could be key to competitive stormcast.  I played a game against Nurgle on Monday and the incidental mortals and spell damage my opponent out out completely wrecked my low wound count army.  I ended up winning through some strong objective play and a couple mistakes on my opponent's part, but I was nearly tabled.  

If I think about how the game went and substitute a phalanx army (including refraction lens) for what I brought, I would have completely controlled the board and never been in any danger of losing much of the army.  

I 100% believe that Lens of Refraction is a staple for Stormcast now. It's in every list I've written, and also why I'm shying away from Wizards and Endless Spells, because I think it'll be in lots of other lists. 

[PJetski]

23 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I 100% believe that Lens of Refraction is a staple for Stormcast now. It's in every list I've written, and also why I'm shying away from Wizards and Endless Spells, because I think it'll be in lots of other lists. 

Lens is really strong but it's not going to be an auto-include and the opportunity cost is massive.  It's harder to fit into lists that want to utilize the Stormhosts because of the required artefact choice, and it's not very useful if you have a list focused on deep striking your units into play.

For example, a Grand Convocation + Stardrake list will have at least 2 dispel scrolls, 4+ regular unbinds, and potentially -2 to enemy casting through Stardrake + Everblaze Comet - lens is a lot less valuable in that setup since you already have so much magical defense available. It's also worth noting that it does nothing against lists that don't use direct damage spells... and aside from Stormcast, Kroak, Tzeentch (and maybe Nurgle) I don't see many armies doing more than launching an endless spell or two.

The other realm artifacts are very strong, especially on Stormcast heroes. A Lord Arcanum on Dracoline with Pride Leader can do some gross things with a Blade of Judgment, giving a LCOD Thunderaxe Rend-3 or +1/+1 can be devastating, Mirrorshield and Gryph-Feather Charm are amazing defensive tools for key units, and so on.

Edited July 11, 2018 by PJetski

[AwareTheLegend]

21 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I 100% believe that Lens of Refraction is a staple for Stormcast now. It's in every list I've written, and also why I'm shying away from Wizards and Endless Spells, because I think it'll be in lots of other lists. 

I have been much the same. Getting Lens really requires you to grab a battalion though. Admittedly I'll be using Cleansing Phalanx heavily for the first few months.

 

25 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

I think this battalion could be key to competitive stormcast.  I played a game against Nurgle on Monday and the incidental mortals and spell damage my opponent out out completely wrecked my low wound count army.  I ended up winning through some strong objective play and a couple mistakes on my opponent's part, but I was nearly tabled.  

If I think about how the game went and substitute a phalanx army (including refraction lens) for what I brought, I would have completely controlled the board and never been in any danger of losing much of the army.  

Nurgle with the right set up does a lot of MWs which hurts SCE pretty hard. I've played against a double GUO list so much that it doesn't bother me as much. Some of our new spells do similar things which I find pretty funny. I'm pretty salty about Rotigus's unlimited range mortal wound spells.

[Requizen]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

Lens is really strong but it's not going to be an auto-include and the opportunity cost is massive.  It's harder to fit into lists that want to utilize the Stormhosts because of the required artefact choice, and it's not very useful if you have a list focused on deep striking your units into play.

For example, a Grand Convocation + Stardrake list will have at least 2 dispel scrolls, 4+ regular unbinds, and potentially -2 to enemy casting through Stardrake + Everblaze Comet - lens is a lot less valuable in that setup since you already have so much magical defense available. It's also worth noting that it does nothing against lists that don't use direct damage spells... and aside from Stormcast, Kroak, Tzeentch (and maybe Nurgle) I don't see many armies doing more than launching an endless spell or two.

The other realm artifacts are very strong, especially on Stormcast heroes. A Lord Arcanum on Dracoline with Pride Leader can do some gross things with a Blade of Judgment, giving a LCOD Thunderaxe Rend-3 or +1/+1 can be devastating, Mirrorshield and Gryph-Feather Charm are amazing defensive tools for key units, and so on.

I agree with that assessment, but I believe we're already quite durable against most other forms of damage - regular attacks rarely bother since most things will be 3+ or 2+ thanks to Staunch/Castellant (and much of that rerolling), so MWs are and always have been our bane. Tzeentch and Nurgle in particular do a lot of MW spell damage, and the Lens will shut down those armies wholesale. 

Of course, if Lens becomes too popular, then those armies go away, then it becomes less valuable... metas often go in circles.

[PJetski]

Just now, Requizen said:

I agree with that assessment, but I believe we're already quite durable against most other forms of damage - regular attacks rarely bother since most things will be 3+ or 2+ thanks to Staunch/Castellant (and much of that rerolling), so MWs are and always have been our bane. Tzeentch and Nurgle in particular do a lot of MW spell damage, and the Lens will shut down those armies wholesale. 

Of course, if Lens becomes too popular, then those armies go away, then it becomes less valuable... metas often go in circles.

I think the Hammers trait is incredibly powerful for exactly this reason. Stacking Cycles with a 6+ ignore makes us really resilient against mortal wounds... and that includes all the mortal wounds that come from sources besides spells.

I am starting to think that 6+ ignore is better for us than Staunch Defender...

Nurgle/Tzeentch MW spam lists are slow and predictable (especially now that summoning happens in the movement phase) so most SC lists should be able to handle those matchups without the Lens using deep strikes, outranging their wizards, heavy cavalry that can crash into them, or any combination of those.

[ShadowSwordmaster]

51 minutes ago, Requizen said:

And personally I think a unit of each is quite good. You can fill up an army really fast just on this battalion alone if you're not careful.

I know someone at my local store is planning to try this out and see how it works out. 

[azmarus]

43 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I think the Hammers trait is incredibly powerful for exactly this reason. Stacking Cycles with a 6+ ignore makes us really resilient against mortal wounds... and that includes all the mortal wounds that come from sources besides spells.

I am starting to think that 6+ ignore is better for us than Staunch Defender...

Nurgle/Tzeentch MW spam lists are slow and predictable (especially now that summoning happens in the movement phase) so most SC lists should be able to handle those matchups without the Lens using deep strikes, outranging their wizards, heavy cavalry that can crash into them, or any combination of those.

on math 2+ save better 3+6++ on 32%%

3+ save better 4+6++ on 16

4+ save better 5+6++ on 8%

5+ save bettter 6+6++ on 4%

without mw

[Requizen]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I think the Hammers trait is incredibly powerful for exactly this reason. Stacking Cycles with a 6+ ignore makes us really resilient against mortal wounds... and that includes all the mortal wounds that come from sources besides spells.

I am starting to think that 6+ ignore is better for us than Staunch Defender...

Doubtful, there are more Wound sources than pure MW sources, and the 6+ is fairly minor in either case. It's nice to have, and definitely of the Stormhosts one of the least bad Traits, but it's not quite Staunch.

3 minutes ago, ShadowSwordmaster said:

I know someone at my local store is planning to try this out and see how it works out. 

I would be curious. By the time you take Cleansing, Arcanum on Mount, 2x10 Sequitors, 10 Foot Evocators, 3 Dracoline Evocators, and a Liberator unit, that's already north of 1600 points, more if the Mount is Tauralon. And I would consider bumping at least one of the Sequitor units to 20.

[PJetski]

28 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Doubtful, there are more Wound sources than pure MW sources, and the 6+ is fairly minor in either case. It's nice to have, and definitely of the Stormhosts one of the least bad Traits, but it's not quite Staunch.

In my experience it's always the mortal wound armies that give me the most trouble. Melee/shooting armies generally aren't that big of a concern. It's also worth noting that Staunch Defender doesnt work on the turn we charge, and stacking -1hit from Shock and Awe with a 6+ ignore is really good.

I think offering 1/6 protection at all times and against all sources is better than +1 save if you're trying to build a well rounded list, or a deep strike/charge focused list. If you can predict the meta to have low mortal wounds, or are playing a primarily shooting/magic list then Staunch is a strong contender.

Im just amazed they gave us abilities that can even come close to Staunch Defender, given how it was mandatory in the last battletome. I was certain they were going to completely remove it.

Edited July 11, 2018 by PJetski

[Urauloth]

How on earth did you all decide on your stormhost? I thought I was settled on my decision until I actually got the battletome, but now I'm really torn because I like the lore, colour schemes and modelling potential for about 4 of them and it's also hard to shake the idea of cooking up one a late-striking host from wholecloth. This is so much harder than I thought it would be!

Anyway, I'm completely new to SCE, so I have a couple of noob questions if you don't mind. One of those is Judicators; Starting with Soul Wars etc, I already have Castigators, should I look into Judicators as well? I like the models and the longer range of their bows looks like it might be useful, but I've no idea how they're currently considered or how the two stack up. Olso on the subject of shooting, I know people were worried about longstrike Raptors being ruined by LOS! when it was first revealed, but since they deal MWs on unmodified 6s now, are they back on top of the sniping game? They look like a good investment, but I'm coming to the army from a place of never having used anything that shoots (Bloodbound, Deathrattle, Flesh-Eaters) so I might just be overawed at the idea of doing anything in the shooting phase at all.

[Richelieu]

7 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

How on earth did you all decide on your stormhost? I thought I was settled on my decision until I actually got the battletome, but now I'm really torn because I like the lore, colour schemes and modelling potential for about 4 of them and it's also hard to shake the idea of cooking up one a late-striking host from wholecloth. This is so much harder than I thought it would be!

Anyway, I'm completely new to SCE, so I have a couple of noob questions if you don't mind. One of those is Judicators; Starting with Soul Wars etc, I already have Castigators, should I look into Judicators as well? I like the models and the longer range of their bows looks like it might be useful, but I've no idea how they're currently considered or how the two stack up. Olso on the subject of shooting, I know people were worried about longstrike Raptors being ruined by LOS! when it was first revealed, but since they deal MWs on unmodified 6s now, are they back on top of the sniping game? They look like a good investment, but I'm coming to the army from a place of never having used anything that shoots (Bloodbound, Deathrattle, Flesh-Eaters) so I might just be overawed at the idea of doing anything in the shooting phase at all.

Just keep this in mind: you can paint your army however looks cool to you.  Then use whichever stormhost rules you feel like playing with at any given time.

[Requizen]

12 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

How on earth did you all decide on your stormhost? I thought I was settled on my decision until I actually got the battletome, but now I'm really torn because I like the lore, colour schemes and modelling potential for about 4 of them and it's also hard to shake the idea of cooking up one a late-striking host from wholecloth. This is so much harder than I thought it would be!

Anyway, I'm completely new to SCE, so I have a couple of noob questions if you don't mind. One of those is Judicators; Starting with Soul Wars etc, I already have Castigators, should I look into Judicators as well? I like the models and the longer range of their bows looks like it might be useful, but I've no idea how they're currently considered or how the two stack up. Olso on the subject of shooting, I know people were worried about longstrike Raptors being ruined by LOS! when it was first revealed, but since they deal MWs on unmodified 6s now, are they back on top of the sniping game? They look like a good investment, but I'm coming to the army from a place of never having used anything that shoots (Bloodbound, Deathrattle, Flesh-Eaters) so I might just be overawed at the idea of doing anything in the shooting phase at all.

I painted Anvils because they're relatively easy (I'm not the greatest painter) and wanted a more muted color tone. Then I read Lord of Undeath and really liked the Anvils characters in there, and now the new lore for them and the Soul Wars novel has me really happy with my decision. I also like the tactical flexibility of the Stormhost rules, so it's a win/win for me by luck.

4 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

Just keep this in mind: you can paint your army however looks cool to you.  Then use whichever stormhost rules you feel like playing with at any given time.

This. Unless you're playing in a fully narrative event, there's no reason that playing green painted Stormcast as Knights Excelsior should be a problem (and even then as long as your narrative works I wouldn't' worry about it).

[PJetski]

Which artifacts do you prefer for an "immortal Stardrake" type of list ? I have a Grand Convocation in the list so I have 2 dispel scrolls and plenty of unbinding.

Right now I'm looking at the following options:
Lens (expecting to see Nurgle & Seraphon, this protects all my frail wizards)
Mirrorshield (neuter shooting armies completely)
Gryph-feather Charm (remove all those pesky hit6+ abilities, both melee and missile) 
Ignax's Scales (4+ ignore vs mw seems good against new Longstrikes, spells, stormfiends, etc.)

[RantingBob]

I'm confused.  How do you fit 3 Greatmaces into a 5 man squad of Sequitors?  Is it 1/3 (or part thereof) +prime or just 1/3 + prime?  The first is 3, the second 2.  Does that mean in a ten man squad, you can have five Greatmaces?

Also, is the Everblaze Comet as good as it seems?

I'm thinking of going something like this:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Tempest Lords
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm 
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Stormcaller
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Translocation
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed

Battleline
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 4x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 4x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
5 x Evocators (200)
5 x Evocators (200)

Battalions
Cleansing Phalanx (120)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
 

I have 1 more artefact to grant, not sure what yet.  I'm not sure on Tempest Lords and am open to suggestions.  I'm currently in Aqshy because my army is based for Aqshy, but again, I'm down for whatever.  I'm also unsure on Cogs, but with so many footsloggers, a well placed Deep Strike + Cogs could be brutal.

[kenshin620]

 

3 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I painted Anvils because they're relatively easy (I'm not the greatest painter) and wanted a more muted color tone. Then I read Lord of Undeath and really liked the Anvils characters in there, and now the new lore for them and the Soul Wars novel has me really happy with my decision. I also like the tactical flexibility of the Stormhost rules, so it's a win/win for me by luck.

This. Unless you're playing in a fully narrative event, there's no reason that playing green painted Stormcast as Knights Excelsior should be a problem (and even then as long as your narrative works I wouldn't' worry about it).

 

Plus imo since Stormcasts are so new to warhammer as a whole, theres right now not much emotional connection to adhering to a stormhosts color scheme to its rules compared to say Space Marines. I mean I'd definitely be weirded out if someone had a Black Templar army thats actually a Space Wolves army.

Edited July 11, 2018 by kenshin620

[amysrevenge]

Just now, RantingBob said:

I'm confused.  How do you fit 3 Greatmaces into a 5 man squad of Sequitors?  Is it 1/3 (or part thereof) +prime or just 1/3 + prime?  The first is 3, the second 2.  Does that mean in a ten man squad, you can have five Greatmaces?

1/3 is an artifact of the incomplete Soul Wars warscrolls.  The battletome warscroll is 2/5 plus 1 for the prime.

[Requizen]

4 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Which artifacts do you prefer for an "immortal Stardrake" type of list ? I have a Grand Convocation in the list so I have 2 dispel scrolls and plenty of unbinding.

Right now I'm looking at the following options:
Lens (expecting to see Nurgle & Seraphon, this protects all my frail wizards)
Mirrorshield (neuter shooting armies completely)
Gryph-feather Charm (remove all those pesky hit6+ abilities, both melee and missile) 
Ignax's Scales (4+ ignore vs mw seems good against new Longstrikes, spells, stormfiends, etc.)

I'm leaning towards Staunch + Ignax, personally. Mirrorshield shuts down shooting armies, but generally so does a 1+rr (healing) save with a 4+++ MW save.

If you think you need Lens and you have a Battalion, you can go Lens on a foot dude, and then Mirrored Cuirass on the Stardrake. 5+++ isn't as good as 4+++, but you get both effects.