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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

Yes but how do you plan to guarantee that charge? You're still 9" from the enemy and without scions (cause you have to be in the Stormkeep for the battalion) you can't use Gavriel, which leaves you with... cogs?

EDIT: my bad, you redeploy BEFORE the battle begins, so you move at your leisure and charge 4" :D

OMG. Just noticed that too. This CHANGES things... 

Noticed that the Lord Veritent's gryph-hound is technically left behind if you re-deploy, as its not part of the battalion? 

Also: can I confirm that the Royal Companion ability on the Gryph-hound unit of 6, gets proc by the Lord-veritant, effectively doubling attacks? Not that its spectacular but it helps. 

Edited by Evantas

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38 minutes ago, Evantas said:

OMG. Just noticed that too. This CHANGES things... 

Noticed that the Lord Veritent's gryph-hound is technically left behind if you re-deploy, as its not part of the battalion? 

Also: can I confirm that the Royal Companion ability on the Gryph-hound unit of 6, gets proc by the Lord-veritant, effectively doubling attacks? Not that its spectacular but it helps. 

It may be real hard to pull out, i think the unit has to be wholly within the lord to get this so not gonna happen a lot of times.

Edited by jeanfluflu

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Hmm... there’s something here with the Stormkeep patrol teleport and Celestial Warbringers Fearless Foresight, I think. Due to sequencing you can teleport forwards, then if enemy takes the first turn, Foresight away to safety.

This gets around the downside with Astral Templars Dauntless Hunters which often left your units exposed.

Given the battalion uses Redeemer there may be value to 20 Sequitors again used this way.

Not sure how the rest of the list would look as Ballista lose a lot without Scions. Perhaps there are some good shooting units in CoS?

Edited by PrimeElectrid

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Today's Honest Wargamer video discussed some lists inspired by the Broken Realm book. Starting around the 1 hour mark Darren Watson discusses a list based on the Stormkeep with the new battalions (Patrol and Wardens) and a lot of liberators :D

 

Edited by Marcvs

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3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Today's Honest Wargamer video discussed some lists inspired by the Broken Realm book. Starting around the 1 hour mark Darren Watson discusses a list based on the Stormkeep with the new battalions (Patrol and Wardens) and a lot of liberators :D

 

i do like this list. I wonder how hard it is to put the lantern on the unit liberators because you want to get wholly within 18 and that is not going to hapen easy if you teleport al those liberators.

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1 hour ago, Juicy said:

i do like this list. I wonder how hard it is to put the lantern on the unit liberators because you want to get wholly within 18 and that is not going to hapen easy if you teleport al those liberators.

I am more concerned about being able to get Gavriel in range to use his ability

 

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1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

I am more concerned about being able to get Gavriel in range to use his ability

 

this aswell!

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16 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Today's Honest Wargamer video discussed some lists inspired by the Broken Realm book. Starting around the 1 hour mark Darren Watson discusses a list based on the Stormkeep with the new battalions (Patrol and Wardens) and a lot of liberators :D

 

The idea of teleporting 9" away from the enemy and being able to get Sureheart from your deployment zone to a point that gets 30-60 libs wholly within 12" is divorced from reality.  Furthermore, he's talking about getting the castellants's +1 save on both units, but they are back in your deployment zone and use their ability in the hero phase, so there is no way you get them into position for that not-reading-the-rules reality he's describing in turn 1. I doubt you even get them in turn 2 unless you're spending a command point or two maxing your run rolls.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like in these battalions, I'm just not impressed with the breakdown of a scenario that's not based in any realistic game scenario I can imagine. Maybe I'm missing something obvious that brings this all together? Roast me if I am.

Edited by firtahl
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14 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I am more concerned about being able to get Gavriel in range to use his ability

 

As mentioned in the video you had options in select some heroes.

You can easily just take a vexilor and stop worrying. 👍

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14 hours ago, firtahl said:

The idea of teleporting 9" away from the enemy and being able to get Sureheart from your deployment zone to a point that gets 30-60 libs wholly within 12" is divorced from reality.  Furthermore, he's talking about getting the castellants's +1 save on both units, but they are back in your deployment zone and use their ability in the hero phase, so there is no way you get them into position for that not-reading-the-rules reality he's describing in turn 1. I doubt you even get them in turn 2 unless you're spending a command point or two maxing your run rolls.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like in these battalions, I'm just not impressed with the breakdown of a scenario that's not based in any realistic game scenario I can imagine. Maybe I'm missing something obvious that brings this all together? Roast me if I am.

This 100 procent! I understand we can vexillor gav in but then we spend another 110 points for the combo. The lord castellant buffing just aint going to happen with this senario.

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Despite playing for almost two years and SCE being the poster boys my experience with them is limited to one head-to-head at a tournament a year ago.  That said, during the first year I was playing when it looked like my kids might get into the game they were collecting SCE models based on the aesthetic.  My daughter completely lost interest despite having two friends who want to play (seriously they’ve asked if they can play against me since she’s not interested anymore ...) and my son decided that he was more interested in the Tau and their big robots so we’ve switched to playing Apocalypse and Kill Team with him.

As such I’ve had 3K+ worth of models collecting dust on the shelves so when it came time to pick armies for the third tournament in the Zoom League I run, and which is very much centered around elite lists and MONSTERS, I said I’d run SCE without checking to see whether I actually had the makings of an army list.  Little did I know how much SCE is really divided into different complimentary unit sets (e.g. Vanguard) and how a pure “Rule of Cool” from a 12 & 8 year olds’ perspectives would NOT line up with any of that.  For example, the only battle line I had were the Liberators we’ve collected at our local GW when getting painting lessons...  Picked up a box to build today so I can at least meet the basic list building requirement. 

For the first match (Knife to the Heart - to be determined whether against Gristelgore or Mawtribes) at 1.25K points (2 battle line req) I’ve cobbled together.

Hammers of Sigmar

Hailstorm Battery Battalion

Lord Ordinator (General)

- God-forged Blade

- We Cannot Fail

Drakesworn Templar

- Drakescale Armor

- Keen Clawed

- Stormlance

Astreia Solbright

- Chain Lightening

- Bounding Leap

5x Liberators

5x Liberators

3x Castigators

Celestar Ballista

Recognize this far from an optimized list but seemed relatively straight forward to play.  My original thought had been to leave the Drakesworn Templar in the sky and hope the rest could withstand the initial surge from my opponent to hold my objective, particularly as they’d have to hold something back to protect theirs.   Then I’d drop down the Drakesworn Templar to try and steal their objective while hopefully also managing to get Astreia into the thick of things.

Then the Morathi rules dropped and it seems to make some sense to lose the ability to keep units in the sky to be able to bolster those Liberator units to hopefully again survive the first charge.  If I’m going up against Gristelgore the extra Bravery also helps against their shooting.  Does it make sense to drop the extra mobility from the old AA to take advantage of these?

For the next match at 1.5K looking to fill in a lot of gaps to get to a more reasonable list but would appreciate any thoughts.

 

Edited by Beer & Pretzels Gamer

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13 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Recognize this far from an optimized list but seemed relatively straight forward to play.  My original thought had been to leave the Drakesworn Templar in the sky and hope the rest could withstand the initial surge from my opponent to hold my objective, particularly as they’d have to hold something back to protect theirs.   Then I’d drop down the Drakesworn Templar to try and steal their objective while hopefully also managing to get Astreia into the thick of things.

Then the Morathi rules dropped and it seems to make some sense to lose the ability to keep units in the sky to be able to bolster those Liberator units to hopefully again survive the first charge.  If I’m going up against Gristelgore the extra Bravery also helps against their shooting.  Does it make sense to drop the extra mobility from the old AA to take advantage of these?

For the next match at 1.5K looking to fill in a lot of gaps to get to a more reasonable list but would appreciate any thoughts.

 

Ok so, just a few comments for some minor changes you can include. Of course the list, as you say, remains not very optimised (the ordinator for just one ballista is a huge point sink, and the castigators really don't do much). Anyway:

-I don't think it's worth it going for the stormkeep with just 10 liberators, losing the mobility of deepstriking is too much of a price for what you gain

-I would keep the dragon on the table (especially if there's not too much shooting around), cause otherwise you are betting on a 9" charge (50/50 even with the CP reroll). In fact, if the tournament is a littlbe bit lenient with WYSIWYG, I would play the dragon as a Lord Celestant on Stardrake, which is tankier than the templar

-Hammers of Sigmar is not doing much for you, I would go no Stormhost to get Staunch defender and pick an artefact. Then I would make the dragon your general, to put Staunch on a more survivable unit (and have a bigger base to extend the aura)

-For filling your 1.5k pts I would then consider a lord castellant. It could provide a nice combo with the dragon, to bring it to 1+ save rr1 healing on 5+

-Another piece you can add is the Everblaze Comet, since you have a wizard and a dragon to give him/her +1 to cast. You could also pick the Staff of Focus thanks to the battalion to add another +1 for the t1 comet.

 

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On 11/14/2020 at 2:21 PM, Juicy said:

This 100 procent! I understand we can vexillor gav in but then we spend another 110 points for the combo. The lord castellant buffing just aint going to happen with this senario.

another option would be to go Astral templar, make the veritant your general, and use the pre-game movement (as I read it, it happens at the same time as the redeployment so you can pick the order). That would give you a 3" charge

 

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Couldn't sleep last night and decide I'd set up a 1k points game vs my Gitz and play it through with myself just to try some stuff.

Big take away was that Evocators on Dracoline are really awesome when buffed. I was using Tempest Lords so I had 4 CPs round 2, I charged them in and gave them All Out Attack, Rousing Oratory and Pack Alpha also had the LA in with Pride Leader. Wasn't planning on adding All Out Attack but I luckily rolled refunds on both CPs so I thought why the hell not. They were only up against the 6+ of a Squig Herd but the managed to deal 38 wounds!!!! Absolutely obliterated the unit so didn't get to use Lightning Arc.

Going to try and work a unit of 6 into my list at 2k points I think.

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13 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

another option would be to go Astral templar, make the veritant your general, and use the pre-game movement (as I read it, it happens at the same time as the redeployment so you can pick the order). That would give you a 3" charge

 

I Like this a lot. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Juicy said:

I Like this a lot. 

 

 

Not my idea (seen this from Joel McGrath on twitter) but double patrol with libs spam in Astral templar seems fun :D

 I still wonder whether the battleshock immunity from Skyborne Slayers would still be better for survivability

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If im not mistaking the Stormkeep patrol batallion (Lord veritant, 2 units of redeemer/justicar units, 1 unit dogs) can include Vanguard raptors as they have the justicar keyword. Has anyone experimented with listbuilding involving say a unit of 12 vanguard raptors in anvils of the heldenhammer, and maybe a liberator screen, deploying on an objective 24” from your enemy shooting in the hero phase, then translocate (prayer from veritant) to be 30” away in the shooting phase. So you shoot twice turn 1 for just 1 cp. Maybe throw in a azyros that u teleport up with a vexillor if u really want that rerolling 1s. Just thinking out loud and wondering if anyone have given this some thought? 24” shots turn 1 only spending 1 cp, choosing your target, and if u kill it 2/3 chance to Relocate to another high priority target if u need to. 

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15 minutes ago, Django said:

If im not mistaking the Stormkeep patrol batallion (Lord veritant, 2 units of redeemer/justicar units, 1 unit dogs) can include Vanguard raptors as they have the justicar keyword. Has anyone experimented with listbuilding involving say a unit of 12 vanguard raptors in anvils of the heldenhammer, and maybe a liberator screen, deploying on an objective 24” from your enemy shooting in the hero phase, then translocate (prayer from veritant) to be 30” away in the shooting phase. So you shoot twice turn 1 for just 1 cp. Maybe throw in a azyros that u teleport up with a vexillor if u really want that rerolling 1s. Just thinking out loud and wondering if anyone have given this some thought? 24” shots turn 1 only spending 1 cp, choosing your target, and if u kill it 2/3 chance to Relocate to another high priority target if u need to. 

Came to the same conclusion, think u can only have 9 raptors max tho. 

The veritant's gryphhound also makes it harder to punish by making it painful to deepstrike the raptors. 

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2 minutes ago, Evantas said:

Came to the same conclusion, think u can only have 9 raptors max tho. 

The veritant's gryphhound also makes it harder to punish by making it painful to deepstrike the raptors. 

I think 12 is maximum size for the unit? I can at least get 12 in the warscroll builder. 
 

what do u mean with the gryph hours? That u can block board space?

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3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Ok so, just a few comments for some minor changes you can include. Of course the list, as you say, remains not very optimised (the ordinator for just one ballista is a huge point sink, and the castigators really don't do much). Anyway:

-I don't think it's worth it going for the stormkeep with just 10 liberators, losing the mobility of deepstriking is too much of a price for what you gain

-I would keep the dragon on the table (especially if there's not too much shooting around), cause otherwise you are betting on a 9" charge (50/50 even with the CP reroll). In fact, if the tournament is a littlbe bit lenient with WYSIWYG, I would play the dragon as a Lord Celestant on Stardrake, which is tankier than the templar

-Hammers of Sigmar is not doing much for you, I would go no Stormhost to get Staunch defender and pick an artefact. Then I would make the dragon your general, to put Staunch on a more survivable unit (and have a bigger base to extend the aura)

-For filling your 1.5k pts I would then consider a lord castellant. It could provide a nice combo with the dragon, to bring it to 1+ save rr1 healing on 5+

-Another piece you can add is the Everblaze Comet, since you have a wizard and a dragon to give him/her +1 to cast. You could also pick the Staff of Focus thanks to the battalion to add another +1 for the t1 comet.

 

Thanks for the Feedback.

We named the new escalation tournament Holiday Havoc because we knew the Holidays would wreck Havoc with our scheduling and sure enough the first round match ups already in question.  That said the list was originally built to go up against Gristelgore and FEC’s Bravery based shooting.  So one aspect of Hammers that I appreciated was the +1 to Bravery further reduced my vulnerability to their Shooting.  Not sure that’s enough to justify taking Hammers but, and this is circular if the Castigators are simply a waste anyway, another aspect was my understanding that to be able to use Astreia’s CA on them I needed to take Hammers.

As far as WYSIWYG we are pretty lax both because in general we are a pretty chill gaming group but also because the very nature of our Zoom League means we are playing based on what I have on hand and/or can proxy, with the other players viewing the table via Zoom.  Players can and have dropped off armies but, for example, we aren’t sweating the Ironjawz player on whether the Gore Gruntas are built with Hackas or Choppas when they build their list.  So besides the points constraint at 1.25K no reason at higher levels I couldn’t upgrade to the Lord Celestant on Stardrake.

Regarding Staunch Defender a clear lesson from prior league games is that when playing either Mawtribes or Warclans you typically want your biggest Hammer to be be doing the charging instead of being charged given the Damage dealt on the charge by these units and the buffs they get from charging. I was hesitant than that I would be losing the Staunch Defender buff when I needed it most?

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16 minutes ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Regarding Staunch Defender a clear lesson from prior league games is that when playing either Mawtribes or Warclans you typically want your biggest Hammer to be be doing the charging instead of being charged given the Damage dealt on the charge by these units and the buffs they get from charging. I was hesitant than that I would be losing the Staunch Defender buff when I needed it most?

Yes, that's a concern of course, but losing it in the one round where you charge still means you get it in the following rounds as long as you survive the first. The inclusion of the castellant might help in this sense, as would taking the artifact from Chamon "plate of perfect protection"

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1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

The inclusion of the castellant might help

Have ordered one, as yeah, that seems like a pretty solid support piece.  Strangely enough my kids didn’t find a guy holding a lantern (at least without wings...) to be cool.  Same goes for totems.  So while I had a lot of the big toys such as Stardrake, Taurulon and Prime was pretty deficient in the more general support units. 

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Just now, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

Have ordered one, as yeah, that seems like a pretty solid support piece.  Strangely enough my kids didn’t find a guy holding a lantern (at least without wings...) to be cool.  Same goes for totems.  So while I had a lot of the big toys such as Stardrake, Taurulon and Prime was pretty deficient in the more general support units. 

sa a owner (and player) of two stardrakes, I can relate :D and yes, the castellant is a solid choice anyway, he fits in a lot of different lists

Edited by Marcvs
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What are you guys hoping to see for Stormcast in the winter FAQ update?

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