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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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Guys i just bought the book. Im planning to play a list around lord celestiant on stardrake. What cavalry is better? There are so many options..

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys i just bought the book. Im planning to play a list around lord celestiant on stardrake. What cavalry is better? There are so many options..

its not really recomended to play both cavarly and stardrake, they cost to much to be played together, if you want to play a stardrake list you have to go with a 6+ save mortal wound spam shenanigan  list (REALLY fun, but do not think to be competitive)

If you want to play a strong cavalry list i suggest sacrosant, the dracolines are so much fun, i play this list with great results

Gavriel Sureheart (120)
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- General
- Artefact : God-forged Blade
- Spell : Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait : Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (120)
- Mystic Light (Artefact) : Shriving Light

UNITS
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (520)
5 x Evocators (220)
10 x Sequitors (260)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 6 x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Sequitors (260)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 6 x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

BATTALIONS
Cleansing Phalanx (120)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Extra Command Point (50)

Also the concussors/fulminators are good, but they cost insanely hight, keep in mind that 4 concussors and a stardrake clock at a wooping 1000pts, literally half your army

hope it helps

EDIT: remember also that stardrake/drakeswarn are REALLY pillow fisted, they function is to stuck a unit into combat and be there forever

Edited by Yondaime
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1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys i just bought the book. Im planning to play a list around lord celestiant on stardrake. What cavalry is better? There are so many options..

Since you plan on using a Stardrake, take a loot at the Starcast thread too. There are 2 lists with dracothian guard in page 1.

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Posted (edited)
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100) - Sky
- General
- Command Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Artefact: God-forged Blade
Gavriel Sureheart (120) - Sky
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Aventis Firestrike Magister of Hammerhal (340)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
- Mount trait: 6+ ward
Knight-Vexillor (120) - Sky
- Teleport Standard

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
10 x Evocators (440)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

Artillery
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118



Okay, what do you think about this? Synergies and overall plan is here: Evocators start on ground so they buff them self. Then Vexilor Gavriel and Azyros drop, vexilor use his banner to teleport buffed evo, then charge with +3 and reroll. Ballistas can slowly move on and start rapid fire on second turn i think. Aventis is here only for ability of +1 to hit for ballistas, i never tried this but sounds promising. Also he stay close to general he have 3+/6+/6+ due to the mount trait that i forget to pick in roster. 
Edited by Nizrah

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HI guys, I really like the aesthetic of the Vanguard Chamber and want to build an army heavily centered toward them, what are units I should include/ add to support the Vanguards?

 

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1 hour ago, RonnPhan said:

HI guys, I really like the aesthetic of the Vanguard Chamber and want to build an army heavily centered toward them, what are units I should include/ add to support the Vanguards?

 

Is this geared for casual/narrative or competitive play?

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Probably just a casual army but I want to make sure my army is not always at the bottom :)

 

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1 minute ago, RonnPhan said:

Probably just a casual army but I want to make sure my army is not always at the bottom :)

 

If you plan on the bulk of your army being vanguard and don't want an anvilstrike list......Well bottom isn't too bad if you're having fun.

For casual, and if you going for the bulk of your army vanguard I personally would add in units that are high mobility like the rest of the army, I'd probably go with a celestant prime,  Knight-Azyros, Evocators on Dracoline, Dracoth's, etc.  But that would be purely for fun.   

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Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Soulthief
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Lord-Relictor (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Deathly Aura

Battleline
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 2x Grandhammers
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 2x Grandhammers
10 x Liberators (200)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 2x Grandhammers

Units
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (510)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)

Artillery
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133

 

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On 6/23/2020 at 4:08 PM, Nizrah said:

Drakesworn tend to roll 2 on hit bow :/

Welcome to the party :D

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Posted (edited)
On 6/23/2020 at 4:57 PM, OkayestDM said:

 

 

Ok, this has me thinking of a potentially interesting list:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- General
- Storm Lance
Lynus Ghalmorian on Gryph-Charger (240)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units
8 x Desolators (800)

Total: 1760 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 93

The idea in my head is they Lynus sticks close to the Desolators to provide +1 to hit buff, Stormhost ability, and any of the buffing spells (Celestial Blades is my favorite, but Azyrite Halo and Thundershock could be useful too.)

The Drakesworn provides redundancy/further buffing. It looks like those +1s would stack.

I went with 4 units of Desolators so there is a wounds buffer to keep their attacks bonus.

The extra 240 points could go into anything (including another unit of Desolators, if one were so inclined.) I was considering adding in some Judicators and going for the Thunderhead Brotherhood to reduce drops and add a command point, but the points don't work out.

Moving the big block o' Desolators around the table would be tricky, and the list is a 1 trick pony that'd be pretty simple to debuff. Grabbing objectives would be iffy too.  Probably not Tournament worthy, but would make for one heck of a fight.

You need a castellant, it's compulsory. A knight Azyros could do the trick too so you don't need a CP to reroll ones.
Keep your Drake where it's "protected", on a table Edge. near your Desolators. Try to engage with the Drake first so the enemy can'tpile in on the desolators, wreck face with said unit. Rinse. Repeat.

Edited by Maturin

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With the GHB20 on the horizon, what you all think

SCE yay or nay ?

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12 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

With the GHB20 on the horizon, what you all think

SCE yay or nay ?

It depends, some warscrolls are old, period, GHB wont change warscrolls

Some point reduction will be VERY welcome tho. like evocators, drakes, judicators

Or the warscroll battalions that cost insanely hight compared to other armys

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Posted (edited)

The best units in a Stormcast army right now are Salamanders and Lord Kroak.

I don't think they can do much to fix it with points, because they would have to slash almost everything down by 20% to make this army competitive. The knockdown effect of that is Stormcast bringing a lot more bodies to the table... which doesn't seem to fit with the idea of what this army ought to be doing.

The main issues I see are threefold

1. The allegiance abilities suck! The artefacts are junk, the spell lore is underwhelming, all the subfactions are just terrible. Anvils is the only good one, and it has been power crept hard.

2. The warscrolls are out of date. An elite army shouldn't have basic troops with a 4+ save and no rend on their attacks, and general type heroes with only 5 wounds. Even the newer units are underwhelming - Wizards with no casting bonuses, overpriced battleline and the worst shooting unit in the game (Castigators). The battalions are all trash, too.

3. Too many overpriced heroes that don't do much. There is very little synergy between units, and what is there is generally not worthwhile. Even as combat heroes Stormcast are underwhelming - the wizard heroes do more melee damage than the non-wizards!

Though I am extremely pessimistic about the state of Stormcast and think they need a new book, I would like to see the following point changes in the meantime:

  • Point changes
    • Strike Chamber
      • Celestant Prime 340 > 280
      • Castellant 120 > 100
      • Celestant 100 > 80
      • Celestant on Dracoth  220 > 180
      • Relictor 100 > 90
      • Veritant 120 > 110
      • Questor 100 > 80
      • Venator 120 > 100
      • Vexillor 120 > 100
      • Liberators 100/520 > 80
      • Judicators 160 > 140
      • Prosecutors 90 > 80
      • Decimators 180 > 150
      • Retributors 200 > 160
      • Protectors 180 > 150
    • Extremis Chamber
      • Drakesworn Templar 420 > 380
      • Celestant on Stardrake 500 > 420
      • Concussors 240 > 220
      • Fulminators 240 > 220
      • Tempestors 200 > 180
    • Vanguard Chamber
      • Aquilor 180 > 160
      • Hunters 110 > 100
      • Gryph-Hounds 140 > 120
    • Sacrosanct Chamber
      • Aventis 340 > 300
      • Arcanum 160 > 140
      • Arcanum on Tauralon 320 > 260
      • Arcanum on Dracoline 220 > 200
      • Arcanum on Gryph-Charger 220 > 200
      • Exorcist 120 > 100
      • Ordinator 140 > 120
      • Sequitors 130/440 > 110
      • Evocators 220 > 200
      • Castigators 80 per 3 to 100 per 6
      • Ballista 110 > 100
      • Dais Arcanum 30 > 20
      • Celestian Vortex 40 > 30
      • Everblaze Comet 100 > 80
  • Role changes
    • Hunters battleline in Stormcast army
    • Palladors battleline if your general is a Lord-Aquilor
    • Prosecutors battleline in Stormcast army
    • Retributors battleline if your general is a LORD-CELESTANT
    • Tempestors battleline if your general is a STARDRAKE or DRACOTH

These are significant changes across the board, but I think it's warranted because so many Stormcast units range from underperforming to downright awful.

Edited by PJetski
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If that happens, GW will be burned to the ground by an angry mob :D

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1 hour ago, schwabbele said:

If that happens, GW will be burned to the ground by an angry mob :D

As much as I like the proposed changes... yeah, if GW makes SCE good (hell even average is enough) the angry anti-sce mobs will destroy them.

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5 hours ago, PJetski said:

The best units in a Stormcast army right now are Salamanders and Lord Kroak.

I don't think they can do much to fix it with points, because they would have to slash almost everything down by 20% to make this army competitive. The knockdown effect of that is Stormcast bringing a lot more bodies to the table... which doesn't seem to fit with the idea of what this army ought to be doing.

This. We can reasonably expect Kroak to go up to 410 points at least in the points update as well, so he won't be an ally option anymore either, which will really cement Stormcast's obsolescence. Without a massive overhaul to the scrolls, we're going to comfortable hang out with Sylvaneth at the bottom of the competitive hierarchy. 
The release of Lumineth was really the final nail in the coffin (after Tzeentch and Seraphon) for SC retaining any viability. These three armies are just pushing any inferior magic or shooting armies even further down the competitive hierarchy. SC basically only had shootcast as a viable tournament strat, and even KO's recent update made that a much more challenging proposition. 
In this new meta, pretty much all of our heroes can expect to die before our second turn, and the MW output of the competitive armies will likely also invalidate the Lord on a Star Drake. 
Hopefully the points update companion to the General's Handbook is chock fully of updated warscrolls for all the already low-tier armies that are about to be under the heel of our new magical overlords.

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50 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

We can reasonably expect Kroak to go up to 410 points at least

While I do agree from a "powre level" perspective, I wouldn't bet on such a big increase in points after such a short time (and without any official tournament)

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20 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

While I do agree from a "powre level" perspective, I wouldn't bet on such a big increase in points after such a short time (and without any official tournament)

Yeah it'd be huge change. Kroak is insanely undercosted though. He puts Alarielle to shame, and she's 600 points.

Kroak is almost... concerningly undercosted. That much power for 320 points makes me crazy skeptical about internal communication/development between the people working on different battletomes.

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I think Kroak is fine at 320. He's a named character 4 spell wizard with effectively 14 wounds... that's good but not out of line with a lot of other creatures at that point level. 

He seems to be fine in a Seraphon army and as an ally unit without the support pieces (Seraphon allegiance, spell lores, astrolith bearer, balewind vortex, saurus guard, vassal casting) his power is drastically reduced.

Only Stormcast armies can use him as an ally so the extra command points are very limited value.

If anything regular Slann and Troglodon are overcosted and should probably go down to 200-220.

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Posted (edited)

So sad to see SCE in such miserable state.

Ironically, the Covid spread has put a halt to almost all group gaming activities in my region and I did not have to see SCE crushed by latest armies.

Although that also means SCE will not have their new battletome soon. Assuming if the GW rules design team is actually aware of the sorry state of SCE.

Speaking of which, is anti SCE sentiment still significant nowadays? Because at this point it would be almost impossible to hate(if not pity) SCE after seeing how they perform.

Edited by Sagittarii Orientalis
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Although I agree whole-heartedly on the state of Stormcast as a whole, I would feel bad if I didn't point out that I've been playing with a Hammers of Sigmar army for quite a while now, and I can definitely make them work to a point where  I'm never a pushover in my local hobby group. It is possible to build a competent list without Anvils.

My issue with SCE has more to do with the fact that because the army is so unforgiving, there's really no room for error or mistakes with them. If you build a good list and you're a good commander and luck is on your side you can do alright with them. But you have to know both your army and your opponent's army extremely well. There's no such think as YOLO'ing it. And I do think that's a problem because it makes them definitely not a "beginner" army. The learning curve is too steep and potential for failure is too high. But you can at least build a decent army out of what's there. You can make the book work. Of course I want improvements, and of course I agree that the state they are in is pretty bad. But if you work with the army long enough, you can get them to sort of work. There's enough good things in the book to keep them from being total trash.

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I am also wondering if the stormcast hate is still as strong as it was.  It really is quite sad how bad stormcast are, and if GW really is too scared of the haters to improve them....thats pretty crappy.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

Although I agree whole-heartedly on the state of Stormcast as a whole, I would feel bad if I didn't point out that I've been playing with a Hammers of Sigmar army for quite a while now, and I can definitely make them work to a point where  I'm never a pushover in my local hobby group. It is possible to build a competent list without Anvils.

My issue with SCE has more to do with the fact that because the army is so unforgiving, there's really no room for error or mistakes with them. If you build a good list and you're a good commander and luck is on your side you can do alright with them. But you have to know both your army and your opponent's army extremely well. There's no such think as YOLO'ing it. And I do think that's a problem because it makes them definitely not a "beginner" army. The learning curve is too steep and potential for failure is too high. But you can at least build a decent army out of what's there. You can make the book work. Of course I want improvements, and of course I agree that the state they are in is pretty bad. But if you work with the army long enough, you can get them to sort of work. There's enough good things in the book to keep them from being total trash.

I'll always remember the time when i deep striked with gavriel (120) 6 evo  celestial dracoline (520) and a lord arcanum on dracoline (260) for a total of almost full buffed on charge 1000pt, got wrecked by 30 battleline mortked guard (3+save rerollable, extra save 6+, 2+ 3+ rend -2)

i kill 7 (3 respowned thanks to katakros)  of them, he almoest wipes my units and the lord arcanum

****** hit my souls

Also, why there is this SCE hate meme? seriusly i undertand the hate on space marine because the are GW's spolied firstborn child, but SCE dont get near by a mile the support SM get

Edited by Yondaime
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18 hours ago, PJetski said:

The best units in a Stormcast army right now are Salamanders and Lord Kroak.

I don't think they can do much to fix it with points, because they would have to slash almost everything down by 20% to make this army competitive. The knockdown effect of that is Stormcast bringing a lot more bodies to the table... which doesn't seem to fit with the idea of what this army ought to be doing.

The main issues I see are threefold

1. The allegiance abilities suck! The artefacts are junk, the spell lore is underwhelming, all the subfactions are just terrible. Anvils is the only good one, and it has been power crept hard.

2. The warscrolls are out of date. An elite army shouldn't have basic troops with a 4+ save and no rend on their attacks, and general type heroes with only 5 wounds. Even the newer units are underwhelming - Wizards with no casting bonuses, overpriced battleline and the worst shooting unit in the game (Castigators). The battalions are all trash, too.

3. Too many overpriced heroes that don't do much. There is very little synergy between units, and what is there is generally not worthwhile. Even as combat heroes Stormcast are underwhelming - the wizard heroes do more melee damage than the non-wizards!

Though I am extremely pessimistic about the state of Stormcast and think they need a new book, I would like to see the following point changes in the meantime:

  • Point changes
    • Strike Chamber
      • Celestant Prime 340 > 280
      • Castellant 120 > 100
      • Celestant 100 > 80
      • Celestant on Dracoth  220 > 180
      • Relictor 100 > 90
      • Veritant 120 > 110
      • Questor 100 > 80
      • Venator 120 > 100
      • Vexillor 120 > 100
      • Liberators 100/520 > 80
      • Judicators 160 > 140
      • Prosecutors 90 > 80
      • Decimators 180 > 150
      • Retributors 200 > 160
      • Protectors 180 > 150
    • Extremis Chamber
      • Drakesworn Templar 420 > 380
      • Celestant on Stardrake 500 > 420
      • Concussors 240 > 220
      • Fulminators 240 > 220
      • Tempestors 200 > 180
    • Vanguard Chamber
      • Aquilor 180 > 160
      • Hunters 110 > 100
      • Gryph-Hounds 140 > 120
    • Sacrosanct Chamber
      • Aventis 340 > 300
      • Arcanum 160 > 140
      • Arcanum on Tauralon 320 > 260
      • Arcanum on Dracoline 220 > 200
      • Arcanum on Gryph-Charger 220 > 200
      • Exorcist 120 > 100
      • Ordinator 140 > 120
      • Sequitors 130/440 > 110
      • Evocators 220 > 200
      • Castigators 80 per 3 to 100 per 6
      • Ballista 110 > 100
      • Dais Arcanum 30 > 20
      • Celestian Vortex 40 > 30
      • Everblaze Comet 100 > 80
  • Role changes
    • Hunters battleline in Stormcast army
    • Palladors battleline if your general is a Lord-Aquilor
    • Prosecutors battleline in Stormcast army
    • Retributors battleline if your general is a LORD-CELESTANT
    • Tempestors battleline if your general is a STARDRAKE or DRACOTH

These are significant changes across the board, but I think it's warranted because so many Stormcast units range from underperforming to downright awful.

Haha basically make it an horde army 😂

if anything this indicates the only true solution is a updated book. Which I’m all for. 

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