AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[ledha]

Lord veritant with spellshield is two unbind with +3 per turn. I think he will see more playtime now

[Mrmattywoodz]

30 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Sounds nice! But the Ordinator is not really worth it with less than three Ballistas. What about 3 Hurricane Raptors instead? Or a Lord-Veritant for unbind+prayer?

I Disagree. I have been running him with two ballistas for about 8 games now,  and he has been amazing.

[PJetski]

10 minutes ago, ledha said:

Lord veritant with spellshield is two unbind with +3 per turn. I think he will see more playtime now

Assuming you can get a gryph hound in range of the wizard casting the spell.

I'm not sure that artifact is worth taking, given how many powerful artifacts we can use and how many other ways we have to unbind.

Edited July 9, 2018 by PJetski

[Lord_Orzhov]

So i was wondering, how much is everyone investing in magic? in terms of how many casters/endless spells and others sources for unbinds, personally i am running double incantor with cogs, geminids and comet although thats like a quarter of my list invested in magic. So what different approaches have you peeps  have taken in their sc magic. Thoughts?

[mystycalchemy]

12 minutes ago, Lord_Orzhov said:

So i was wondering, how much is everyone investing in magic? in terms of how many casters/endless spells and others sources for unbinds, personally i am running double incantor with cogs, geminids and comet although thats like a quarter of my list invested in magic. So what different approaches have you peeps  have taken in their sc magic. Thoughts?

Basically every SCE list I've made since 2nd edition has had at least a Lord-Arcanum and 1 Knight-Incantor, though I'm running 2 Incantors more often

[Aydwen]

Hi all, long post following

 

  Having get a closer look in our new book, and given the ''minor'' changes in a lot of our old warscrolls, I must admit that I have mixed feelings. We all expected  Sacrosanct models to be good, but ''micro-nerfs'' to a good number of our old units just seems frustrating-at best. Some examples: a) Paladins did nothing to deserve a nerf to Starsoul Mace,-even a minor-one , but nerf nonetheless. b) I don't believe Celestant (on foot) was so OP in order to warrant a nerf in his CA - must be within 3'' of enemy,  as of now. c)Fulmi's shooting.. Ok, I can see the hate from other armies/players toward Fulminators, but to be honest, it was maybe our only reliable melee hard hitter unit. And it wasn't a cheap-one. Yes, their Dracoth's Blast was powerful, but replacing  it with the mediocre-one and NOT reducing their pts ...well, seems kinda odd. d) Enjoying the new CA of Ordinator..?? For I know that i'm not. I mean, the model didn't even have a chance to be fielded with his previous command... and replacing it with not even a relevant-one (to his previous).

  All this and a few others, are the reasons that i'm not THAT satisfied with our new book. ''It could be worse'' someone said, yeah, well, I guess I must be thankful for getting a proper allegiance ability to begin with..  That, and not changing LCoSD  warscroll.. 

 

  As far as list-building goes with the new book, and having a couple of games with new edition(endless spells and free summoning inc),  I can't justify any SC non-character unit anymore-with a really few exceptions,  barring Battlelines of course. I will focus on character assassination builds, after all, there are a lot of armies out there that rely heavily on hero support. Also , the prospect of playing vs LoN-the army that benefited the MOST from the edition/endless spells/free summon imo, is disheartening at best as of now.  So, a first draught for the next couple of months will be something like, :

 

*HEROES*

LCoSD

Prime

Castellant

Relictor

2x Incantor

 

*UNITS*

5x Judicators

5x Judicators

5x Judicators

 

*ENDLESS SPELLS*

Everblaze Comet

Celestian Vortex

 

  Not entirely sold on  the second Incantor, neither Vortex, I just want to  give it a try. Possible candidates are either Heraldor or Venator.  I will not include Malign Sorcery Endless despite the fact that I have the set,  'cause I find them borderline overpowered and in need of serious pt increase (if not nerf-hammering). The one and only time that a fielded Cogs and Geminids ,well, they gave me the game vs Pestillens/Skryre. I can't say anything about Cogs(it's a true Azyr spell after all ),but Geminids are really unbalanced ,both for their effect and their pt.

 

My take anyway.

 

 

Feel free to comment anything,

Cheers                                           

 

 

 

[Richelieu]

10 minutes ago, Lord_Orzhov said:

So i was wondering, how much is everyone investing in magic? in terms of how many casters/endless spells and others sources for unbinds, personally i am running double incantor with cogs, geminids and comet although thats like a quarter of my list invested in magic. So what different approaches have you peeps  have taken in their sc magic. Thoughts?

I would consider running those with the wizard battalion and staff artifact and stardrake.  Otherwise I'm not investing heavily.  Incantor I love simply for the auto unbind.  Cogs I would only run if I was running a storm host other than Hammers of Sigmar, and even then I'm not sure it's worth it without a wizard who has a good chance of casting it.  7+ is only 58% success rate.

[mmmbbb3]

I played a game recently using the anvils of Heldenhammer. They worked really well, with the soulstealer artifact even removing the last wound from a bloodthirster and the command ability making it so that my ballista killed off skarbrand with it's second volley. I think the command ability can do the same as lordinater could before the nerf, but better.

[Shinzra]

Would you guys recommend Vanguard Palladors in a squad of 6 or 2 units of 3?

[Kadanga]

7 minutes ago, Shinzra said:

Would you guys recommend Vanguard Palladors in a squad of 6 or 2 units of 3?

Depends on what you are bringing them for. If you want them to ninja grab objectives I'd go with 2x3 but if you want a fast meatshield I'd go with 1x6.

[Draviticus]

1 hour ago, Lord_Orzhov said:

So i was wondering, how much is everyone investing in magic? in terms of how many casters/endless spells and others sources for unbinds, personally i am running double incantor with cogs, geminids and comet although thats like a quarter of my list invested in magic. So what different approaches have you peeps  have taken in their sc magic. Thoughts?

I'm going absolutely nuts, but I think that is because it's been 2 years since I've had any significant amount of casting potential in my army and I'm overdosing. This list is what I mean and it is ludicrous. The Incantor with the Staff of Focus has a +4 to cast the turn she cracks it. The Endless spells list is a variable 180pts. this is just the last list I used.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Portents and Omens 
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Lord-Exorcist (140)
- Spell: Stormcaller
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Lighntning Blast
Drakesworn Templar (460)
- Arc Hammer
- Artefact: Hammers of Aurgury 
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Evocators (200)
Grand Convocation (130)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 83
 

[DanielFM]

2 hours ago, Mrmattywoodz said:

I Disagree. I have been running him with two ballistas for about 8 games now,  and he has been amazing.

Numbers have been run, and three ballistas are better than 2+Ordinator. Anecdotal evidence won't change that.

[Carnelian]

17 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Numbers have been run, and three ballistas are better than 2+Ordinator. Anecdotal evidence won't change that.

Ordinator is a hero so can be equipped with a useful artefact and can score in some missions where a ballista can't so there's that to consider too

[PJetski]

47 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Numbers have been run, and three ballistas are better than 2+Ordinator. Anecdotal evidence won't change that.

Ordinator aura doesn't stack.

It's also worth noting there are a few battalions that involve bringing a single ballista, which raises the value of the Ordinator.

[DanielFM]

6 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Ordinator aura doesn't stack.

It's also worth noting there are a few battalions that involve bringing a single ballista, which raises the value of the Ordinator.

I meant two Ballistas + an Ordinator.

What disallows you to bring a Ballista in the battalion then other outside?

[PJetski]

5 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

I meant two Ballistas + an Ordinator.

What disallows you to bring a Ballista in the battalion then other outside?

Nothing

I'm saying that the battalions only buff a single ballista, which raises the value of the Ordinator in the Ordinator vs Another Ballista discussion

[Kadanga]

3 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Nothing

I'm saying that the battalions only buff a single ballista, which raises the value of the Ordinator in the Ordinator vs Another Ballista discussion

The hailstorm battallion is a lie.
Rerolling failed hits after something has been wounded by castigators with an ordinator tax. It's minimum 340 points.
It's more efficent to just spend all the points on more ballistas as: more shots > rerolls.

[PJetski]

6 minutes ago, Kadanga said:

The hailstorm battallion is a lie.
Rerolling failed hits after something has been wounded by castigators with an ordinator tax. It's minimum 340 points.
It's more efficent to just spend all the points on more ballistas as: more shots > rerolls.

There's also the Soulstrike Brotherhood that includes a Ballista.

And it's not necessarily true that a ballista is always better than an ordinator. It depends on what you are going to do with those 40 points. It also depends what buffs you have available for the ballistas - being able to reroll hits, or have +1 attack changes the relative value equations.

There are also hard limits on Artillery and Leaders that need to be considered, and game modes besides Battlehost Matched Play. In a Vanguard game you can only take 2 Ballistas, and an Ordinator adds a lot of value there.

[Freejack02]

4 hours ago, Mrmattywoodz said:

I Disagree. I have been running him with two ballistas for about 8 games now,  and he has been amazing.

The point is that, for his 140 cost, you would get more damage out of a 3rd ballista (and save 40 points in the process). 

[ledha]

Guys, something i don't understand about Evocators

Their warscroll say they can only use their personnal spell (Essor in french, don't know the english one)

The battletome have a list of spells, two domain, one of the storm and the other of invigoration

Under the domain of the storm, it is precised it can't be taken by Evocators. Ok, fine. But the invigoration don't say this. So it imply Evocators could take those spells (if not, why specifically say they can't take spells from the other domain ?)... but they can't use them anyway because of their warscroll !!

Did GW messed it up again or did i missed a subtility here ?

Edited July 9, 2018 by ledha

[Kadanga]

49 minutes ago, PJetski said:

There's also the Soulstrike Brotherhood that includes a Ballista.

And it's not necessarily true that a ballista is always better than an ordinator. It depends on what you are going to do with those 40 points. It also depends what buffs you have available for the ballistas - being able to reroll hits, or have +1 attack changes the relative value equations.

There are also hard limits on Artillery and Leaders that need to be considered, and game modes besides Battlehost Matched Play. In a Vanguard game you can only take 2 Ballistas, and an Ordinator adds a lot of value there.

The soulstrike is arguably even worse than the hailstorm (if you are using it primarily for the ballista buff). 1 extra attack on a ballista is nothing (again, for the price), tho it is quite substantial on an a group of 9+ Castigators. 

That said I get the point you are trying to make, it's not all black and white. I just want to make clear that even in the battallions, more ballistas come out on top of an Ordinator. 

btw you can actually run 8 ballistas at 2000 points since you can ally in Stormcasts  and amount of artillery isn't limited by allies (Or are they?), and they are still buffable by an Ordinator. (Please pm me if anyone actually does this ❤️ )

Edited July 9, 2018 by Kadanga
Doubt about allies

[Galamund]

Hey all, not sure if there is a specific thread for SCE lists but since this is the main discussion of our golden heroes I thought I’d post here. I wanted to share a list I’ve run a few times with a fair bit of success, including a few solid smashings of the enemy that made me feel a lot better about this book.  I’ve seen a few other posters online with roughly similar lists, so I’m curious if I’m on the right track and want your insights. It focuses around our new units:

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger with Soul Thief (Anvils compulsory relic ewww)
Lord-Castellant with Lens of Refraction
Knight-Incantor
20 Sequitors, 9 Greatmaces
5 Sequitors, 3 Greatmaces
5 Sequitors, 3 Greatmaces
5 Evocators
5 Evocators
Celestar Ballista
Celestar Ballista
Everblaze Comet
Cleansing Phalanx Battalion

1940/2000

It’s 7 drops, and deploys with the 2 small units of Sequitors and Ballista in the realm of heavens. I keep the unit of 20 Sequitors around the heroes to prevent Endless Spells being placed in amongst my deathball and run them forward with the 2x5 Evocators.

I can buff the Sequitors up to 3+/reroll1s to shooting, ignoring each cast of d3 magic MWs via the Lens. For a CP, I can make one of the Evocators auto-cast an undispellable Empower on the Sequitors, making them re-roll hits, wounds and saves for a turn. For another CP, I can make them all attack again in the hero phase. The 11 dudes with Mauls are meatshields for the 9 Sequitors with the Greatmaces. 19x 3+/3+/-1/D2 with full rerolls, who absolutely wreck anything it can get up to.

Aside from that, the small 5 man Sequitors deepstrike to tie up shooting units or hunt small units that are far away. The 2 Ballistae deepstrike as needed, either onto objectives (ideally in cover) or to blast something close up.

I start with 2 CP so I can always use one for Inspiring Presence on the 20 Sequitors in an emergency, or can re-roll a charge if needed.

The three heroes compliment each other really well: The LAoGC and KI provide redundancy for casting the Everblaze, and the Castellant is a really points-efficient “bodyguard” and buffing hero.

ALL GLORY TO SIGMAR!

 

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Galamund

[Freejack02]

28 minutes ago, Galamund said:

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger with Soul Thief (Anvils compulsory relic ewww)
Lord-Castellant with Lens of Refraction
Knight-Incantor
20 Sequitors, 9 Greatmaces
5 Sequitors, 3 Greatmaces
5 Sequitors, 3 Greatmaces
5 Evocators
5 Evocators
Celestar Ballista
Celestar Ballista
Everblaze Comet
Cleansing Phalanx Battalion

1940/2000

I think this (or something very similar) is going to become one of our primary lists going forward - it seems quite efficient and is nearly identical to what I am going to field (swap a 5 Seq for 5 Jud).  Glad to hear it's doing well for you!

[Galamund]

I should add, I run them as Anvils of Heldenhammer. I hate losing Staunch Defender and Mirrorshield, but I find the Castellant mitigates the loss of the Command Trait somewhat and being able to attack twice with the buffed-up 20-man of Sequitors is bonkers. They utterly massacre units of light and medium infantry and with full re-rolls the 9 Greatmaces can threaten even the biggest of monsters. It's a CP-hungry list though, obviously.

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Kadanga said:

The soulstrike is arguably even worse than the hailstorm (if you are using it primarily for the ballista buff). 1 extra attack on a ballista is nothing (again, for the price), tho it is quite substantial on an a group of 9+ Castigators. 

That said I get the point you are trying to make, it's not all black and white. I just want to make clear that even in the battallions, more ballistas come out on top of an Ordinator. 

btw you can actually run 8 ballistas at 2000 points since you can ally in Stormcasts  and amount of artillery isn't limited by allies (Or are they?), and they are still buffable by an Ordinator. (Please pm me if anyone actually does this ❤️ )

Allies count towards your maximum Leaders, Behemoths, and Artillery, but can't count as your battleline.