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AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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From the core rules FAQ:

Quote

Q: The core/matched play rules say that allies cannot use or benefit from allegiance abilities. There seems to be quite a number of situations where the question of what ‘benefit from’ means. Could you explain please?

A: Certainly. It means that battle traits do not apply to and cannot be used by allied units. In addition, it means that allied units cannot receive allegiance abilities that you choose (or roll for) for certain types of unit in your army, such as command traits, artefacts of power or spells from spell lores. Note that, in the second case, allied units can be affected by such allegiance abilities when they are used (or would otherwise take effect) during the battle, as long as no other restrictions apply. For example, you could not choose an allied Wizard to know a spell from a spell lore, but an allied unit could be affected by the spell if it was cast. In addition, any scenery rules for faction-specific terrain features apply to allied units during the battle.

My interpretation of this rule means that Scions of the Storm applies to Stormcast Eternals units only. If Allies could be used to put more SCE units in the sky, that would fall under the blanket of allies "benefitting" from an allegience ability, albeit indirectly, but still.

I've never played it any other way.

I also interpret the Scions of the Storm wording to basically preface that everything it's talking about applies to Stormcast Eternals units only. So when it refers to units anywhere else in the text, there's an assumed and unwritten "stormcast eternals" adjective before every instance of the word unit.

Worded a different way, it would look like this:

Quote

Instead of setting up a STORMCAST ETERNAL unit on the battlefield, you can place it to one side and say that it is set up in the Celestial Realm as a reserve STORMCAST ETERNAL unit. You can set up one reserve STORMCAST ETERNAL unit in the Celestial Realm for each STORMCAST ETERNAL unit you have set up on the battlefield. At the end of your movement phase, you can set up one or more of the reserve STORMCAST ETERNAL units in the Celestial Realm on the battlefield, more than 9" from any enemy units. Any reserve STORMCAST ETERNAL units in the Celestial Realm that are not set up on the battlefield before the start of the fourth battle round are slain.

I believe there's enough precedence between what's written in the core rules and the FAQ to point to the fact that the one use of the "STORMCAST ETERNAL" keyword at the top of the description applies to every mention of the word "unit" that follows.

But yes, I'll agree it could have been written more clearly so as to remove any discussion...

 

Edited by Mark Williams
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40 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

From the core rules FAQ:

My interpretation of this rule means that Scions of the Storm applies to Stormcast Eternals units only. If Allies could be used to put more SCE units in the sky, that would fall under the blanket of allies "benefitting" from an allegience ability, albeit indirectly, but still.

I've never played it any other way.

I also interpret the Scions of the Storm wording to basically preface that everything it's talking about applies to Stormcast Eternals units only. So when it refers to units anywhere else in the text, there's an assumed and unwritten "stormcast eternals" adjective before every instance of the word unit.

Worded a different way, it would look like this:

I believe there's enough precedence between what's written in the core rules and the FAQ to point to the fact that the one use of the "STORMCAST ETERNAL" keyword at the top of the description applies to every mention of the word "unit" that follows.

But yes, I'll agree it could have been written more clearly so as to remove any discussion...

 

Thank you for your clarification. I see your point, and in general the impact of either option is relatively minor (one more unit in azyr at best) so that it's not worth arguing about this if it comes up in a game.

Personally, unless my opponent raises the issue, I would still play it by counting allied units on the battlefield. Lacking a specific errata, the wording of the rule seems clear and I believe that your interepretation stretches that "benefitting" too much -it's the stormcast units that "benefit" from their presence, the benefit for allied units is so indirect (they benefit because their army is "stronger") that such an interpretation would just cover every application of every allegiance trait.

Then again, it's a minor thing, I would be ok in playing either way.

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3 hours ago, The World Tree said:

Speaking of Scions, did we ever land on whether a Gryph Hound and its owner (Castellant/Veritant) count as two separate units for Scions? I never did so but played others who did. i can see the logic it just felt wrong to me.

doggo can come into play when owner is set-up. So it’s not counting to your lists units for scions, because he isn’t existing yet :)
 

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6 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

doggo can come into play when owner is set-up. So it’s not counting to your lists units for scions, because he isn’t existing yet :)
 

Again, maybe I am not seeing something obvious (absolutely possible), but: when you set up the celestant/veritant you also set up another unit (the gryph hound) so afterwards I would say this counts towards scions?

"you can set up one reserve unit in the Celestial Realm for each unit you have set up on the battlefield" (no reference to your army list)

So: you start deployment, deploy the castellant, immediately also deploy "a GRYPH-HOUND unit consisting of a single model to the battlefield", then you deploy your second unit in azy, then also your third and you are still good (two units having been set up on the battlefield)

(yeah, slow morning at work :D )
 

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3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Again, maybe I am not seeing something obvious (absolutely possible), but: when you set up the celestant/veritant you also set up another unit (the gryph hound) so afterwards I would say this counts towards scions?

"you can set up one reserve unit in the Celestial Realm for each unit you have set up on the battlefield" (no reference to your army list)

So: you start deployment, deploy the castellant, immediately also deploy "a GRYPH-HOUND unit consisting of a single model to the battlefield", then you deploy your second unit in azy, then also your third and you are still good (two units having been set up on the battlefield)

(yeah, slow morning at work :D )
 

Hmm that makes me doubt my own version. I never considered doggo legal for scions but now kinda makes sense 😬😂

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22 hours ago, Combat Wombat said:

Hey guys! Looking for some input on this list for a tournament coming up. I generally don’t play shootcast just because I’m not a fan but know they are really the only competitive way to play them. Made this list up and wanted to do some tweaking and see what the hive mind thought

Raptors%20and%20evo.pdf 798.05 kB · 14 downloads

Its not bad at all , id def try out this variation. I personally find the C Prime a little overcosted and fragile but id play this in a local tournament just for the fun of it

 

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Heyho,

small tournament recap. Attended Prague GT last weekend, went 3-2. Overall super satisfied with the result - my goal was 1-4 maybe 2-3 . Had a great time there and met a lot of awesome people.  Only downside, we were 4 people and 3 got sick - I am the only one left which still feels Ok - maybe nurgle did his thing but I fnp'ed?

I played shootcast with Castellant instead of 2nd Incantor. Was aiming for triumphs - which worked great.

G1 against KO - Battle for the pass: Was like, yeah he will shoot me of the board and I kinda threw the game in my mind already before it even started... - first time I encountered the psychological side of the game :D . He did in fact shoot me of the board, but my Raptors and Evocators in deepstrike made me win it 30-26 on points with 2 Evos left... :) Awesome game, full 3 hours / 5 rounds.

G2 against Tzeenth Tzangors on Disc - Duality of death: No Idea what I was facing, I alphastriked my Evos, made the charge on the reroll and took out his left flank. Raptors also came in shot a hero , but I misplaced them a little so his right flank kinda reached them faster than I would have liked. Won on points however but was super tight.

G3 against LoN - The one were you win when you get all T3 or kill-points if both have same: Stalemate the whole game , Won on VP 600-400 . He was an ex 40k player and I have never seen such great screening.  Great game though. I need to train how to deal with that situation.

G4 against Nurgle - Focal points: This is where I messed up super hard. He left his left flank super wide open with only a few Plaguebearers for the objective, and instead of going in T1 to apply max pressure I kept my Evos too long in reserve and yeah, lost on points :( I also dealt 14 wound to the Glotkin in 1 go of shooting put didn't follow through :/ . Loss  That game clearly showed my lack of playing experience.

G5 against Khorne 3BT - The one were you roll a D6 in T2 to see where your objective is:   Wanted a fast game, went all in T1, killed 2 BT. T2 teleport failed and then Raptors were gone. Loss. Also winnable but wanted to drive home with daylight :) 3 sick people and gf with kiddo waiting... 😆

My takeaways:

  • Need to learn to place raptors better and pre think the next 5 or so actions with them. 2 is not enough, poor brain.
  • Show no fear and be open for some gambling. Most people sh*t themselves when they see 10 Evos crashing on the board.edit: and they definitely throw up a little if you make the charge 😄
  • Aetherwings are just pure love
  • Glottkin can be squishy
  • 3+ rr1 Raptors can take some beating.
  • Incantor - mostly useless in my match-ups, although nice in the nurgle game. So still important.
  • MW still suck :D

So to sum it up, If you can reach Prague go there :)

Edited by schwabbele
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On 2/23/2020 at 1:57 PM, LordCelestant Imperius 1st said:

Hi all, 

Playing shootcast since a while, does anyone got a serious list with like 12 raptors with crossbows, and still 6 dracoths ? It seems that i'am not able to get it working fine.....Maybe i need adjustments on the classic anvil list!

Thanks!

Ive seen people play 9 Longstrike + 6 Desolator. Dracoths are really durable and have a cool shooting attack. It's pretty good, but I prefer running Dracolines or Evocators. You will still be bringing 3x5 Liberator and 2+ units of Aetherwings so you don't necessarily need the durability of Dracoths, and they are quite expensive (especially since you need to bring a Castellant)

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Hello.

Im going to play a small lokal turnement next weekend.

what im running:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

LEADERS

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (220) What artifact, spells and so on.?

General Lord-Ordinator (140)

Lord-Castellant (120)

UNITS

10 x Sequitors (260) - Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 6 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

10 x Sequitors (260) - Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields - 6 x Stormsmite Greatmaces

5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1 x Grandhammers

5 x Evocators (220) - 5 x Grandstaves What Lore of Invigoration?

5 x Evocators (220) - 5 x Grandstaves What Lore of Invigoration?

1 x Celestar Ballista (110)

1 x Celestar Ballista (110)

1 x Celestar Ballista (110)

BATTALIONS

Cleansing Phalanx (120)

TOTAL: 1990/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 119

 

I have a Knight-Azyros and a Gotrek Gurnisson 5 more liberators and a lord-relictor.

Could i mix it better? 

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5 hours ago, xking said:

So Pjetski, are you going to play star lizards when the book come out?

I'm definitely going to start playing AOS again, but I don't like the way the game has been developing since 2.0 launched so I don't know if it will hold my interest for as long as it did before.

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9 hours ago, PJetski said:

I'm definitely going to start playing AOS again, but I don't like the way the game has been developing since 2.0 launched so I don't know if it will hold my interest for as long as it did before.

Im actually shelving my SCE after adepticon, the monotonous play style is just boring and its  taken me out of wanting to paint my sce debt pile

gonna run some DoK seems more fun

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34 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

Im actually shelving my SCE after adepticon, the monotonous play style is just boring and its  taken me out of wanting to paint my sce debt pile

gonna run some DoK seems more fun

Same here. Mine are on the shelf until a new book comes out. Having fun with Tzeentch and Nighthaunt right now. 

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3 hours ago, jhamslam said:

Im actually shelving my SCE after adepticon, the monotonous play style is just boring and its  taken me out of wanting to paint my sce debt pile

I feel you. Gave most of my pile to a commission, which allows me to start the stardrake and my CoS project. Will switch to narrative games with SCE when I get them back. The tourney was super fun but also quite taxing, the amount of focus you need with shootcast is enormous, I don't wanna have that in my friendly games anymore :D 

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1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Does "run forward with 3x30 witches" sound like fun to you? :P

lmao youre not wrong, but ive been pleasantly surprised with DoK lists as of LVO. Theyre not just Morathi Slaughter Queen all witches now.  Theyre starting to ally in incantors, shadow warriors, scourgerunner chariots etc Bringing in blood sisters as evocator lite instead of morathi.

Im an order/death player, so i was debating DoK or fyreslayers. Fyreslayers seemed even more boring, just 50 HB with foot heroes and that one lord of the lodge battalion.

 

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Unfortunately I don't have the space or the money to switch from SCE, so once I buy some of the new Lumineth that's basically it for me minus small stuff like warbands... narrative/skirmish style games I'm sure are less taxing and more chill fun though so we'll see how that goes

Edited by CommissarRotke
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15 minutes ago, Andrethegreat said:

I'm new to AOS, what do GW need to fix when it comes to SCE? 

The Battletome/Warscrolls are pretty objectively in need of an overhaul.

Yes, there are a few good units in the tome, but honestly people are really only using maybe 20% of the total unit options available, and that is largely due to many of them not really changing since Age of Sigmar's initial release... over 5 years ago.
 

PJetski started a whole thread about gathering ideas for changes to bring the army's rules in line with other armies. It's called the:

 
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1 hour ago, Andrethegreat said:

I'm new to AOS, what do GW need to fix when it comes to SCE? 

Our Battletome is objectively mostly terrible compared to everything that was released after it. Nighthaunt has the same issue. The battalions/artifacts are hot garbage and the most of the warscrolls are relics of AoS 1.0. Very low synergy between units, squishy heroes, bad battleline, low damage for everything that's not shooting, low volume of attacks for pretty much all units, units that are utterly worthless (Castigators), etc. 

In short, we're supposed to be elite to make up for bringing much fewer bodies, but SCE are nowhere near that. The rules favor lots of bodies and super heavy hitters that are tanky. We have none of that.

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1 hour ago, Sleepa said:

The Battletome/Warscrolls are pretty objectively in need of an overhaul.

Yes, there are a few good units in the tome, but honestly people are really only using maybe 20% of the total unit options available, and that is largely due to many of them not really changing since Age of Sigmar's initial release... over 5 years ago.
 

PJetski started a whole thread about gathering ideas for changes to bring the army's rules in line with other armies. It's called the:

 

 

54 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

Our Battletome is objectively mostly terrible compared to everything that was released after it. Nighthaunt has the same issue. The battalions/artifacts are hot garbage and the most of the warscrolls are relics of AoS 1.0. Very low synergy between units, squishy heroes, bad battleline, low damage for everything that's not shooting, low volume of attacks for pretty much all units, units that are utterly worthless (Castigators), etc. 

In short, we're supposed to be elite to make up for bringing much fewer bodies, but SCE are nowhere near that. The rules favor lots of bodies and super heavy hitters that are tanky. We have none of that.

Is there something we can do as players or do we have to wait for GW? 

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