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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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Is it viable to run a vanguard list at 1k or is it better to mix and match other units ? 

1K seems really hard to build with Stormcast given how little bodies we have.

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That all sounds like a trap. Way too many points invested in one unit.

I've done really well with them with just a heraldor.

Their job is to hit something hard with a long threat range. They're not a defensive unit.

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I don't think it is necessary to stack things to improve the defence of EVO on dracoline if you stack things to improve its damage output considerably already. EVO on dracoline is an upgraded version of EVO on foot from my point of view, so will you stack a lot buff to improve the EVO's defence?  In most cases, if you can delete or  severely wounded the enemy unit able to attack you, you don't need to worry too much about its fight back. 

By the way, the pride leader is "Add 1 to hits rolls for attacks made by friendly dracoline units while they are wholly within 9" of this model", although I think gw means add 1 to hit rolls for claws, but from this description alone, it seems to me that the grandstave is also affected.

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16 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

I don't think it is necessary to stack things to improve the defence of EVO on dracoline if you stack things to improve its damage output considerably already. EVO on dracoline is an upgraded version of EVO on foot from my point of view, so will you stack a lot buff to improve the EVO's defence?  In most cases, if you can delete or  severely wounded the enemy unit able to attack you, you don't need to worry too much about its fight back. 

By the way, the pride leader is "Add 1 to hits rolls for attacks made by friendly dracoline units while they are wholly within 9" of this model", although I think gw means add 1 to hit rolls for claws, but from this description alone, it seems to me that the grandstave is also affected.

Agree. They are a fast punchy unit. Just a heraldor and CV for +1 attacks is good to smash into almost anything then delete it.

If i want tanky calvary i would look at Fulminators

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Since the cogs go up to 80, it would take serious thoughts to include it in your list. Maybe cogs would be better with LA on Tauralon ?

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53 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

, it seems to me that the grandstave is also affected.

It is until GW explicitly words the rule that it isn't :)

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I've been debating over how to make changes to my cleansing phalanx lists. I'll post them below and if you guys could give me your opinions I would really appreciate it!

List 1:

LAoCG (general)

Lord ordinator 

Castellant 

Lord Relictor 

1x10 sequitors 

2x5 sequitors 

2x5 evocators

Cleansing phalanx 

3x ballistas 

Oooor list 2 that drops my ballistas but adds more bodies and support 

LAoGC (general 

Knight heraldor

Castellant 

Knight venator (help snipe)

1x10 sequitors 

2×5 sequitors (or I can make another 1x10 and have 2 heavy hitters in the cleansing phalanx)

2X5 judicators

2x5 evocators 

Cleansing phalanx

 

I really hate to lose the damage output from the ballistas however I like having the heraldor to be able to run and charge my 10 brick of sequitors on turn one while my 2x5s go for objectives...its a debacle... what do you guys think? I didn't put any host or artifacts cuzz that comes next!

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm currently testing this Anvilstrike Variation:

Avil Stormhost
Aquilor 180
-General, Soulthief
Relictor 100
-Translocation
Azyros 100
Incantor 140
-Chain Lightning
Spellweaver 100

2x 5x Libs 200
1x 5x Hunter 110

1x 9x Longstrikes 510
2x 3x Aetherwings 100

1x 5x Evocator 220 
1x 5x Seqs 130

1x Geminids 60
+50 CP
2000p // 112 Wounds

 

The Aquilor and the CP is last resort teleporting, basically my Vexilor. Instant "yoursafe", no questions asked.
I cringe rolling for a conditional teleport. ... that prayer. It feels like it's ever due for me to get translocation off. Luckily teleporting isn't the only win condition of this list, you can get by with good placement more often than not. But careful, you only pay for one Aquilor Teleport off the go. Very rarely you have a unused CP with this list, gotta think that through.  All in all, this makes the Longstrikes survive easily.

I also like fiddling the idea to swap seqs & geminids for Palladors. Then another option opens to snipe 5-8 Wnd Heros by flanking and charging 7" with Aquilor+Pallador now a mere 360p. The Aquilor CA is basically battlefield wide. You can always run Winds Aetheric beforehand, to catch the palladors in that 48" bubble, then trigger the CA.

I struggled against Tzeentch Changehost mass Horror and Skaven. How the F do we play against Skaven?? That faction is so damn annoying. What to even kill? Everything seems disposable, it's just so many.

I have a two day tournament coming up and want to take that Aquilor list or some variation below. I'm very undecided:
 

Avil Stormhost
Draco Arcanum 220
- General, Pride Leader, Soulthief, Celestial Blades
Relictor 100
- Translocation
Azyros 100
Incantor 140
- Chain Lightning
Spellweaver 100
Heraldor 100

2x 5x Libs 200
1x 5x Seqs 130

1x 9x Longstrikes 510
2x 3x Aetherwings 100

1x 3x Draco Evocator 300


2000p // 107 Wounds

 

Any suggestions or opinion welcome!

Edited by JaffaBones
Typo in unit size

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Posted (edited)

So i dont know where im going with this lol any help/suggestions to get this to a workable 2k? Edit: everything except for the EvoCats can be swapped/shuffled


- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- General
- Trait: Single-minded Fury 
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade 
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)

3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1520 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 9
Wounds: 81
 

Edited by Malakithe

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3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

So i dont know where im going with this lol any help/suggestions to get this to a workable 2k? Edit: everything except for the EvoCats can be swapped/shuffled


- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- General
- Trait: Single-minded Fury 
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade 
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)

3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1520 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 9
Wounds: 81
 

The lord ordinator doesn't break even on paying for himself until you have 3 ballista. So you could drop him and take a 3rd ballista, or you could drop the knight incator+comet for 2 more balista. 

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To get it to 2k, how about just adding 3 more EvoCats and another ballista? That should take you to 1930, so maybe a 20 points endless spell and 1 extra command point?

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Posted (edited)

How good/bad are Liberators with sword+shield? I have a Leena Stormspire and I'd like to run her as the Prime, since KQ statline doesn't look very appealing for their points.

Edited by CommissarRotke
clarification

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4 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

How good/bad are Liberators with sword/shield? I have a Leena Stormspire and I'd like to run her as the Prime, since KQ statline doesn't look very appealing for the points.

I use them as screens for my ballista or to hold something up in 5man squads. They actually did very good in a local tournament this weekend. They dont kill anything, but they hold the line against something that isnt a big ass hammer unit

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Lord Ein said:

 They dont kill anything, but they hold the line against something that isnt a big ass hammer unit

is this a general Liberator issue, or because they wound on 4s not 3s?

Edited by CommissarRotke
typo

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Just now, CommissarRotke said:

is this a general Liberator issue, or because they would on 4s not 3s?

Well, they are simply said an ok battleline. They are tanky with a 4+ save, 2 wounds and rerollable ones, have 4+/3+ with hammers and 3+/4+ with swords, which even gets better against anything with more than 5 Wounds (3+/3+ hammer and 2+/4+ swords). They can also take a a bigger weapon for a bit more punch.

This is all solid, but as soon as they get into contact with some enemy who have rend or multiwounds-damage, they can´t really hold as "tanks" for too long. Also they are vunerable to MW´s. On the other hand they lack the punch to really use them on offensive manners. Also they are slow. Therefore they can´t really do much work in your army most of the times. Sequitors have more punch, can be tankier with better rerolls and can wield more big weapons (1 in 3 instead of 1 in 5 + Champ)

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3s and 4s (or vice versa with hammers) and two attacks on a large base. You will never get many of them to attack without great charge rolls. Ut's the same thing with Sequitors, they only get either harder or more attacks per model.

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I already have 10 sequitors from Soul Wars, but I'd like some Liberators to be able to sub in if I need more points for other units. With these point changes Soul Wars feels much worse for the wear now...

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2 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I already have 10 sequitors from Soul Wars, but I'd like some Liberators to be able to sub in if I need more points for other units. With these point changes Soul Wars feels much worse for the wear now...

I’ve used sequitors and a judicator unit last year, but now at 130 pts I’m going back to my liberators unless I’m going 20 seq unit

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With sequitor rising to 130, sequitor becomes a upgraded version(no longer a substitution for liberators) from my opinion, if you just want a unit to sit on the objective, then liberator is enough already, it can hold off when the attacker is not very efficient. If you want a unit to do more, then you can consider switch to sequitor. However, with the points increase,  I prefer using the sequitors in big unit, like at least 10 per unit,  because a unit of 5 isn't much tanker than the liberator, especially if you take 3 greatmace to maximize damage output.

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Just played against Slaanesh. Pretty sure it was literally impossible to win that game if my opponent is anything other than a rock.

In round 1, he killed 49 wounds worth of models. I killed two keepers, and 10 wounds to the named keeper.

Then he summoned back two keepers.

14" move, then charge with fight-first damage 5 and 6 weapons with rend, then get back anything that dies. Yeah ok.

Too bad we can't beat anyone on drops.

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On 6/21/2019 at 10:24 PM, HammerOfSigmar said:

I think you underestimate the paws, on a successful charge with the LAoCD, nearby the paws gives 10 attack with 2+ 3+ -1 D3 each,   that's some pretty huge for me, you can further stack the empower and CV's command ability on it to make it more deadly.  

That is an insane amount of points you want to dump for CPs though

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Posted (edited)

Gristlegore and Slaanesh did become the easiest matchup for me. Please let's put our heads together and address the elephant in the room. How the f do we beat a player that understands positioning and unbind ranges as good as you and has gazillion bodies and movement to do so? I'm looking at you Tzeentch Changehost and Skaven.

 

The Stormcast pointdrops came different than expected for me.  Stardrake options are out at the moment. Gavbomb only worked against mediocre players or people who didn't have experience with it, don't mind the raise. Every competitive Stardrake list I took to past  tournaments is now over 2000p. I planned on some Paladin heavy army, but the drops here are too few and get shut down by the new meta. The only way I see as of right now, until I come up with something different, is going more Anvilstrike heavy with vanguard support. Many of the new Battleplans have changed in a way, that it will in many cases allow you to flank and occupy an objective ('come in ww/ 6" outside of 7" ') even ones where only Battleline/hero can hold points (people will appreciate 1x5x hunter more).

I now that consensus is that harassment does not work well in the actual meta, and it doesn't with all the hordes that have jolly monsters/inane mw output from spells/endless ... but I'm not very sure if that is still true going into the next months. More objectives are now more far away from eachother, giving opportunity of mistakes, in which  Aquilor+Hunter or Aquilor+Palladors can snatch a turn (sometimes even without a charge) and disappear. The cost to do so is lower than before and synergyzes well with Anvilstrike. Basically, to feel a relief from the point drops, you're forced to go a little more vanguard.

As of right now my Club is even more convinced about how bad Stormcast is, but that makes every podium place on a tournament so much sweeter. I feel like I can outplay everything except skaven/Tzeentch. They just take the whole board and I have no place to teleport/deepstrike/flank. And can't reach fatal priority kills like Lord of change for example. Besides, most of they're important magic has a bigger threatrange than unbind range. So my two auto-unbinds are worth less a little.

Edited by JaffaBones
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3 hours ago, JaffaBones said:

Gristlegore and Slaanesh did become the easiest matchup for me. Please let's put our heads together and address the elephant in the room. How the f do we beat a player that understands positioning and unbind ranges as good as you and has gazillion bodies and movement to do so? I'm looking at you Tzeentch Changehost and Skaven.

 

The Stormcast pointdrops came different than expected for me.  Stardrake options are out at the moment. Gavbomb only worked against mediocre players or people who didn't have experience with it, don't mind the raise. Every competitive Stardrake list I took to past  tournaments is now over 2000p. I planned on some Paladin heavy army, but the drops here are too few and get shut down by the new meta. The only way I see as of right now, until I come up with something different, is going more Anvilstrike heavy with vanguard support. Many of the new Battleplans have changed in a way, that it will in many cases allow you to flank and occupy an objective ('come in ww/ 6" outside of 7" ') even ones where only Battleline/hero can hold points (people will appreciate 1x5x hunter more).

I now that consensus is that harassment does not work well in the actual meta, and it doesn't with all the hordes that have jolly monsters/inane mw output from spells/endless ... but I'm not very sure if that is still true going into the next months. More objectives are now more far away from eachother, giving opportunity of mistakes, in which  Aquilor+Hunter or Aquilor+Palladors can snatch a turn (sometimes even without a charge) and disappear. The cost to do so is lower than before and synergyzes well with Anvilstrike. Basically, to feel a relief from the point drops, you're forced to go a little more vanguard.

As of right now my Club is even more convinced about how bad Stormcast is, but that makes every podium place on a tournament so much sweeter. I feel like I can outplay everything except skaven/Tzeentch. They just take the whole board and I have no place to teleport/deepstrike/flank. And can't reach fatal priority kills like Lord of change for example. Besides, most of they're important magic has a bigger threatrange than unbind range. So my two auto-unbinds are worth less a little.

Haven’t got my copy yet - what battleplan changes encourage mobility?

NB I had a feeling that Palladors, Prosecutors and Hunters might be the quiet winners of GHB19. I’m even looking at Castigators again for their ability to drop out of the sky with 6 shots  followed up by 12 attacks to steal objectives.

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Posted (edited)

All those factions mentioned, except Tzeentch, will get hit within a couple weeks. GW already said their points adjustments are coming in july. 

Predictions are gristlegore gets stomped down. Skaven bs get reigned in via increase to Verminlords and guns. The terrain rules already mess with them. No idea about slaanesh. Fyreslayers will definitely get increases for HB. Gloomspite will most likely have reductions for squig stuff but increases for all wizards. 

Everyone is still adjusting to the points changes.

Edited by Malakithe
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