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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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1 hour ago, TeddyMadeMeDoIt said:

If I could get and extra 2 are there any must haves or recommendations based on what's here?

Seems like you could maybe do better with 280 points than Castigators and Hailstorm Battery. Would probably be better to just surround the Ordinator with a couple more ballistae (4 total). You could do that and still have 80 points left over, maybe swap Incantor for Celestant on Dracoth or Astreia Solbright or Azyros + Veritant .... just some thoughts, lots of potential options.

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Do I see correctly that teleport ability from Hammerstrike Force and Vanguard Wing was removed? Or is now in another batallion or somewhere else? 

If it was removed how do you play you Paladins now? 

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Posted (edited)

It's in the Stormcast allegiance now, called "scions of the storm", which allows half your army to setup anywhere on the field, outside 9" from enemy models at the end of your movement phase.

I've not seen someone run Paladins recently, though i could imagine Decimators thrive in the hordes that are around these days.

Edited by Lucur
spelling

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2 hours ago, Aryann said:

Do I see correctly that teleport ability from Hammerstrike Force and Vanguard Wing was removed? Or is now in another batallion or somewhere else? 

If it was removed how do you play you Paladins now? 

You haven't been around SCE for a whille it seems

You don't play paladins pretty much at all now, because evocators. There is a place for decimators and Skyborne Slayers are still somewhat decent, but most of the time you just don't play paladins.

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1 hour ago, Lucur said:

It's in the Stormcast allegiance now, called "scions of the storm", which allows half your army to setup anywhere on the field, outside 9" from enemy models at the end of your movement phase.

I've not seen someone run Paladins recently, though i could imagine Decimators thrive in the hordes that are around these days.

It's not as good as that teleport was. It was like? 6" from enemy models?

46 minutes ago, XReN said:

You haven't been around SCE for a whille it seems

You don't play paladins pretty much at all now, because evocators. There is a place for decimators and Skyborne Slayers are still somewhat decent, but most of the time you just don't play paladins.

Seems like the perfect famous GW balance all the way sadly.

I was wondering whether to expand my SC forces to a full playable 2k army but I always prefered the original Stormcast models from 1st wave.

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5 minutes ago, Aryann said:

It's not as good as that teleport was. It was like? 6" from enemy models?

Seems like the perfect famous GW balance all the way sadly.

I was wondering whether to expand my SC forces to a full playable 2k army but I always prefered the original Stormcast models from 1st wave.

After all the nerfs it was 3" from enemy

You can try and figure out something with Skyborne Slayers, they still get to be set up 5" away from opponent, fill your battleline, make you ignore battleshock and you also keep the bonus from Shock and Awe - which is a new battle trait that gives your models that were set on the battlefield that turn a -1 to hit them.

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Also, let's wait for GHB2019. Fingers crossed we might see a few points drops on the older SCE range.

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Guys, one more question. If you were to play 2k army with Paladins (prefered Retributors as I already have few), Liberators and Prosecutors what list would you bring? Thx.

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1 hour ago, Aryann said:

Guys, one more question. If you were to play 2k army with Paladins (prefered Retributors as I already have few), Liberators and Prosecutors what list would you bring? Thx.

This core:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
5 x Retributors (220)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
5 x Retributors (220)
- 2x Starsoul Maces
3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100)

Battalions
Hammerstrike Force (120)

Total: 960 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 21
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 66

Backed up by some wizards and shooting 

With Hammers of Sigmar for Gav Bomb / Vandus stacking attacks

Celestial Vindicators for extra attacks (Vandus might be stronger)

Astral templars to help with slowness and you can fit ballista spam in for good effect

Good ol' Staunch Defender

 

Knight Azyros is universally a great support hero for both melee and shooting

 

I also faced 10 retributors buffed to 2+ rerolling 1s save and that was nasty

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@XReN

Thx. Seems solid. It will be safe to wait for new GHB'19 but then I'm open for some expansion.

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Looking at the BOBO 2019 results, a huge AoS Tournament with almost 200 people, is a little depressing. 1 Stormcast in the top 50 finishers (42). 

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Went to a local 2 dayer, 3-2 with Anvilstrike. Very depressing after a good showing at Adepticon.

The meta is just so fast and killy right now that if you don't have lots of redundancy and/or disruption, the game is really on a knife's edge. Anvilstrike can probably still hang with some tweaks, and I probably could have won both of those games had my opponents not gotten the double turn... but I dunno, it always felt like I was on the back foot even in the games I won. Bestigors, Enlightened, Witch Aelves, Morathi, FEC - all can get across the board reliably on T1 unless you backline most of the army, and even then you're not safe if they get a double (and they will since they outdrop you 99% of the time). I lost my Longstrike unit in four of the games, even with Aetherwings to block. 

I'll try Anvilstrike with more bodies and shutdown - maybe trading some units for extra Aetherwings is apropos. Swapping the 10 Evocators + Heraldor for 20 Sequitors + Castellant takes a lot of teeth out, but it also gives a harder frontline that can help to soak a charge or two and still isn't too bad at hitting back. Going for a more castle approach to the list, though the damage output of 10 Evos is just nothing to scoff at. 

I was also looking at the lists I ran against and thinking about how Gav would do against it. I think the Daughters matchup wouldn't be too bad - just my own 10 man unit was able to boop of 30 Witch Aelves per charge fairly reliably (though they were Khailebron rather than Hagg-Nar), and once the bodies are down, Morathi herself isn't super terrifying. FEC and LoN are still horrid for Gav since they'll just blob out Ghouls and countercharge with monsters. BoC/Tzeentch speed melee would depend heavily on mission and positioning. 

Honestly I'm leaning towards Ignax Stardrake. There's so many horde-heavy armies in the game with a smattering of MWs. Grimghasts, Gobbos, Bestigors, Ghouls, Witch Aelves, Plague Monks - all of them bounce off him. I would go for Smouldering Helm, but Terrorgheist Maws and WLCs are still in the game, as are Endless Spells, so Ignax is probably necessary most of the time.

I still feel Shootcast should be the way we build, since it spoilers a lot of things and we're one of the few armies that can really do shooting well... it's just so flimsy due to points. Our weakness is already bodies and when someone can just chuck 90 Aelves, or 60 Bestigors, or 60 Tzaangors, or 120 Plague Monks, etc into it, without something like Sequitors to block it up it's a bit rough. Aetherwings are great but they basically stop 1 charge per unit, which is great against slower armies that you can pick off but nothing against 2+ units in your DZ at the bottom of 1. 

Maybe I'm just a bit salty at my own performance, but it just felt like the meta has shifted so hard that SCE need to refocus to deal with it. Luckily, we're an army with a dozen different possible builds and will never be out of the meta just due to variety, but it can be frustrating to see the build you've worked hard on suddenly lose viability. 

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44 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Went to a local 2 dayer, 3-2 with Anvilstrike. Very depressing after a good showing at Adepticon.

...

but it can be frustrating to see the build you've worked hard on suddenly lose viability. 

Going 3-2 is losing viability? Sounds like a respectable showing. You can't expect the other tournament-level players to just roll over.

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Quick question! Does Celestant-Primes "Retribution From On High" count towards the Scion’s 50:50 rule?

Eg. I have 9 drops, scion 4 and put the Prime up in the air making it 4 on ground and 5 as reserve?

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Posted (edited)

Does someone know which colour and wash was used for that whitish robe and that „violet“?

 

09C4D3CA-EDF5-4BE8-B7F7-EDB5459DC010.jpeg

09EF39B5-FE09-4E42-AB4C-A61B1F5E26C1.png

C6B5C70D-A130-467E-AE3E-F828374B2BAF.jpeg

Edited by Erdemo86

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1 hour ago, ChaosLord said:

Going 3-2 is losing viability? Sounds like a respectable showing. You can't expect the other tournament-level players to just roll over.

It's less about the results and more about how I got there.

I did beat DoK along the way, but it was his first event and I was simply taking advantage of his executions along with some luck. He killed my Longstrikes on Turn 2 with little to no issue, and then I only won because I made some longbomb charges with the Evos, got the Double Turn, and he messed up positioning for Knife to the Heart. Also if he was HaggNar for the extra durability, I wouldn't have done nearly as much damage.

I beat a mixed Order gunline with 40 Arkanauts, but I should have lost. I had no way to chew through that many bodies and he tabled me by the end, but I only won because I snuck past him to burn Better Part of Valor objectives and won immediately despite getting tabled the turn after. There were too many dice and bodies for me to win if it was any other mission. 

My two losses were against "meta" lists. Gristlegore and Bestigor/Enlightened Beasts of Chaos (similar to the popular Tzaangor/Enlightened Tzeentch build), and I was on the back foot every step of the way until I fell. Anvilstrike, or at least the way I run it, does not have a real answer to a uber-killy melee unit that gets into your lines on Turn 1, especially when they get the Double. If there are two such units, as there often are at the moment, it's an even more difficult ladder to climb.

I think I could have won all my games - if I made no mistakes and got all the luck I needed. Anvilstrike is very strong but so unforgiving that it can feel very frustrating to play. I don't want to insinuate that my opponents are bad players, since indeed I knew many of them and they were extremely good players, but their armies are much more straightforward and resilient to missteps.

There's plenty to be said about playing a very technical list and overcoming adversity through proper play, but it can feel very frustrating when people are receiving much better results with lists that require far less precision. Again, that isn't a knock to any of my opponents, but just a statement of the state of the army I have been playing.

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2 hours ago, Requizen said:

Went to a local 2 dayer, 3-2 with Anvilstrike. Very depressing after a good showing at Adepticon.

The meta is just so fast and killy right now that if you don't have lots of redundancy and/or disruption, the game is really on a knife's edge. Anvilstrike can probably still hang with some tweaks, and I probably could have won both of those games had my opponents not gotten the double turn... but I dunno, it always felt like I was on the back foot even in the games I won. Bestigors, Enlightened, Witch Aelves, Morathi, FEC - all can get across the board reliably on T1 unless you backline most of the army, and even then you're not safe if they get a double (and they will since they outdrop you 99% of the time). I lost my Longstrike unit in four of the games, even with Aetherwings to block. 

I'll try Anvilstrike with more bodies and shutdown - maybe trading some units for extra Aetherwings is apropos. Swapping the 10 Evocators + Heraldor for 20 Sequitors + Castellant takes a lot of teeth out, but it also gives a harder frontline that can help to soak a charge or two and still isn't too bad at hitting back. Going for a more castle approach to the list, though the damage output of 10 Evos is just nothing to scoff at. 

I was also looking at the lists I ran against and thinking about how Gav would do against it. I think the Daughters matchup wouldn't be too bad - just my own 10 man unit was able to boop of 30 Witch Aelves per charge fairly reliably (though they were Khailebron rather than Hagg-Nar), and once the bodies are down, Morathi herself isn't super terrifying. FEC and LoN are still horrid for Gav since they'll just blob out Ghouls and countercharge with monsters. BoC/Tzeentch speed melee would depend heavily on mission and positioning. 

Honestly I'm leaning towards Ignax Stardrake. There's so many horde-heavy armies in the game with a smattering of MWs. Grimghasts, Gobbos, Bestigors, Ghouls, Witch Aelves, Plague Monks - all of them bounce off him. I would go for Smouldering Helm, but Terrorgheist Maws and WLCs are still in the game, as are Endless Spells, so Ignax is probably necessary most of the time.

I still feel Shootcast should be the way we build, since it spoilers a lot of things and we're one of the few armies that can really do shooting well... it's just so flimsy due to points. Our weakness is already bodies and when someone can just chuck 90 Aelves, or 60 Bestigors, or 60 Tzaangors, or 120 Plague Monks, etc into it, without something like Sequitors to block it up it's a bit rough. Aetherwings are great but they basically stop 1 charge per unit, which is great against slower armies that you can pick off but nothing against 2+ units in your DZ at the bottom of 1. 

Maybe I'm just a bit salty at my own performance, but it just felt like the meta has shifted so hard that SCE need to refocus to deal with it. Luckily, we're an army with a dozen different possible builds and will never be out of the meta just due to variety, but it can be frustrating to see the build you've worked hard on suddenly lose viability. 

I actually have been playtesting both of your and Mr. Pjetski variants of Anvilstirke lists for quite some time and found myself completely helpless against anything that can charge turn one. And now seeing your current thoughts are just proving the point those test results shown. Basically facing anything like Bestigors, Eels, TG's are just a 90% loss. Nothing to use as a reliable screen, Evocators just pop off the board without even hitting anything, 5 man Liberators battleline fillers are a complete joke. Used all the possible combinations of deployment strats ( Board Edge, all key units in Azyr, all key units on the board etc) - this just doesn't seem to work anymore. As long as you are able to snipe the heroes with Raptors all of your troops pretty much wiped out by other stuff.

Might as well just return to generic Gav lists along with Balistar. They at least stand a chance against some lists and not that fragile to alpha strikes.

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7 minutes ago, Qrepin said:

I actually have been playtesting both of your and Mr. Pjetski variants of Anvilstirke lists for quite some time and found myself completely helpless against anything that can charge turn one. And now seeing your current thoughts are just proving the point those test results shown. Basically facing anything like Bestigors, Eels, TG's are just a 90% loss. Nothing to use as a reliable screen, Evocators just pop off the board without even hitting anything, 5 man Liberators battleline fillers are a complete joke. Used all the possible combinations of deployment strats ( Board Edge, all key units in Azyr, all key units on the board etc) - this just doesn't seem to work anymore. As long as you are able to snipe the heroes with Raptors all of your troops pretty much wiped out by other stuff.

Might as well just return to generic Gav lists along with Balistar. They at least stand a chance against some lists and not that fragile to alpha strikes.

Like I said, there's likely a solid variant after some tweaking and what not. More Aetherwings could mitigate the alpha strike issue, and a swap towards a brick unit could help as well. But Alpha lists will always be strong against this sort of thing. 

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7 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Like I said, there's likely a solid variant after some tweaking and what not. More Aetherwings could mitigate the alpha strike issue, and a swap towards a brick unit could help as well. But Alpha lists will always be strong against this sort of thing. 

Completely agree. The main downside of the list right now are not even technical issues like screening. Its the major complexity of planning a right move and no room for mistakes while other competitive meta lists are just as easy as a brick ( Looking at you Gristlegore)

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@Requizen

3/5 is better than my average 2/5 at every tournament I’ve been to for the past year and a half.

 I agree with you that the meta has shifted and gotten even more competitive than ever before.

My current strategy is that Ive completely given up on melee or starting with anything valuable on the board. I’ve  split my army up into useless ****** on the board and anything remotely valuable off the board. I wait until I’m going second then drop and try to do as much damage as I can, and hope for a double turn. I HAVE to table my opponents, because I cannot hold the table or objectives at all. So every game is basically a Hail Mary, hoping for outrageous luck.

I’ve said it many times, but I believe SCE is firmly B level army at this point. There’s 2-3 viable combos: Anvilstrike, seq/evo gav bomb, and les martin drake. Everything else is a bit derivative of those lists. I flop back and forth between a variation of the first two, sometimes combined. I can’t find anything stronger. I agree with you it’s very frustrating.

 I’m going to a very large tournament this weekend. I’ll let you know how it goes. If I win 3 games, I’ll finally break my record. :)

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11 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

@Requizen

3/5 is better than my average 2/5 at every tournament I’ve been to for the past year and a half.

 I agree with you that the meta has shifted and gotten even more competitive than ever before.

My current strategy is that Ive completely given up on melee or starting with anything valuable on the board. I’ve  split my army up into useless ****** on the board and anything remotely valuable off the board. I wait until I’m going second then drop and try to do as much damage as I can, and hope for a double turn. I HAVE to table my opponents, because I cannot hold the table or objectives at all. So every game is basically a Hail Mary, hoping for outrageous luck.

I’ve said it many times, but I believe SCE is firmly B level army at this point. There’s 2-3 viable combos: Anvilstrike, seq/evo gav bomb, and les martin drake. Everything else is a bit derivative of those lists. I flop back and forth between a variation of the first two, sometimes combined. I can’t find anything stronger. I agree with you it’s very frustrating.

 I’m going to a very large tournament this weekend. I’ll let you know how it goes. If I win 3 games, I’ll finally break my record. :)

There's also the rounded TAC list: mostly Sacrosanct + some other things, mainly focusing on a 20-Sequitor Brick with Arcanum and Castellant, 3 dropping Ballistas + Ordinator, and 10-15 Evos for counterstrike. It doesn't have any really hard counters but also lacks a solid win condition.

We've also seen some success with 6+ Dracovator star units, though that can be fairly fragile to counterstrike and has little to no way to deal with Gristlegore other than trying to table the rest of the army and ignoring the ASF General. 

As for Stardrake, I don't think the Les Martin Stardrake + 2x2 Fulmis is the way to go, I'm far more interested in Stardrake + scoring bodies in Sequitors and Skinks. 

Either way, I think GHB19 will be a big shift for Stormcast, any point changes will change how we approach list building.

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1 hour ago, Requizen said:

There's also the rounded TAC list: mostly Sacrosanct + some other things, mainly focusing on a 20-Sequitor Brick with Arcanum and Castellant, 3 dropping Ballistas + Ordinator, and 10-15 Evos for counterstrike. It doesn't have any really hard counters but also lacks a solid win condition.

Yes, it's a good take-all comers list that will solidly bring home a 2/5 wins if you play it really well... As I've said  a few pages ago, this is more or less my default "friendly game" list.

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

We've also seen some success with 6+ Dracovator star units, though that can be fairly fragile to counterstrike and has little to no way to deal with Gristlegore other than trying to table the rest of the army and ignoring the ASF General. 

Yeah. Very similar to above. It does great until it gets hard countered by a better assault army. But I agree it's a good build and a viable direction for someone to go in.

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

As for Stardrake, I don't think the Les Martin Stardrake + 2x2 Fulmis is the way to go, I'm far more interested in Stardrake + scoring bodies in Sequitors and Skinks. 

I probably shouldn't have mentioned the word "Les Martin" as that's a very specific list. I was meaning more generically any list that is supporting an "unkillable" Star Drake. There's many variations of this, and certainly room for some individuality, but the key pieces to support that drake rarely change, and are pretty static across lists.

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

Either way, I think GHB19 will be a big shift for Stormcast, any point changes will change how we approach list building.

Eh.... I hope that you are right. I admit that I feel like I've capped out my SCE for a while now, and I feel like I'm doing about as good as I can hope for. Every new book just brings out another thing that I can't deal with, so as time progresses I feel like I'm getting further and further behind. I'd really like a few points shifts in the next GHB, but I'd settle for some adjustments to some of the other major armies I'm having difficulties with too.

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14 hours ago, XReN said:

After all the nerfs it was 3" from enemy

You can try and figure out something with Skyborne Slayers, they still get to be set up 5" away from opponent, fill your battleline, make you ignore battleshock and you also keep the bonus from Shock and Awe - which is a new battle trait that gives your models that were set on the battlefield that turn a -1 to hit them.

Also, the lord celestant on foot was nerfed...

... except in the context of the skyborne slayers.

Before, he gave +1 to hit to units within 9". Now, it's +1 to hit to units wolly within 12" if he is in melee.

It would be ******...but now he give it in the combat phase, and not in the hero phase.

So now, the skyborne slayers (which is cheaper than before, and with all its units being better than before, especially protectors and crossbow judicators) mean that your units have +1 to hit the turn when they charge AND the ennemy have -1 to hit them during this turn as well.

It give to the skyborn a MUCH better alpha strike than before.

Also, while you don't play the paladins anymore because the evocators are straight-up better... the paladins by themselves aren't worse than before. They are still okay. And a skyborne slayers let you enough pts to fill around 500/600 pts of anything else.

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4 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

Does someone know which colour and wash was used for that whitish robe and that „violet“?

 

For the violet - Screamer Pink, washed with Druchii violet.

For the White... I'm guessing Ulthuan Grey washed with a very watered down Nulin oil, and then dry brushed with some sort of white.

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