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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Sure, but Thunderblast only extends out 3" and they get the buff within 8"

Wholly within and I feel that they'll put at least 1 priest on top of that thing. Project Blastem Galorious. But fair enough, if they are careful they might avoid damage on the rest of the priests. Still, it's another thing they have to keep in mind.

Edited by That Guy

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If SCE get update this year(probably). I think we will also get a special terrain....😁

One great thing about playing SCE: never being outdated for long

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5 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

If SCE get update this year(probably). I think we will also get a special terrain....😁

One great thing about playing SCE: never being outdated for long

We won't get an update, we already have an AoS 2 book with Endless Spells. We may get random unit additions, but I would be really flabbergasted to see a terrain piece or Sigmar forbid, Battletome.

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Im expecting another battletome + chamber in 2020, but definitely not in 2019

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I think we'll get a terrain piece. 

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28 minutes ago, chord said:

I think we'll get a terrain piece. 

Yes I think so too.

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4 hours ago, Requizen said:

Still, with so many armies getting terrain, Heraldors go up in stock quite a bit.

I agree. I've been going light-on with magic lately, and am having a lot of fun with this double Heraldors list. Soooo many drops, but heaps of wounds too, and the double Heraldors threat really messes with the opponent's deployment...

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Astral Templars
Lord-Castellant (100)
- General
- Trait: Dauntless Hunters 
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Godbeast Plate 
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Wounds: 154
 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Requizen said:

 

Argh, double post sorry...

Edited by Roark
Stupid browser

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On 2/28/2019 at 5:17 PM, ledha said:

You know, the more i play against the new battletomes, the less i think sequitors and evocators will really be nerfed that hard.

Now, everyone seems to be able to punch trough the sequitors without any real difficulty

This has been my thinking as well. There is just a large amount of MW flying around lately too. 

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On 3/12/2019 at 11:23 PM, That Guy said:

 

Not mandatory, he will be valuable on your turn 2, in which he can lantern the evocators to a 3+ save with heals on a 7+. This will be a 3+ re-roll 1 save vs shooting. But he is indeed interchangeable if you don't feel you need the added defense. Your choice to replace him can be a good one. Do what you prefer. I also changed the list myself. Currently this is my final Fabrication: 

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Man of Mystery
Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Mount Trait: Windrunner
Lord-Castellant  (100)
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Soulthief
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Lore of Invigoration: Azyrite Halo

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- Grandhammer

5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow

5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- Shockbolt Bow

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
9 x Longstrike Vanguard-Raptors (540)


Total: 1900 / 2000
Extra CP: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107

Explanation:
Fielding the battleline units. Also fielding the incantor with the Raptors. That's 5 units fielded. Keeping the Aquilor, Castellant, Azyros and evocators in the air. The Incantor can trigger the Raptors shooting twice ability in the first turn and can protect the raptors with the spells. If you face an alpha strike list you can ward yourself with the azyrite halo and be ready to go all out with the Spirit flasks putting the battlelines in harms way in case of an extreme case. Later on the Azyrite Halo might actually be of use close towards evocators. When you have the chance you drop down the evocators in place, castellant, azyros and aquillor. Turn 3 and 4 is when you want to strike ultra hard with this list. Casting Speed of Lightning on the evocators to engage a charge, boosting the evocators with the lantern in turn 2  and trying to get the charge off, again you shoot twice with your raptors. Either your raptors are now in danger and you need to swoop in and use an extra CP to pick them up and relocate them with the aquilor. But you still get to shoot twice. Now in turn 3 is where you can start being explosive. You probably still have at least 1 extra CP and your raptors should be save now either by having them re-located or by just being defensive enough. Now you can use the Anvil Command ability twice. Once for the evocators and once for the raptors. If you had 2 CP left, you could do the same in turn 4. If not you are back to just the evocators or just the raptors. 

 

That Guy, I do not understand well when you said: "If you face an alpha strike list you can ward yourself with the azyrite halo and be ready to go all out with the Spirit flasks putting the battlelines in harms way in case of an extreme case"

The Incantor shall cast the spell on itself ? What about mystic Shield? What do you mean by "putting the battlelines in harm ways"?

I am sorry for these questions, my english is quite bad ..

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Hello,

 

Do you want any opinion regarding this list for a future tournament ? Thank you

 

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)
- General
- Command Trait : Staunch Defender
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact : Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait : Keen-clawed

Aventis Firestrike Magister of Hammerhal (360)
- Spell : Azyrite Halo

Lord-Castellant (100)

UNITS

5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers

5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers

5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows

2 x Fulminators (240)

2 x Fulminators (240)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Everblaze Comet (100)

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

The Incantor shall cast the spell on itself ? 

Well, you see facing an Alpha strike list is dangerous for an anvilstrike list. By having the incantor on the field you can threat with the automatic unbind, to stop Chronomantic Cogs for example. Also screening/bubblewrapping your raptors is smart in this case. Basically shielding your raptors with your battleline. If you think you can block them with 1 battleline cast the halo on them. But in extreme cases, say you think they’ll get to your raptors in the worst case scenario. You can than Cast halo on the raptors threatening with mortal wounds on unmodified 6’s. The knight-incantor can once per game drop 1,2,3 spirit flasks, dealing 1 mortal wound for units below 10 models 3” around her per flask. Or d3 mortals per flask for units with 10 or more miniatures. I’m not saying it will save your game, but in extreme cases you can resort to these desperate tactics in which you take an eye for an eye. In such cases once it’s your turn, you want to swoop in with your Lord-Aquilor afterwards and teleport away with the Raptors and relocate them. Now your enemy either destroyed your battleline and incantor or is stuck in combat with them and the incantor. You can use this to shoot at them from afar with your repositioned raptors.

Edited by That Guy
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43 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Hello,

 

Do you want any opinion regarding this list for a future tournament ? Thank you

 

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560)
- General
- Command Trait : Staunch Defender
- Celestine Hammer
- Artefact : Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait : Keen-clawed

Aventis Firestrike Magister of Hammerhal (360)
- Spell : Azyrite Halo

Lord-Castellant (100)

UNITS

5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers

5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1 x Grandhammers

5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1 x Shockbolt Bows

2 x Fulminators (240)

2 x Fulminators (240)

ENDLESS SPELLS

Everblaze Comet (100)

Uhm... I do not play stormcast...Anyway I think that your list seems quite umbalanced. Maybe you should drop Aventis and take the Incantor plus another mage if u want use the comet( cast and then dispell the next turn and etcetc ) , as I think than you will have problems to contest the objectives or have enough raw damage out put to clear a blob of chaff.

I think than stormacast works better with more "small heores" than with just a couple of strong one 😃 for example for the same cost of the big guy on dragon you can have Castellant + Celestant + 15 Sequitors (30 W at 2 + AS rerollable with Staunch Defender and lantern) and this is just an example 😃

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Zaffersimo said:

Anyway I think that your list seems quite umbalanced. 

Nawwww man, this man has a plan. He came with a mission.  Those battleline are gonna be his objective drops. He plans to strike where it hurts with his entire list all around his dragon. This army will have 2+ Re-roll 1’s saves on his fulminators and stardrake with the stardrake bouncing of a mortal on a succesful re-roll. Aventis can also tag in on this 2+ save train. With his castellant he’s probably looking to lantern the drake making it a 1+ save re-roll 1’s which makes it easier to re-roll into succesful saves and casting azyrite halo on it will bounce even more mortals back, all the while, he heals wounds back on 5+ vs no rend, 6+ vs -1 rend. He can also use the castellant on fulminators making them have a 1+ re-roll 1 save and 0+ re-roll 1 save against shooting. He can even cast the halo on aventis and the lantern, making him heal on top of his self heal, bouncing off mortals from the halo AND righteous retribution. But this man is NOT done with just that. He is looking to bring the absolute mortal wound rampage towards you, his drake boosting casting +1, -1 for the enemy around him. Making aventis drop that comet in the enemies midst while he eagerly waits to activate his dragons CA and enable those fulimators for an explosive charge with all that defensiveness. Oh and he’ll also blast them with the dragon breaths and stardrake mortals and aventis his laser beam.

This man came to tell, you don’t mess with stormcast eternals, let me show you. He came to be Rambo and I love him for it.

@Saul GoodmanI do assume, you know, you don’t get to use Aventis his CA, but I feel you are one cheeky fellow, using the dragons CA the whole time anyways.

But yes, against magic heavy lists this list will probably crumble after a while. But he’s looking to shut that down with aventis his 2 unbinds and a -1 cast debuff from the dragon. I just feel a legions of nagash list will absolutely tear this list apart, hand of dust the dragon to oblivion and aventis, next turn. Against most lists he’ll be fine I feel. He will need the charge though.

EDIT: OOOOOH!!! snap! With the everblaze comet he’s even looking to debuff -1 cast again! He’s going for -2 cast with 2 unbinds. 

Edited by That Guy

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1 hour ago, That Guy said:

Nawwww man, this man has a plan. He came with a mission.  Those battleline are gonna be his objective drops. He plans to strike where it hurts with his entire list all around his dragon. This army will have 2+ Re-roll 1’s saves on his fulminators and stardrake with the stardrake bouncing of a mortal on a succesful re-roll. Aventis can also tag in on this 2+ save train. With his castellant he’s probably looking to lantern the drake making it a 1+ save re-roll 1’s which makes it easier to re-roll into succesful saves and casting azyrite halo on it will bounce even more mortals back, all the while, he heals wounds back on 5+ vs no rend, 6+ vs -1 rend. He can also use the castellant on fulminators making them have a 1+ re-roll 1 save and 0+ re-roll 1 save against shooting. He can even cast the halo on aventis and the lantern, making him heal on top of his self heal, bouncing off mortals from the halo AND righteous retribution. But this man is NOT done with just that. He is looking to bring the absolute mortal wound rampage towards you, his drake boosting casting +1, -1 for the enemy around him. Making aventis drop that comet in the enemies midst while he eagerly waits to activate his dragons CA and enable those fulimators for an explosive charge with all that defensiveness. Oh and he’ll also blast them with the dragon breaths and stardrake mortals and aventis his laser beam.

This man came to tell, you don’t mess with stormcast eternals, let me show you. He came to be Rambo and I love him for it.

@Saul GoodmanI do assume, you know, you don’t get to use Aventis his CA, but I feel you are one cheeky fellow, using the dragons CA the whole time anyways.

But yes, against magic heavy lists this list will probably crumble after a while. But he’s looking to shut that down with aventis his 2 unbinds and a -1 cast debuff from the dragon. I just feel a legions of nagash list will absolutely tear this list apart, hand of dust the dragon to oblivion and aventis, next turn. Against most lists he’ll be fine I feel. He will need the charge though.

EDIT: OOOOOH!!! snap! With the everblaze comet he’s even looking to debuff -1 cast again! He’s going for -2 cast with 2 unbinds. 

Hello That Guy,

 

Ahah, you made me laugh (sorry for my English I'm French)

Indeed, you totally understood the principle of my list. Abuse deadly wounds and target priority enemy characters. With the Comet og Aventis at Stardrake Butterflies of Light (1d6 unit 4+ D3 Mortal), the shooting of the Judicators ans potentials of the Fulimnators.

By posting my liste i intentionally did not specify that it would be a team tournament of 4 respecting each allegiance by players (Death / Nagash, Destrusction Godrakk and One Mawcrusha, Me one SCE with my list Aventis and Chaos Nurgle GUO ROT GLOT) and therefore i would have great chance of not falling on Nagash. I wanted to have a clear opinion for a tournament singles.

 

Obviously I do not intend to use the CA of Aventis which I find useless in this list and anyway unusable :)

Let's say that in this list, I will une Aventis as a solitary missile to slay isolated units ans heroes. But i will try to do mu necessary according to the opponent to leave Aventis close to the drake for the Stauch Defender.

I think that if I want to throw and Dispel the Everblaze Comet during the same turn Aventis is a good compromise in my list ans i can not do it all has a lot of good luck auto.

After it should not be denied, it's al list that goes or it breaks. Especially with regard to the goal to as many figurines.

 

I would fulfill my mission and swear it.

In Brightest Dayn In Blackest Night, No evil Shall Escape my Sight... Let Those Who Worship Evil's Might, Beware My Power... Sigmar Lantern's Light.

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Yeah it’s like a hammer of sigmar coming down. Also I forgot to mention. Within the staunch defender aura, if you would be putting the lantern on the fulminators, which i doubt you will do, but, if you would. Like i said they become 1+ save re-roll 1’s and 0+ saves re-roll 1’s vs shooting. This also means that any save roll of 4+ vs shooting will heal your fulminators and 5+ vs melee. If it’s rendless. Absolutely disgusting to fight against. 😆

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1 hour ago, That Guy said:

Yeah it’s like a hammer of sigmar coming down. Also I forgot to mention. Within the staunch defender aura, if you would be putting the lantern on the fulminators, which i doubt you will do, but, if you would. Like i said they become 1+ save re-roll 1’s and 0+ saves re-roll 1’s vs shooting. This also means that any save roll of 4+ vs shooting will heal your fulminators and 5+ vs melee. If it’s rendless. Absolutely disgusting to fight against. 😆

 Can’t have Staunch unless he’s not taking Hammers, in which case Aventis seems a waste

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nos said:

Can’t have Staunch unless he’s not taking Hammers, in which case Aventis seems a waste

He already stated he doesn't take aventis for the CA. He'll be using the CA of the Stardrake. He wants to use the unique spell of Aventis to blow up a flank, while the rest of his cavalry holds the line. No other Stormcast eternal has access to that spell. Aventis is just 20P more expensive than a normal Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon and adds:

  • 1 Extra Attack on the Tauralon;
  • Righteous Indignation(roll a dice when a wound is allocated by a melee weapon on a 5+ that unit suffers a mortal wound)
  • Thunderhead Crown( Heal 1 wound a turn) 
  • His unique spell that lets him shoot a laser beam over 9" range, everything under it suffers D3 mortals.

Now what does the normal Lord offer?
CA: Add 2" to the run move of sacrosanct chambers wholly within 18", which in this list, will only be him. 
His Unique spell: Lightning Orb: Pick a point within 12" of the caster, roll a dice for each unit within 3" of that point and do D3 mortal wounds against that unit if you roll a 4+ for it. 

In my opinion Aventis wins it over the normal lord arcanum on tauralon, if you don't play him as general and not in a overly sacrosanct army. Aventis straight up deals those mortals, no dice rolls needed. And he's punishing in melee too. He has the option to go for other lord arcanums, but dropping down from a tauralon, means dropping down 1 cast and 1 unbind as well. He could take 2 lord arcanums on foot for the price of Aventis and have the same amount of wounds, casts and unbinds, but lose the mobility and combat power that the tauralon grants him. The unique spell of a lord arcanum will give him a good debuff spell, but it's not what he's looking for. 2 arcanums can grant him 2 different lore spells though. There's also the option for incantor with arcanum, or multiple incantors. That might be a way. But once again mobility would drop. He does have a few points to play with, So a lord arcanum on gryph charger, with a knight-incantor might be a solid option here, having the extra healing power and combat power from the gryph charger with lord arcanum and the extra automatic unbind from the incantor. Again, not as explosive as a Tauralon arcanum and Aventis, but more defensive.

Edited by That Guy
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, That Guy said:

He already stated he doesn't take aventis for the CA. He'll be using the CA of the Stardrake. He wants to use the unique spell of Aventis to blow up a flank, while the rest of his cavalry holds the line. No other Stormcast eternal has access to that spell. Aventis is just 20P more expensive than a normal Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon and adds:

  • 1 Extra Attack on the Tauralon;
  • Righteous Indignation(roll a dice when a wound is allocated by a melee weapon on a 5+ that unit suffers a mortal wound)
  • Thunderhead Crown( Heal 1 wound a turn) 
  • His unique spell that lets him shoot a laser beam over 9" range, everything under it suffers D3 mortals.

Now what does the normal Lord offer?
CA: Add 2" to the run move of sacrosanct chambers wholly within 18", which in this list, will only be him. 
His Unique spell: Lightning Orb: Pick a point within 12" of the caster, roll a dice for each unit within 3" of that point and do D3 mortal wounds against that unit if you roll a 4+ for it. 

In my opinion Aventis wins it over the normal lord arcanum on tauralon, if you don't play him as general and not in a overly sacrosanct army. 

Blow up a flank seems ambitious.

9” within the caster your opponent would really have be squeezing them in to get more than 2 units, and it’s max D3 per unit . You don’t need to spend 300 points to do 3 wounds to 2 units which is pretty much best case scenario and it’s a weird situation where that few wounds would even begin to blow up a flank.

Discounting that his CA for Hammers is amazing. If you took him and Vandus and planned it properly you would have Fulminators and Dracoths with 4 attacks each wounding on 2’s.

Edited by Nos
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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Nos said:

Discounting that his CA for Hammers is amazing. If you took him and Vandus and planned it properly you would have Fulminators and Dracoths with 4 attacks each wounding on 2’s.

Yeah, I do agree that for the overall the Vandus/ Aventis Combo can be devastating, but that would be going for the offensive approach. He's going for a hard engage and than stay there like a solid rock, healing while getting damage. He'll not have the points for Vandus though, which means he would have to drop his Stardrake. Don't think he want to do that. Also the stardrake makes him re-roll wound rolls on a 3+, which is arguably better than a 2+ to wound. Sure vandus gives them +1 attack, and battleshock immunity in a hammers list, but to get that done, you are spending 2CP a turn. Need to reserve extra points or insert a battalion for that. I'm not saying it's bad, i'm just saying you change the entire list and playstyle if you make the changes you suggested. You did make me interested in exploring Aventis/Stardrake with Vandus combo's now though. Thanks for that(collecting and painting Hammers of Sigmar myself).

Edited by That Guy

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Posted (edited)

Little experimental list, let me know what you think.
 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Man of Mystery
Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

Leaders
Lord-Castellant (100)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Artefact: God-Forged Blade
Aventis Firestrike (360)
- Mount Trait: Steel Pinions
- Lore of the Storm: Azyrite Halo

Vandus Hammerhand (280)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- Grandhammer

5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- Grandhammer

5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- Grandhammer

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5 x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
4 x Fulminators (480)

Endless Spells:
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra CP: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103

Before I start the explanation... I'm not sure if named characters are allowed Mount Traits, so far i've not seen anything against it. I do know that named characters are not allowed to have Command Traits and Artefacts. Mount Traits are neither.

Explanation:
Steel Pinion on Aventis to Negate wounds on a 6+. His Righteous Indignation works on wounds allocated, not suffered, so even if you would negate damage, you will still bounce of a mortal wound. Trait and Artefact on the castellant since he's the only one that can have them. But it's not that bad either. The occasional 3 damage hit out of your castellant can be surprising, especially after being attack boosted by Vandus. The We Cannot Fail Trait shall help as well, since the castellant is looking to drop in near where the Fulminators, Evocators, Vandus and Aventis look to charge. Fielding Vandus, Aventis, 2 Units of liberators. Having Fulminators, Evocators, Castellant and 1 unit of Liberators in the air. Vandus can give battleshock immunity to your 2 liberator units if you don't get first turn and Aventis is able to unbind 2 casts. Afterwards you can drop in your Eternals, perhaps cast shackles  for some movement control, or swap them out for Quicksilver swords for some added damage. Next turn you can speed of lightning evocators to create a re-roll charge funnel and charge your Fulminators, Evocators, Aventis, Vandus. You can Azyrite halo either the Evocators or Fulminators, based on who made combat. Your Aventis CA is probably best used on the Fulminators. Than Vandus enables your whole force. The Lord-Castellant can make the Fulminators a 2+ re-roll 1 or 1+ re-roll 1 vs ranged or make 3+ saves Evocators. Let me know what you think. Also let me know what you think of dropping the castellant and Shackles and go for a Vexillor with pennant and take chronomantic cogs, or do we need a Gavriel in here as well? 

Edited by That Guy

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1 hour ago, That Guy said:

Yeah, I do agree that for the overall the Vandus/ Aventis Combo can be devastating, but that would be going for the offensive approach. He's going for a hard engage and than stay there like a solid rock, healing while getting damage. He'll not have the points for Vandus though, which means he would have to drop his Stardrake. Don't think he want to do that. Also the stardrake makes him re-roll wound rolls on a 3+, which is arguably better than a 2+ to wound. Sure vandus gives them +1 attack, and battleshock immunity in a hammers list, but to get that done, you are spending 2CP a turn. Need to reserve extra points or insert a battalion for that. I'm not saying it's bad, i'm just saying you change the entire list and playstyle if you make the changes you suggested. You did make me interested in exploring Aventis/Stardrake with Vandus combo's now though. Thanks for that(collecting and painting Hammers of Sigmar myself).

Vandus Battleshock Immunity is free, it’s just a passive. He’s pretty good in a fight too, I think probably the best “fighty” SC Hero there is. Up to 7 Damage 3 attacks on his own if you use his CA. If you get lucky with Intolerable damage he can wipe big monsters or small elite units like Kurnoths. 

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Posted (edited)

There's gonna be a 'Stormfort'.

It's mentioned a halfdozen times in the Black Pyramid  book with the proper noun capitalization GW likes to do with unit names.

The ordinator/dwarves set them up all over a city they are trying to reclaim, I don't recall them having a great description of what they are just lots of mentions like 'Are the foundations strong enough for a Stormfort?' "They will be if you can keep the beastmen off us"

That sorta thing.

Edited by GlanceOnASix
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3 hours ago, GlanceOnASix said:

There's gonna be a 'Stormfort'.

It's mentioned a halfdozen times in the Black Pyramid  book with the proper noun capitalization GW likes to do with unit names.

The ordinator/dwarves set them up all over a city they are trying to reclaim, I don't recall them having a great description of what they are just lots of mentions like 'Are the foundations strong enough for a Stormfort?' "They will be if you can keep the beastmen off us"

That sorta thing.

"Stormkeep"

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I'm not sure with the azyrite halo on a ultra buffed unit with impossible to pierce save. Your opponent will most of the time not attack the unit at all except with MW if you have a 0+ reroll save

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