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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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58 minutes ago, Twh30 said:

Have you look at pairing it with soulstrike brotherhood with say 12 castigators stopped in on a monster 24 shots -2 rend ? 2+  to hit 

That's a lot of points, and again Soulstrike basically just cries if Total Commitment is on the docket (which has been true for pretty much every tournament I've been to since AoS2 came out).

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

Anvils vs Skaven shooting seems to be heavily favoured for the Stormcast player, at least in my experience. Longstrikes outrange WLC (29" vs 27"), you can translocate to the spot you need to snipe whatever you need because Skaven have lousy board control, and 2 dispel scrolls stop the important spells (like combo mirrors). The real threat is Plagueclaws with their 34" threat range, but you can deep strike and/or Translocate into a good shooting position and Im not sure 4x Plagueclaw lists are a viable choice to go 5-0 in a tournament setting.

You're forgetting a couple things. Jezzails are basically Longstrikes, especially since rerolling hits on a 4+ is only slightly worse than having a 2+, and they can teleport through Gnawholes for no roll, unlike Translocation. Their 30" range and damage 2 makes everything a target, so the game between Jezzails and Longstrikes is basically a quick-draw game of seeing who can get in range first to eliminate each other/Heroes.

Similarly, WLCs can move through Gnawholes (albeit one per turn), so unless you zone out 29" from the terrain pieces,  you're in trouble. Not impossible but really reduces where you can actually set up.

I'm currently eyeing up something like this:

Lord Arcanum - General, Staunch, Azyrite Halo
Lord Castellant - [Artifact not sure yet (maybe Gryph Feather or Lantern of the Tempest)]
Lord Ordinator
Knight Incantor - Celestial Blades

Sequitors x20
Liberators
Liberators

10 Evocators

Ballista
Ballista
Ballista
Ballista

Geminids

2000/2000

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18 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Geminids

Perhaps the Celestian Vortex has a place here. Especially against the skaven lists proccing on 5’s and debuffing missile weps -1 to hit within 6”.

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22 minutes ago, Requizen said:

That's a lot of points, and again Soulstrike basically just cries if Total Commitment is on the docket (which has been true for pretty much every tournament I've been to since AoS2 came out).

You're forgetting a couple things. Jezzails are basically Longstrikes, especially since rerolling hits on a 4+ is only slightly worse than having a 2+, and they can teleport through Gnawholes for no roll, unlike Translocation. Their 30" range and damage 2 makes everything a target, so the game between Jezzails and Longstrikes is basically a quick-draw game of seeing who can get in range first to eliminate each other/Heroes.

Similarly, WLCs can move through Gnawholes (albeit one per turn), so unless you zone out 29" from the terrain pieces,  you're in trouble. Not impossible but really reduces where you can actually set up.

From my experience Gnawholes are very pretty to cover and deny. I haven't had a problem deploying or moving a single disposable unit on top of each Gnawhole to zone out jezzails/WLC/Plagueclaw teleports (the gryph hound that comes with the Veritant is quite useful for this task) or just deploying key units out of potential threat range.

If you see them bringing an Eshin hero with the Gnawhole artifact and Skitterleap to combo teleport you just need to have your dispel scroll in range to deny. Even assuming they get that combo off because of a double turn and they teleport the WLC through the gnaw hole... it's not going to be using its double dice ability, since that requires an engineer nearby. The most damage it will do is 6 mortal wounds, which is only killing 3 Longstrikes. WLC are so swingy and unreliable that it's a questionable tactic at best.

If positioned correctly you should get the advantage over any Skaven shooting unit because they don't have the same kind of movement/deployment tactics as the Stormcast. When in doubt you can always save your command point, drop them into play, and set up for a double CA the following turn with both Evos + Longstrikes.

It's definitely too early for definitive statements but so far I don't think a mass-shooting Skaven list is viable - it will crumble far too quickly to aggressive double pile-in armies like Slaanesh and FEC.

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How often do people get 'Empower' off onto a large unit of Sequitors (20)? 

Played first games with Stormcast at the weekend and couldnt manage my positioning to keep the unit 'wholly' within the Evocators, without significantly reducing the effectiveness of either or both units.  Not having a lot of units on the board i didnt feel i could just leave the Evocators babysitting the Sequitors to try and cast Empower (and hope it wasnt dispelled).

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1 hour ago, Requizen said:

That's a lot of points, and again Soulstrike basically just cries if Total Commitment is on the docket (which has been true for pretty much every tournament I've been to since AoS2 came out).

You're forgetting a couple things. Jezzails are basically Longstrikes, especially since rerolling hits on a 4+ is only slightly worse than having a 2+, and they can teleport through Gnawholes for no roll, unlike Translocation. Their 30" range and damage 2 makes everything a target, so the game between Jezzails and Longstrikes is basically a quick-draw game of seeing who can get in range first to eliminate each other/Heroes.

Similarly, WLCs can move through Gnawholes (albeit one per turn), so unless you zone out 29" from the terrain pieces,  you're in trouble. Not impossible but really reduces where you can actually set up.

I'm currently eyeing up something like this:

Lord Arcanum - General, Staunch, Azyrite Halo
Lord Castellant - [Artifact not sure yet (maybe Gryph Feather or Lantern of the Tempest)]
Lord Ordinator
Knight Incantor - Celestial Blades

Sequitors x20
Liberators
Liberators

10 Evocators

Ballista
Ballista
Ballista
Ballista

Geminids

2000/2000

For total commute what advice can you give on playing it. I’m thinking of castigators list like I said before but willing to adjust mayb hailstorm battery battalion freeing up 240 points?

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1 hour ago, PJetski said:

From my experience Gnawholes are very pretty to cover and deny. I haven't had a problem deploying or moving a single disposable unit on top of each Gnawhole to zone out jezzails/WLC/Plagueclaw teleports (the gryph hound that comes with the Veritant is quite useful for this task) or just deploying key units out of potential threat range.

If you see them bringing an Eshin hero with the Gnawhole artifact and Skitterleap to combo teleport you just need to have your dispel scroll in range to deny. Even assuming they get that combo off because of a double turn and they teleport the WLC through the gnaw hole... it's not going to be using its double dice ability, since that requires an engineer nearby. The most damage it will do is 6 mortal wounds, which is only killing 3 Longstrikes. WLC are so swingy and unreliable that it's a questionable tactic at best.

If positioned correctly you should get the advantage over any Skaven shooting unit because they don't have the same kind of movement/deployment tactics as the Stormcast. When in doubt you can always save your command point, drop them into play, and set up for a double CA the following turn with both Evos + Longstrikes.

It's definitely too early for definitive statements but so far I don't think a mass-shooting Skaven list is viable - it will crumble far too quickly to aggressive double pile-in armies like Slaanesh and FEC.

Yeah it's a bit early to call it either way. I'm just wary of counter-shooting when I have a relatively squishy 540 point unit as the core of my army, it was a big point of fear against KO as well last month (especially with how many "extra wounds" a unit of Arkanauts have).

I do still think that a Ballista list vs Anvils is favored towards the Ballistas, though, but that requires some testing and placement as well.

25 minutes ago, Twh30 said:

For total commute what advice can you give on playing it. I’m thinking of castigators list like I said before but willing to adjust mayb hailstorm battery battalion freeing up 240 points?

Hm well basically I just wouldn't play an army that's build around requiring the use of Reserves. Like, the Castigators are already pretty poor when you have to walk them forwards on foot (not terrible, but not great), and then compound that with the fact that you paid for a Battalion that basically does nothing... feels bad. In other missions, it'll clean up.

You could probably still run it and just play cheeky in Total Commitment, but depends heavily on the list in question.

I like Hailstorm quite a bit, it's not a Battalion you build around though. It's just more of a "oh, I've already got the models and points, might as well take it" type of Battalion.

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1 minute ago, Requizen said:

Yeah it's a bit early to call it either way. I'm just wary of counter-shooting when I have a relatively squishy 540 point unit as the core of my army, it was a big point of fear against KO as well last month (especially with how many "extra wounds" a unit of Arkanauts have).

I do still think that a Ballista list vs Anvils is favored towards the Ballistas, though, but that requires some testing and placement as well.

Hm well basically I just wouldn't play an army that's build around requiring the use of Reserves. Like, the Castigators are already pretty poor when you have to walk them forwards on foot (not terrible, but not great), and then compound that with the fact that you paid for a Battalion that basically does nothing... feels bad. In other missions, it'll clean up.

You could probably still run it and just play cheeky in Total Commitment, but depends heavily on the list in question.

I like Hailstorm quite a bit, it's not a Battalion you build around though. It's just more of a "oh, I've already got the models and points, might as well take it" type of Battalion.

This was the list thinking of using any opinions? 

BA892134-77D2-46D4-A0A7-471B6CA2F004.jpeg

223731DB-5635-4424-9E6C-178A7628BC70.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Twh30 said:

This was the list thinking of using any opinions? 

 

 

Well it's pretty light on bodies, but I think you have enough shooting to chew through whatever walks across the table at you.

The Castellant doesn't do much in the list. He really wants one big unit to buff up with the Lantern, and your one big unit is going to be dropping across the table, far away from him and his buff. And even if he drops with them, he can't buff them until next turn. I might swap him out for a Veritant or Venator. 

I actually don't think it would auto-lose at Total Commitment, given that you bubble the objectives properly and play defensively enough to just shoot anything that comes over, but it's not a great scenario still.  The list also will struggle in 3 Places of Power/Duality, but hopefully shooting Heroes will take care of that. Do keep in mind that you have an extra Artifact you're not using.

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1 minute ago, Requizen said:

Well it's pretty light on bodies, but I think you have enough shooting to chew through whatever walks across the table at you.

The Castellant doesn't do much in the list. He really wants one big unit to buff up with the Lantern, and your one big unit is going to be dropping across the table, far away from him and his buff. And even if he drops with them, he can't buff them until next turn. I might swap him out for a Veritant or Venator. 

I actually don't think it would auto-lose at Total Commitment, given that you bubble the objectives properly and play defensively enough to just shoot anything that comes over, but it's not a great scenario still.  The list also will struggle in 3 Places of Power/Duality, but hopefully shooting Heroes will take care of that. Do keep in mind that you have an extra Artifact you're not using.

Yea true about the artifact hadn’t thought which to use . Mayb could use lord relictor and have the translocation spell for total commitment mayb to shoot a unit over the board 

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18 hours ago, Kevin K said:

I've been running a very similar list for awhile.  I really like the Pallador and Lord-Aquilor models and am trying to make a list where I can use the.  The list is supr fun to play but my win/loss record is not great.  Lots of close games against good players though.  I use the same blocks of 10 Evocators and 6 Palladors with a Lord-Aquilor mostly there to move the Palladors around.  I go back and forth between Celestial Vindicators and Astral Templars.  With the Templars I've used 3-4 Ballista with an ordinator, I typically have 2 Ballista.  I've never used the Comet, but I'd like to try it.  Some thoughts on how the parts work:

Six Palladors hit really hard as Cellestial Vindicators when buffed (reroll ones to hit on charge and extra attack from command ability).  Without the command ability and reroll, they are usually disappointing.  Still good for getting a medium hitting unit in the backfield or at least forcing them to prepare for it.  I've been thinking of changing to two units of 3 when running as Astral Templars and just using them for disruption.

Dropping in Evocators doesn't really work if you don't have some way to buff the charge.  Even with Cogs (which I use sometimes) it still isn't really a great chance.  I've been using them with a Heraldor.  They work much better given a run and charge.  They do great work but tend to draw all the fire and die pretty quick.  It makes them tricky to use well because if you don't get the attack off on something useful, you end up wasting a lot of points.

I usually use two units of Hunter as battleline.  They aren't great but the shooting and coming it at 7 inches is good for disruption.  They're only 20 points more than liberators and otherwise serve the same function.

I used to use 3 hunters as battleline, but I'm swapping them for liberators because hunters like the holding power and even lethality. Even the mobility they have and the shots they put out really didn't make much difference to my games. I might keep 1 unit, possibly to hurricane them across the board to capture a far off objective. I'm really hoping the liberators and their special weapons will do some work.

Someone pointed out that if I can actually charge something with my evocators and heraldor, either i'm really lucky or my opponent made a mistake, because you can always calculate the evocators' threat range. I'll try this out first. But if not, i'll swap the comet for a heraldor.

As for using 2 units of 3 Palladors, I can tell you they're really disappointing. When there's only 3, you can really feel the lack of punch they put out, and they also feel more fragile. 

Perhaps i just don't know how to play disruption 😅

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20 hours ago, stato said:

How often do people get 'Empower' off onto a large unit of Sequitors (20)? 

Played first games with Stormcast at the weekend and couldnt manage my positioning to keep the unit 'wholly' within the Evocators, without significantly reducing the effectiveness of either or both units.  Not having a lot of units on the board i didnt feel i could just leave the Evocators babysitting the Sequitors to try and cast Empower (and hope it wasnt dispelled).

Routinley on groups of 10. 20 is a very big footprint to net though.

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Where's that shooting efficiency chart at? I want to do some theorycrafting and can't remember what page it's on.

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8 hours ago, Synidus said:

I used to use 3 hunters as battleline, but I'm swapping them for liberators because hunters like the holding power and even lethality. Even the mobility they have and the shots they put out really didn't make much difference to my games. I might keep 1 unit, possibly to hurricane them across the board to capture a far off objective. I'm really hoping the liberators and their special weapons will do some work.

Someone pointed out that if I can actually charge something with my evocators and heraldor, either i'm really lucky or my opponent made a mistake, because you can always calculate the evocators' threat range. I'll try this out first. But if not, i'll swap the comet for a heraldor.

As for using 2 units of 3 Palladors, I can tell you they're really disappointing. When there's only 3, you can really feel the lack of punch they put out, and they also feel more fragile. 

Perhaps i just don't know how to play disruption 😅

I totally understand about Hunters but Liberators aren't much different in groups of 5.  I only use Liberators when I need the extra points.  Sequitors at the same 120 are probably much better, I just don't have any built right now. 

I agree with the units of 3 Pallodors but what I'm finding is that even with 6 they don't hit hard at all.  As Celestial Vindicators they can become a bit of a hammer but without the extra attack and reroll they are only an annoyance.  They can probably do that job just as well in a unit of 3 and then I can have 2 annoyances.  That very much changes the army though and at that point I might drop the Aquilor.

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21 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Where's that shooting efficiency chart at? I want to do some theorycrafting and can't remember what page it's on.

 

stormcast shooting.PNG

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Palladors are one of the few units I don’t own/haven’t played with but they feel like the sort of unit to hold one objective then jump and cap any that are free with Winds Aetheric as the battle goes on. I wouldn’t feel comfortable charging them into anything really that wasn’t a lone hero or something. Obviously they could also serve as Zephryos delivery system but that feels incredibly situational.

Having said that I’m sure that playing predominantly Vanguard you’ll get the odd game where everything is zipping and feinting and ambushing and paper cutting the opponent to pieces and it feels amazing. I intend to have a purely Vanguard quotient up to 1.5 k precisely to play like that every now and again. 

Edited by Nos

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25 minutes ago, PJetski said:

 

stormcast shooting.PNG

Thanks!

Just a note: it looks like your Prosecutor numbers are a smidge off (should be .88 wounds for the Prime, doesn't take into account Trident Rend), the Longstrikes don't seem to take into account the MWs on 6s (shifts the numbers a bit, especially against high Armor values), and it looks like you calculated for the Rend-2 on the Castigators, but it would be interesting to also have a row for the Reroll 1s (shifts the numbers for lower armor values). Obviously a bit hard to automate in Excel but worth noting.

I've been musing a lot recently on the differences between our shooting units, so obviously the numbers are good to have offhand. I'm trying to figure out what a true shooting army would look like, and it's become quite obvious that each of our shooting units has a very distinct role, and it's hard to say any one is strictly better than another, though it doesn't look good for Castigators or Prosecutors in any case.

Building a true shooting army is actually fairly hard. We don't seem to have the numbers to wipe units, especially hordes, with any sort of efficiency. Both varieties of Crossbows are pretty good at it, but also quite short ranged and fairly expensive. Ballistas seem best at dealing with small/midsized units, while Longstrikes are clearly the best at Hero hunting (small Heroes they crush, big monsters with Anvils). Bow Judicators actually strike me as odd - despite them being so popular, their strength mainly seems to come from their range and generalist nature. They don't really put out an insane amount of value for their points, but they're pretty solid at sitting back on objectives and still contributing to the fight. 

I'm still sure there's a shooting-focused list in here, and I think it'll be necessary in the coming months between FEC, Skaven, and the new Khorne book (terrified to see what buffs they give Bloodthirsters).

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33 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Thanks!

Just a note: it looks like your Prosecutor numbers are a smidge off (should be .88 wounds for the Prime, doesn't take into account Trident Rend), the Longstrikes don't seem to take into account the MWs on 6s (shifts the numbers a bit, especially against high Armor values), and it looks like you calculated for the Rend-2 on the Castigators, but it would be interesting to also have a row for the Reroll 1s (shifts the numbers for lower armor values). Obviously a bit hard to automate in Excel but worth noting.

I've been musing a lot recently on the differences between our shooting units, so obviously the numbers are good to have offhand. I'm trying to figure out what a true shooting army would look like, and it's become quite obvious that each of our shooting units has a very distinct role, and it's hard to say any one is strictly better than another, though it doesn't look good for Castigators or Prosecutors in any case.

Building a true shooting army is actually fairly hard. We don't seem to have the numbers to wipe units, especially hordes, with any sort of efficiency. Both varieties of Crossbows are pretty good at it, but also quite short ranged and fairly expensive. Ballistas seem best at dealing with small/midsized units, while Longstrikes are clearly the best at Hero hunting (small Heroes they crush, big monsters with Anvils). Bow Judicators actually strike me as odd - despite them being so popular, their strength mainly seems to come from their range and generalist nature. They don't really put out an insane amount of value for their points, but they're pretty solid at sitting back on objectives and still contributing to the fight. 

I'm still sure there's a shooting-focused list in here, and I think it'll be necessary in the coming months between FEC, Skaven, and the new Khorne book (terrified to see what buffs they give Bloodthirsters).

I’m also interested to see how an mostly shooting list would look. When I have the models will be running the list we spoke about the other day and seeing how that develops 

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1 hour ago, Twh30 said:

I’m also interested to see how an mostly shooting list would look. When I have the models will be running the list we spoke about the other day and seeing how that develops 

Here's what I'm starting with:

Arcanum - General, Staunch, Azyrite Halo
Castellant - Lantern of the Tempest
Ordinator
Incantor - Thundershock

20 Sequitors
5 Judis - Bows
5 Judis - Bows

Ballista
Ballista
Ballista

3 Hurricane Raptors
3 Hurricane Raptors
Aetherwings
Aetherwings

Geminids

2000/2000

You get 3 types of shooting, can work at a long range (Judis, Ballistas to an extent, Geminids) or up close (Hurricanes, Ballistas). 14 drops is a lot, of course, but that gives you 7 units up top, which will usually be Ballista x3/Ordi/Hurricanes x2/Aetherwings (or can leave one one Ballista on the table if you want more anti-charge). 

To get down on drops, maybe something like:

Lord Celestant on Dracoth - General, Staunch, Ignax's Scales, Keen Clawed
Lord Relictor - Translocation
Knight Incantor - Thundershock, Mindlock Staff

5 Judis - Bows
5 Judis - Bows
5 Judis - XBows

6 Longstrike Raptors
3 Hurricane Raptors
3 Hurricane Raptors
Aetherwings
Aetherwings
Aetherwings
10 Skinks
10 Skinks

Shackles

Vanguard Justicar Conclave

1990/2000

9 Drops is still not low, but better. Still 14 drops, so Hurricanes, XBows, and Birds up high. Longstrikes and Judis should be able to drop Heroes pretty reliably, while the XBows clear out units. Not sure on the Heroes - you don't particularly need the regular buffing heroes like Castellant or Heraldor, though an Azyros might not be amiss. I kind of like the Dracoth Celestant as a mini-combat piece. He's not clearing units by himself, but he's enough of a counter-charge threat to make them think twice, and he can move quick to clean up the last couple models after the bombardment. 

Edit: you could potentially make that second list Templars, give the Relictor the chump artifact and the Dracoth Ethereal Amulet - makes it better against Monsters but worse defensively. 

Edited by Requizen

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2 hours ago, Requizen said:

Thanks!

Just a note: it looks like your Prosecutor numbers are a smidge off (should be .88 wounds for the Prime, doesn't take into account Trident Rend), the Longstrikes don't seem to take into account the MWs on 6s (shifts the numbers a bit, especially against high Armor values), and it looks like you calculated for the Rend-2 on the Castigators, but it would be interesting to also have a row for the Reroll 1s (shifts the numbers for lower armor values). Obviously a bit hard to automate in Excel but worth noting.

Prosecutors weren't being modelled properly. 2 attacks with trident at 2 damage should result in 1.78 damage on average (before rend).  Ill attach the updated version. The value in the "Total" space is without rend. Prosecutors are a pretty efficient shooting option.

I updated Longstrikes to account for the mortal wounds.

I added Castigators with reroll hit1, but it's generally worse than the Rend-2 option... it's a very minor accuracy boost but there are other sources of rrh1. 

Let me know if you have any other feedback

 

As for shooting lists, have you looked at the Shadowhammer Compact battalion from Daughters of Khaine? It's 20 Judicators + 20 Heartrenders both shooting twice per turn

stormcast shooting.PNG

Edited by PJetski
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16 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Here's what I'm starting with:

Arcanum - General, Staunch, Azyrite Halo
Castellant - Lantern of the Tempest
Ordinator
Incantor - Thundershock

20 Sequitors
5 Judis - Bows
5 Judis - Bows

Ballista
Ballista
Ballista

3 Hurricane Raptors
3 Hurricane Raptors
Aetherwings
Aetherwings

Geminids

2000/2000

You get 3 types of shooting, can work at a long range (Judis, Ballistas to an extent, Geminids) or up close (Hurricanes, Ballistas). 14 drops is a lot, of course, but that gives you 7 units up top, which will usually be Ballista x3/Ordi/Hurricanes x2/Aetherwings (or can leave one one Ballista on the table if you want more anti-charge). 

To get down on drops, maybe something like:

Lord Celestant on Dracoth - General, Staunch, Ignax's Scales, Keen Clawed
Lord Relictor - Translocation
Knight Incantor - Thundershock, Mindlock Staff

5 Judis - Bows
5 Judis - Bows
5 Judis - XBows

6 Longstrike Raptors
3 Hurricane Raptors
3 Hurricane Raptors
Aetherwings
Aetherwings
Aetherwings
10 Skinks
10 Skinks

Shackles

Vanguard Justicar Conclave

1990/2000

9 Drops is still not low, but better. Still 14 drops, so Hurricanes, XBows, and Birds up high. Longstrikes and Judis should be able to drop Heroes pretty reliably, while the XBows clear out units. Not sure on the Heroes - you don't particularly need the regular buffing heroes like Castellant or Heraldor, though an Azyros might not be amiss. I kind of like the Dracoth Celestant as a mini-combat piece. He's not clearing units by himself, but he's enough of a counter-charge threat to make them think twice, and he can move quick to clean up the last couple models after the bombardment. 

Edit: you could potentially make that second list Templars, give the Relictor the chump artifact and the Dracoth Ethereal Amulet - makes it better against Monsters but worse defensively. 

Both look interesting . I do think there is a lot of list out there to use . That fact could benefit us all as people can’t get used to a single stormcast list. Was thinking lacking numbers on second list but skinks really help with that 

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7 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Prosecutors weren't being modelled properly. 2 attacks with trident at 2 damage should result in 1.78 damage on average (before rend).  Ill attach the updated version. The value in the "Total" space is without rend. Prosecutors are a pretty efficient shooting option.

I updated Longstrikes to account for the mortal wounds.

I added Castigators with reroll hit1, but it's generally worse than the Rend-2 option... it's a very minor accuracy boost but there are other sources of rrh1. 

Let me know if you have any other feedback

 

Looks good on the Castigators and Prosecutors. I keep expecting Castigators to be better in general (relatively cheap Rend-2 is nothing to scoff at), but man they just kinda underperform, don't they?

Prosecutors actually seem pretty reasonable. Maybe there's something to Vanguard Wing as a shooting list after all, 3 of them + a larger sized unit of Judis could put out some honest ranged damage and keep drops down. Worth testing.

Crunching numbers on the Longstrikes, they're just off a bit, looks like it's not calculating the 2 MWs from 6s correctly. Should be 3.33/3.78/4.22/4.66/4.66/4.66, unless I'm crunching numbers wrong (2.67 * save + 2MW).

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7 minutes ago, Twh30 said:

Both look interesting . I do think there is a lot of list out there to use . That fact could benefit us all as people can’t get used to a single stormcast list. Was thinking lacking numbers on second list but skinks really help with that 

Yeah when in doubt, Skinks are often the answer. We do pretty much everything else quite well, but Skinks can give that little extra oomph when it comes to zoning and scoring.

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14 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Yeah when in doubt, Skinks are often the answer. We do pretty much everything else quite well, but Skinks can give that little extra oomph when it comes to zoning and scoring.

Be interested to see a shorty vanguard wing army may have to try it 

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19 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Looks good on the Castigators and Prosecutors. I keep expecting Castigators to be better in general (relatively cheap Rend-2 is nothing to scoff at), but man they just kinda underperform, don't they?

Prosecutors actually seem pretty reasonable. Maybe there's something to Vanguard Wing as a shooting list after all, 3 of them + a larger sized unit of Judis could put out some honest ranged damage and keep drops down. Worth testing.

Crunching numbers on the Longstrikes, they're just off a bit, looks like it's not calculating the 2 MWs from 6s correctly. Should be 3.33/3.78/4.22/4.66/4.66/4.66, unless I'm crunching numbers wrong (2.67 * save + 2MW).

3 shots with a 1/6 chance to headshot is 0.5 headshots per volley. 0.5 headshots at 2 mw = 1 mortal wound on average

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