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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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Registered to ask this question.

I see a lot of talk of Anvils lists with 3x Ballista plus Ordinator, Sequitor Battleline, and 10x Evocators. What makes this list work? Do the ballista go in the sky and deepstrike to get 18” range or start on the table? Where is the synergy with the Command Trait, as it can only be used in the hero phase so Ballista already need to be on the table and you can’t buff all three, and/or Evocators need to be in combat already without Gav deep strike.

Wouldnt this list work better as Astral Templars  as you get the +1 vs monsters and 6” pre game move to deliver the Evocators?

This list has done well in tournaments recently so I’m really missing something.

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20 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Registered to ask this question.

I see a lot of talk of Anvils lists with 3x Ballista plus Ordinator, Sequitor Battleline, and 10x Evocators. What makes this list work? Do the ballista go in the sky and deepstrike to get 18” range or start on the table? Where is the synergy with the Command Trait, as it can only be used in the hero phase so Ballista already need to be on the table and you can’t buff all three, and/or Evocators need to be in combat already without Gav deep strike.

Wouldnt this list work better as Astral Templars  as you get the +1 vs monsters and 6” pre game move to deliver the Evocators?

This list has done well in tournaments recently so I’m really missing something.

I would agree that perhaps Templars is more efficient. I think many people just saw "shoot an extra time" and looked at how efficient Ballistas are and hoped for the best, but you are correct that they're a poor overall choice for the CA. Still, if the Evocators are in combat and can pile in twice with the CA, that's pretty great, and using a point on a Ballista is not a terrible use of efficiency. 

Basically, the list would be - wall of Sequitors backed by Evos, drop in with Ballistas and delete something, let them get charged, countercharge with Sequitors/Evocators, push across for the win. It's a lot like the Longstrike version of the list, but less reliant on the Anvils ability and more efficient if you have to drop in or conserve command points. Ultimately it comes down to choice.

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16 hours ago, RocketMan said:

Was thinking about this 

anvils 

relictor/veritant 

heraldor

incantor 

Incantor 

azyros(some doubt start here...just for 1turn rerolls ? Isn’t better to get a castellan to boost evocators?) 

2x5 libs 

5 juds 

10 evocators (5 2hw)

9 longstrikes 

2x3 eatherwings

1980/2000

 

what your thoughts about this? 

I can change juds for another libs unit and change one incantor with an arcanum on gryphchaeger/foot 

 

i would like to find points for a comet...

up

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Had a friendly game with my buddy last night.
Here was the list I ran.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Azyr
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Meteoric Standard
Knight-Heraldor (100)
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 6x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 6x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Retributors (440)
- 4x Starsoul Maces
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
- 2x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
5 x Evocators (200)
- 4x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

Pride leader with only 1 set of Dracolines is pretty useless and very cost heavy too. I still have to grasp that my leader and the dracolines are more of a support unit(s) not a roll in guns blazing kick ass take names unit. I lost my leader and Evo's on Draco's at the end of round 1. They should have stayed behind my big blocks of Seq's and came out when needed.
Not having any shooting really put me at a huge disadvantage as far as weaken enemies down before they charged in. 

My golden stars were my Vex and Heraldor. Vex was able to drop Meteoric standard for some early damage to units and the Heraldor sweet horn blast wrecked some units a few times. They provided rerolls for charge and the Run plus charge was pretty sweet. 

Another big mistake I made was putting my Retribtuors in reserve. Not only did miss my turn 1 deep strike deploy but I didn't put the Vex with them to help provide a re-roll if I needed it for a charge. Lucky for me it wasn't needed I rolled a 11 and got to my target.

All in all I am going to have to consider Libs over Seq's if I plan to dump Evo's. Adding in shooting guys is a must. Use Lib lines to protect my support guys as we advance. Ret's are still solid they came in and packed a mean punch just have to be ensured they can make that charge roll or it's for nothing.

In total I own about 10 Evo's on foot and 1 set of Evo's on dracolines. I assume I need another Dracoline box and how many more Evo's on foot?

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1 hour ago, RocketMan said:

up

If you really want a Comet, swap the Judicators to Libs and drop one unit of Aetherwings. 

As for the Azyros, I find him useful for a few reasons - the rerolls and MWs are nice, but also he's just a fast Hero, so quite useful in 3 Places of Power and the like, plus as a quick moving support piece. You could probably swap him out for a Castellant but honestly you really want your Evos and Longstrikes to be at max effectiveness, so the rerolls are basically godlike for that.

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42 minutes ago, Rotten said:

Had a friendly game with my buddy last night.
Here was the list I ran.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)
- General
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Azyr
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Meteoric Standard
Knight-Heraldor (100)
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 6x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 6x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Retributors (440)
- 4x Starsoul Maces
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
- 2x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
5 x Evocators (200)
- 4x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
 

Pride leader with only 1 set of Dracolines is pretty useless and very cost heavy too. I still have to grasp that my leader and the dracolines are more of a support unit(s) not a roll in guns blazing kick ass take names unit. I lost my leader and Evo's on Draco's at the end of round 1. They should have stayed behind my big blocks of Seq's and came out when needed.
Not having any shooting really put me at a huge disadvantage as far as weaken enemies down before they charged in. 

My golden stars were my Vex and Heraldor. Vex was able to drop Meteoric standard for some early damage to units and the Heraldor sweet horn blast wrecked some units a few times. They provided rerolls for charge and the Run plus charge was pretty sweet. 

Another big mistake I made was putting my Retribtuors in reserve. Not only did miss my turn 1 deep strike deploy but I didn't put the Vex with them to help provide a re-roll if I needed it for a charge. Lucky for me it wasn't needed I rolled a 11 and got to my target.

All in all I am going to have to consider Libs over Seq's if I plan to dump Evo's. Adding in shooting guys is a must. Use Lib lines to protect my support guys as we advance. Ret's are still solid they came in and packed a mean punch just have to be ensured they can make that charge roll or it's for nothing.

In total I own about 10 Evo's on foot and 1 set of Evo's on dracolines. I assume I need another Dracoline box and how many more Evo's on foot?

There are a few mistakes in this list. General of Hammer of sigmar must take that god-forged blade as its aretifact. a unit of 10 sequitor can bring at most 5 great mace( 2 greatmace every 5 people and one for the prime). 

Edited by HammerOfSigmar

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@HammerOfSigmar I am pretty sure when I read the BT for the seq's a unit of 5 can have two great mauls and the prime can take mace and shield or Great maul. Which would give the unit 3 Mauls. The host yea I screwed that up completely I have to have that weapon period. Maybe I should have used Hallowed Knights?

*edit "to" correction "two"

Edited by Rotten
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4 minutes ago, Rotten said:

@HammerOfSigmar I am pretty sure when I read the BT for the seq's a unit of 5 can have two great mauls and the prime can take mace and shield or Great maul. Which would give the unit 3 Mauls. The host yea I screwed that up completely I have to have that weapon period. Maybe I should have used Hallowed Knights?

*edit "to" correction "two"

It’s fine for the unit of 5 but it dosent multiply by 5, it’s 2 per every 5 plus one for the Prime, so it’s a max of 5 with 10, 7 with 15, 9 with 20.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Rotten said:

@HammerOfSigmar I am pretty sure when I read the BT for the seq's a unit of 5 can have two great mauls and the prime can take mace and shield or Great maul. Which would give the unit 3 Mauls. The host yea I screwed that up completely I have to have that weapon period. Maybe I should have used Hallowed Knights?

*edit "to" correction "two"

Each unit can have only one prime, not every 5 model. That's what you misunderstood.

Since you are not using any named character, you are not forced to used the hammer of sigmar.  You can try something else such as anvils.  I don't think hallowed knights are a good choice, since its CA is kind of overlap with heraldor. Its battle trait, to be honest, 6+ to ignore spells or endless spells, is very useless since 6+ is not easy to get. The artefact and command trait does not suit arcanum. It fits some 10+w hero doing tons of damage with melee attackes, maybe stardrake?

 

One more thing, I also love the retributor and they are much more handsome than the evocators. However, from a game aspect, they get outperformed by the evocator in every aspect.

Edited by HammerOfSigmar

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If you took a LO as general with astral Hammers so has the CV Command trait and rolled multiple sixes how would that work? Would you count the multiple sixes for the MW aspect as well as the individual 6’s for each 2 damage strike instance? That seems logical but not sure.

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2 minutes ago, Nos said:

If you took a LO as general with astral Hammers so has the CV Command trait and rolled multiple sixes how would that work? Would you count the multiple sixes for the MW aspect as well as the individual 6’s for each 2 damage strike instance? That seems logical but not sure.

Astral Hammers just deals d3 Mortals after the attacks, so if you rolled multiple 6s, those hits would deal 2 damage if they wound and then you would also deal d3 MWs at the end. 

If you're talking about the Grandhammer, if you roll a 6 then it does MWs and the sequence ends, so he gets no bonus out of the Command Trait.

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1 hour ago, Requizen said:

Astral Hammers just deals d3 Mortals after the attacks, so if you rolled multiple 6s, those hits would deal 2 damage if they wound and then you would also deal d3 MWs at the end. 

If you're talking about the Grandhammer, if you roll a 6 then it does MWs and the sequence ends, so he gets no bonus out of the Command Trait.

Yeah the double hammers. Thanks! I’ve a friendly Nighthaunt game coming up and I’m thinking about going CV. NH’s access to MW’s and ability to shake off attacks favours a less defensive, more attack multiplying sort of play I’m thinking. 

Edited by Nos

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I have never thought about a situation where a Celestial Vindicators Ordinator would be in melee, and had a command point to spend, and there were no better uses for that command point, and then you roll 2+ 6s to hit 😂

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1 hour ago, PJetski said:

I have never thought about a situation where a Celestial Vindicators Ordinator would be in melee, and had a command point to spend, and there were no better uses for that command point, and then you roll 2+ 6s to hit 😂

It’s a Command trait not an ability so no command points needed. And I deepstrike Ordinator and a Ballista in pretty frequently to clear out objectives or heroes who are camping, if tactically appropriate. The 9” for Scions means you can charge in with LO in most instances without sacrificing his buff for the Ballista.

I doubt I’ll make him general in those instances but was just thinking about the ramifications of 8 attacks re-rolling 1’s on which rolling 6’s had various applications. Glad you got a laugh out of it though. Easily amused I guess. 

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I'm trying to fill the last elite spot in a list and I'm having trouble deciding which to go with. 

In a vacuum: do you take a single unit of Dracolines or Fulminators. 

In general which do you rate more highly if you want to take a "faster than infantry unit that fights well on the charge?"

Edited by Black Blade

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36 minutes ago, Black Blade said:

I'm trying to fill the last elite spot in a list and I'm having trouble deciding which to go with. 

In a vacuum: do you take a single unit of Dracolines or Fulminators. 

In general which do you rate more highly if you want to take a "faster than infantry unit that fights well on the charge?

Can't judge them in a vacuum. What's the rest of your list?

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7 hours ago, Nos said:

It’s a Command trait not an ability so no command points needed. And I deepstrike Ordinator and a Ballista in pretty frequently to clear out objectives or heroes who are camping, if tactically appropriate. The 9” for Scions means you can charge in with LO in most instances without sacrificing his buff for the Ballista.

I doubt I’ll make him general in those instances but was just thinking about the ramifications of 8 attacks re-rolling 1’s on which rolling 6’s had various applications. Glad you got a laugh out of it though. Easily amused I guess. 

It's a difficult thing to do i think, because the ballistas need to be wholly within.

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41 minutes ago, Synidus said:

It's a difficult thing to do i think, because the ballistas need to be wholly within.

Shooting Phase occurs before charge phase, so not really.

Scion in

Shooting Phase

Charge Phase

Assuming LO makes charge you then have 3” move with Ballista which will usually cover wholly within, then shooting phase again. If he didn’t make it last time he only moves 5” before attempting to charge on the second turn so again is comfortably wholly within anyway.

 

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33 minutes ago, Nos said:

Shooting Phase occurs before charge phase, so not really.

Scion in

Shooting Phase

Charge Phase

Assuming LO makes charge you then have 3” move with Ballista which will usually cover wholly within, then shooting phase again. If he didn’t make it last time he only moves 5” before attempting to charge on the second turn so again is comfortably wholly within anyway.

 

Actually you're right. That was a brain ****** moment.

That could be quite interesting actually. So he can support your entire frontline with his command ability. Nice

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Here's a tweaked list that i made::

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Tempest Lords
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Bonds of Noble Duty 
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm 
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Incantor (140)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (400)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128

I know the point about having only one spellcaster to cast Everblaze, but unless i have a stardrake or tauralon (both of which i don't have) there's not much else i can do to increase my casting chances.

The ordinator, ballistas & evos will be deepstriking. While the Aquilor will be roaming and flanking with the palladors.

What do you guys think?


Thanks in advance

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39 minutes ago, Synidus said:

Actually you're right. That was a brain ****** moment.

That could be quite interesting actually. So he can support your entire frontline with his command ability. Nice

I mean it’s not something to build a list around or anything, he’s there as a Ballista buff first and foremost so you put him wherever they need to be. But in a lot of instances I’ve found the Ballistae don’t need to be too far away from the main line anyway.

As my guy is the dual hammers guy he gets six attacks which makes him a good candidate for an artefact that has lots of hit multipliers so I’ve experimented with it now and again. As I’ve said elsewhere a LO with Sword of Judgement and Ballistae make a really good monster or hero hunter if that’s an important target consideration in whatever game you’re playing. 

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Morning all,

just a quick one i am interested in starting a SC list but i am swaying towards a heavy shooting list, from what i have read so far the ballista is auto take. would Judicators be the way to go  or does it make more sense to to go towards the vanguard chamber? 

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2 hours ago, Temp said:

Morning all,

just a quick one i am interested in starting a SC list but i am swaying towards a heavy shooting list, from what i have read so far the ballista is auto take. would Judicators be the way to go  or does it make more sense to to go towards the vanguard chamber? 

I would like to know this also. The list doing well at the moment is something like:

Lord arcanum

Heraldor or vexillor

Castellant

Ordinator

10-20 Sequitors 

5 Sequitors 

5 Sequitors 

10 Evocators / 6 Dracolines

3 Ballista

How important are the 5 Sequitors? Can they be substituted for 2x 5 Judicators for more shooting power or does that leave the list too light on shooting with only 2 combat units (big Sequitors and Evocators).

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I played 3 Ballistas and an Ordinator in a tournament last weekend. They were a continual disappointment. I deep striked them along with the Ordinator within 18" of a priority target and usually took it out or heavily damaged it (they do hit really hard). But then they usually get charged by some chaff and have to shoot at them for the following 2-3 turns. Or they just get killed if they are outside of cover. Then they are soooooo slow and clunky. Only 3" move and each unit counts as only one model, so once they're deployed they aren't going anywhere, and they can't hold objectives very well. I found them to be a complete liability not worth 440 points. Use maybe one or two Ballistas as fire-support, but don't use an entire Ordinator battery. Not worth it.

Edited by Marzillius

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