AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Ozzy0sb]

I'm going to a small 16 player tournament soon. It's the first time I am going to play more competitively. This is the list I came up with. I think it looks strong, any advises would be great. I never played any objective games before.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Units
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 76
 

[Turragor]

13 hours ago, PJetski said:

Which units in particular?

Mortal Wounds can be a very useful tool, but I dont think Mortal Wound spam is a great strategy overall right now. While some armies are very weak to MWs (Stormcast, Seraphon, Idoneth, Sylvaneth) there are loads of popular and powerful armies that can shrug or mitigate them (DOK, LON, NH, Khorne, Tzeentch) and you would be better off doing damage through standard attacking.

The list I took made use of the Stardrake (one of the 2 breaths), prime, heraldor & dracoth breath attacks.

So not focused on mw shooting, but on paper it looked like I had no shooting so that caught opponents off guard when they setup I think.

Ido think you are right, I'm still working out what I like and what works. Rule of cool is playing a big part in my decision I think. Plus fewer models with interesting options (the primes guaranteed charge was crucial for me a few times) gives that 'surgical strike' feel I've always liked in wargames.

[Ozzy0sb]

9 hours ago, Ozzy0sb said:

I'm going to a small 16 player tournament soon. It's the first time I am going to play more competitively. This is the list I came up with. I think it looks strong, any advises would be great. I never played any objective games before.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender
Lord-Celestant (100)
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Units
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 76

I made a mistake for the leaders, I'm taking Lord-Castellant  not  Lord-Celestant.

 

Side note, can you edit post on this forums?

[Nos]

16 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Well, in non-hammer list, how does we guarantee charges for evocators? Just let it to reach the enemy in round 2?

If you dont want to stick them on Cat horses then Heraldor and taking second usually gets them in by turn 2.  

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Ozzy0sb said:

I made a mistake for the leaders, I'm taking Lord-Castellant  not  Lord-Celestant.

 

Side note, can you edit post on this forums?

Click “edit” 😉

Your 20 Sequitors are hella strong but 5 Sequitors and 5 Evocators are easy to chip away with MW and spells. Against numbers you’re never going to win objective battles, which are most battle plans. If I line up against that then I just take my biggest objective taking unit to the smaller group and just keep a small group in place to snipe the one held by the bigger one. Either you lose the weakly held one or you lumber over your massive unit to enforce that point and I nick the one the big unit was guarding.

If you’re going with LA as general I’d go

Lord Arcanum

Castellant

2 x 10 Sequitors 

Then work out with  the remaining 240 points what else your plan is. Two units of 10 Sequitors requires most factions a lot more than 480 points of enemy models to clear with any speed.

5 Evocators is strong but only if they get to charge with their full compliment. That’s unlikely to happen if you try to run them across the table without the aid of a Heraldor, but if you drop them in you have no way of ensuring a charge. On top of that you’re also missing out on their ability to cast a buff spell for at least one turn which is a big part of their value. At this level if you keep 200 points off the table for several turns and fail to Make a charge, that’s going to be pretty damaging against a good opponent. Even in that instance you need to pretty much wipe their target in one turn as without a hero to buff their movement/charge they’re going to be pretty much confined to whatever table quarter they land in for most of the battle, so you need to make sure they can confidently cap an objective for several turns.

If you’re intending to Scion in without a buff then it’s a gamble basically. There’s a part of me which wonders if it wouldn’t be better to take a LO and Ballista. It’s another gamble like the Evocators but is more tactically flexible, as you can deploy them pretty much anywhere and gurantee a return, and if it pays off at 1000 points you could easily wipe a unit or two, or cause so many casualties that you can just walk your Sequitors up the field and push them off their objectives . LO battleshock aura is big at 1000 points. Also if you give him sword of Judgement with 6 attacks he has an excellent chance of killing heroes and monsters.

If any of the scenarios are Total Commitment expect to struggle. Army is cumbersome with nothing to help it make those vital charges. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Nos

[Ozzy0sb]

Thanks Nos, Do you think going with your suggestion and 2 ballista + Pendulum for the other 240 would be viable? I also have Lord arcanum on dracoline and some dracoline evocators, they would give me more mobility but they feel hard to fit in a 1000 point army.

 

How about 2 brick of 20 sequitor and the lord arcanum 😀

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Ozzy0sb

[Nos]

2 hours ago, Ozzy0sb said:

Thanks Nos, Do you think going with your suggestion and 2 ballista + Pendulum for the other 240 would be viable? I also have Lord arcanum on dracoline and some dracoline evocators, they would give me more mobility but they feel hard to fit in a 1000 point army.

 

How about 2 brick of 20 sequitor and the lord arcanum 😀

 

If you wanted to go for two Ballistae I’d be tempted to sack the Castellant for a Celestant, March him and his half of the Sequitors up the table and then when you’re within charge range drop the two Ballistae within 9” of the target unit, or, if they’re within 18 inches of your original objective, drop them there. They will be shooting on 5’s  but between 8 shots with them, D6 MW shots with war cloak, LC and 10 Sequitors hitting on 2 and re-rolling misses there’s not much going to be left standing after that. Next turn you can run up the ballista with a CP if you dropped it on that side of the table and then you have the rest of the game to shoot 8 shots at anything while your Celestant Sequitor unit can threaten another objective or go back and camp the one at base. If you give your LA Dais instead of Pendulum then you’ve a good chance of getting 2 dispels, and also the 12” fly means you can get them around nice and easy with a 2+ save. If you were to say give them Celestial Blades as a spell if you get that off you gurantee whatever you cast it on will make a big mess.

With a Castellant and General with SD you’re basically committing yourself to defence, in terms of making the most of what your army has. Nothing wrong with that but you’re unlikely to win games by waiting people out. You’ll be hard to kill but most AOS games prioritise sacrifice for objectives over keeping units whole but static.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Nos

[AngryPomeranian]

I have trouble in killing big flesh-eater monsters. (cos of screen, healing,lots of wounds and fnp). Any suggestions?

[Black Blade]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:58 AM, Kelsicle said:

Thanks for the reply, do you mind expanding on the logic behind the 10 man sequitor squad? Are there bonuses with squad size or is it just a bigger stick kinda deal? 

These are about all the models I own so in terms of filling that 160pts I’d either be going shopping or looking for a battalion. If I were looking for another model/unit what would you suggest? I could pick up a second Knight incantor for some more hero phase shenanigans or another HQ for buffs maybe a Gav? 

Sorry it took so long to respond. 

So 5 man Sequitor squads are too thin to take advantage of the benefits they have over Liberators. Liberators die slow, thats all they are good for right now and having 10 instead of 5 doesn't help that. With 10 sequitors you can have a 5 man front hitting with their tough weapons while the shields in the back soak up 10 wounds before the unit loses combat effectiveness. Plus if you buff them its twice as effective and several times more effective than a boosted 10 man Lib squad. 
 

Knight Incantors are never a bad choice, also we have some decent to amazing Endless Spells. Consider the Comet. 160 isnt enough but more Evocators are always a good thing.

[Black Blade]

11 minutes ago, AngryPomeranian said:

I have trouble in killing big flesh-eater monsters. (cos of screen, healing,lots of wounds and fnp). Any suggestions?

I've got some bad news for you. It's about to get a lot worse.

A lucky Ballista, Evocators or even Sequitors are usually our best damage dealers.

[Requizen]

20 minutes ago, AngryPomeranian said:

I have trouble in killing big flesh-eater monsters. (cos of screen, healing,lots of wounds and fnp). Any suggestions?

Ranged is generally the best option for us against monsters. Chipping them down before they reach melee reduces the punch, and killing them outright is better.

Other than that, any of the hard-hitting melee units will make short work of one... assuming you go first. Protectors (6s!), Retributors, Evocators (mounted or not), Fulminators, or Concussors should all make relatively short work of a big monster, but are also the prime targets for said monsters. It's a bit of a game you have to play - if you get charged, you die or at least lose a huge chunk of the unit. If you charge, you generally remove or at least cripple the monster before it swings. 

A big part about playing against heavy threats (monsters, big scary units like Grimghasts or other Evos, etc) is not particularly counterpicking, but also making sure you engage in such a way that you deal the most damage before taking any yourself. Stormcast are actually a lot more fragile than it would seem. While we have great saves and wound counts, our army also loses effectiveness super quickly once we take damage, especially if you go heavy on one or two important units. You have to play aggressively while also protecting the aggressive units.

Hope that helps!

[Black Blade]

I started a separate topic on the implications of some of the new releases for other armies might have for our own Stormcast.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Black Blade

[Ozzy0sb]

9 hours ago, Nos said:

If you wanted to go for two Ballistae I’d be tempted to sack the Castellant for a Celestant, March him and his half of the Sequitors up the table and then when you’re within charge range drop the two Ballistae within 9” of the target unit, or, if they’re within 18 inches of your original objective, drop them there. They will be shooting on 5’s  but between 8 shots with them, D6 MW shots with war cloak, LC and 10 Sequitors hitting on 2 and re-rolling misses there’s not much going to be left standing after that. Next turn you can run up the ballista with a CP if you dropped it on that side of the table and then you have the rest of the game to shoot 8 shots at anything while your Celestant Sequitor unit can threaten another objective or go back and camp the one at base. If you give your LA Dais instead of Pendulum then you’ve a good chance of getting 2 dispels, and also the 12” fly means you can get them around nice and easy with a 2+ save. If you were to say give them Celestial Blades as a spell if you get that off you gurantee whatever you cast it on will make a big mess.

With a Castellant and General with SD you’re basically committing yourself to defence, in terms of making the most of what your army has. Nothing wrong with that but you’re unlikely to win games by waiting people out. You’ll be hard to kill but most AOS games prioritise sacrifice for objectives over keeping units whole but static.

That looks like an interesting strategy, I would have to get/paint a celestant but that should not be a problem. I do have the Dais Arcanum but was under the impression that LA cant use it. Unless there is an errata I missed? The scroll says it cant be used by units with 6 or more HP, LA has 6. I could also ditch the Pendulum and take Asteia Solbright instead of LAoF, I would not run Hammers but she still looks strong without he CA.

If LA can hop on dais with staunch defender would that not make him almost invincible except for mortal wounds?

Could you elaborate on what the other half of the sequitors would be doing during that battle.  I'm assuming camping my base objective.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Ozzy0sb

[Twh30]

Come up with this list just wondered opinions on how successful would be? Has lot wounds so could be strong . Haven’t decided on stormhost thinking mayb anvils or the extra movement one? Plan is to drop ballistas down blast lot off while pick targets with judicators . Palladors to harass and capture objectives.

[Nos]

12 hours ago, Ozzy0sb said:

That looks like an interesting strategy, I would have to get/paint a celestant but that should not be a problem. I do have the Dais Arcanum but was under the impression that LA cant use it. Unless there is an errata I missed? The scroll says it cant be used by units with 6 or more HP, LA has 6. I could also ditch the Pendulum and take Asteia Solbright instead of LAoF, I would not run Hammers but she still looks strong without he CA.

If LA can hop on dais with staunch defender would that not make him almost invincible except for mortal wounds?

Could you elaborate on what the other half of the sequitors would be doing during that battle.  I'm assuming camping my base objective.

Apologies you’re quite right. Never taken a LA on foot only ever done the Dais with Incantor so wasn’t a consideration. As you say it would be pretty spectacular! 

Obviously it’s situational re what to do with Sequitors but without any buffs to movement, most objectives being held by model count and most armies having the ability to summon/teleport/deepstrike then straying more than 6” away from more than one of your objectives is a pretty massive risk. You don’t want to lose a tight game because your Sequitors are 7 inches forward and someone has snuck in 5 bloodletters 2 inches away from the objective or whatever. Obviously Sequitors have the capacity to trade well with a lot of things and push the enemy off an objective as well, but danger is that you fail a charge, get stuck, and you’re neither contesting one or holding one. In which case you have 240+ points which are essentially worthless for a turn. 

The main thing you have to watch in that situation though is that the “aggressive” unit dosent get swamped on its advance. Against most armies that shouldn’t be an issue but against fast movers they can leave an objective while still being better placed than you to either pile in to a fight or get back and defend. But that’s why I suggested the Ballista and Lord Ordinator in reserve, it should give must opponents pause for thought in leaving an objective as it can do damage without being move or charge dependent. Good pinning unit.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Nos

[Ozzy0sb]

On 2/5/2019 at 9:35 PM, Ozzy0sb said:

I very much appreciate the advice Nos. This will be my first real  competitive game and I am very exited to bring my stuff. I think I did a good job painting my warriors. I'll post pics and results. The tournament is on the 23rd  this month. Just started this hobby and I must say... I love it!

 

[Joeyj001]

Question, can I do a relictor bless weapons on a ballista?   I’m sure it’s not as good as putting it on a big unit with lots of attacks,  but I’m just curious. So if I understand it, each hit roll of 6 would be 2 x d6 hits  cuz each hit is already d6 hits and bless weapons doubles up the hits if you roll a 6.

But the ballista warscrol says it is d6 hits for every hit roll that scores a hit by the ballista.  And bless weapons isn’t a hit roll per say. So if you roll a 6 on a hit, would that mean it’s d6 hits + 1. Or is it 2x d6 hits? 

Thanks! 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Joeyj001

[stato]

4 minutes ago, Joeyj001 said:

Question, can I do a relictor bless weapons on a ballista?   I’m sure it’s not as good as putting it on a big unit with lots of attacks,  but I’m just curious. So if I understand it, each hit roll of 6 would be 2 x d6 hits  cuz each hit is already d6 hits and bless weapons doubles up the hits if you roll a 6.

But the ballista warscrol says it is d6 hits for every hit roll that scores a hit by the ballista.  And bless weapons isn’t a hit roll per say. So if you roll a 6 on a hit, would that mean it’s d6 hits + 1. Or is it 2x d6 hits? 

Thanks! 

 

Think this is covered in the lastest FAQ, bonuses only apply once so it would probably be d6 hits + 1.

[Joeyj001]

19 minutes ago, stato said:

Think this is covered in the lastest FAQ, bonuses only apply once so it would probably be d6 hits + 1.

Oh bummer. Thanks for the clarification bruddah! 

[CareBear]

I'm pretty new to this hobby (my first year), and I wondered what you think of this 2000 points competetive list?  (I apologize if the english isn't on point, I'm norwegian and thus english is not my main language)

 

Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (General, 240 pts)    Having a hard time picking a mount trait. Any advice?

Lord Ordinator  (140)

Knight Azyros (100)

Lord Castellant (100)

Gavriel Sureheart (100)

20  sequitors (400, 9 greatmaces)

5  sequitors (120,  3 greatmaces)

5 Liberators (200, 1  grandhammers)

10 Evocators (400, would appreciate any tips on loadout)

3 Celestar Ballistas (300

 

139 wounds    2000/2000 points

 

I would really appreciate any help. 

 

How would you load the evocators (spell and weapons)? Any tactical advice on how to play it,? Should I swap the LAoGC for a LA on foot and an extra command point? Or should i keep the gryph charger?

 

 

[HammerOfSigmar]

5 hours ago, Twh30 said:

Come up with this list just wondered opinions on how successful would be? Has lot wounds so could be strong . Haven’t decided on stormhost thinking mayb anvils or the extra movement one? Plan is to drop ballistas down blast lot off while pick targets with judicators . Palladors to harass and capture objectives.

Since there is no lord aquilor in your list, I do recommend you the fly the pallador's to 3" away from the enemy that sits on the objectives and then use ballistas to shoot down the enemy sitting on the objective. Then the objective is yours. That's the best way to use palladors currently, which I can figure out.

[Nos]

2 hours ago, Ozzy0sb said:

 

No problem happy to help.

Hope your army does well but more than that I hope you have fun and that your opponents do and are fun to play as well. As long as everyone enjoys it, as with most things, that’s the main thing!

[Karragon]

50 minutes ago, CareBear said:

I'm pretty new to this hobby (my first year), and I wondered what you think of this 2000 points competetive list?  (I apologize if the english isn't on point, I'm norwegian and thus english is not my main language)

 

Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (General, 240 pts)    Having a hard time picking a mount trait. Any advice?

Lord Ordinator  (140)

Knight Azyros (100)

Lord Castellant (100)

Gavriel Sureheart (100)

20  sequitors (400, 9 greatmaces)

5  sequitors (120,  3 greatmaces)

5 Liberators (200, 1  grandhammers)

10 Evocators (400, would appreciate any tips on loadout)

3 Celestar Ballistas (300

 

139 wounds    2000/2000 points

 

I would really appreciate any help. 

 

How would you load the evocators (spell and weapons)? Any tactical advice on how to play it,? Should I swap the LAoGC for a LA on foot and an extra command point? Or should i keep the gryph charger?

 

 

When running 10 evocators I usually run 5 with tempest blade & stormstave in the front and 5 with grandstaves in the back. I think math wise the grandstaves are fractionally better in most circumstances. The 2" range lets them attack from the back row but I do like to keep some rend around. Spell wise it doesn't really matter what you give them as in almost all circumstances they will be casting empower.

Personally I hate Gavriel and I think relying on him hurts people far more often than he helps but if you do want to take him 1 CP from your turn is not enough, you need 2 at a minimum.

Mount trait wise I like the +1" move, generally though you'll see a lot of the +1 die for Ride the Winds Aetheric.

LA vs LAoGC. The LA is probably only better if you desperately need the points, his CA is frankly...garbage compared to the LAoGCs though his spell is interesting, it's also a shame to lose the massive movement potential of the LAoGC in an army that is otherwise pretty slow.

Tactics wise, I'm no expert and I'm sure better skilled player will correct me, but it's a bit unsure of what it wants to be. If you're going Gavriel you want to be deep striking him and 10 evocators probably + 20 sequitors and deleting all your opponents important stuff near the back of their army. You probably also want to be deep striking the Azyros to get him into position for his buff and also the Ordinator + Ballista nest...which is a problem because that's  more than 1/2 your army that wants to be deep striking.

I'd probably go Ordinator + Ballista + Gavriel + Evocators in the sky. Rush the Azyros forward , drop the ballista nest to take out the screen, drop Gavriel and the Evocators and sure charge whatever "elite" unit was behind the screen. Sequitors can sit on objectives and generally refuse to die (20 Sequitors + Castellant lantern will take some shifting, especially with the LA/LAoGC nearby to give them a 6+ ignore wounds and MWs)

[CareBear]

7 minutes ago, Karragon said:

When running 10 evocators I usually run 5 with tempest blade & stormstave in the front and 5 with grandstaves in the back. I think math wise the grandstaves are fractionally better in most circumstances. The 2" range lets them attack from the back row but I do like to keep some rend around. Spell wise it doesn't really matter what you give them as in almost all circumstances they will be casting empower.

Personally I hate Gavriel and I think relying on him hurts people far more often than he helps but if you do want to take him 1 CP from your turn is not enough, you need 2 at a minimum.

Mount trait wise I like the +1" move, generally though you'll see a lot of the +1 die for Ride the Winds Aetheric.

LA vs LAoGC. The LA is probably only better if you desperately need the points, his CA is frankly...garbage compared to the LAoGCs though his spell is interesting, it's also a shame to lose the massive movement potential of the LAoGC in an army that is otherwise pretty slow.

Tactics wise, I'm no expert and I'm sure better skilled player will correct me, but it's a bit unsure of what it wants to be. If you're going Gavriel you want to be deep striking him and 10 evocators probably + 20 sequitors and deleting all your opponents important stuff near the back of their army. You probably also want to be deep striking the Azyros to get him into position for his buff and also the Ordinator + Ballista nest...which is a problem because that's  more than 1/2 your army that wants to be deep striking.

I'd probably go Ordinator + Ballista + Gavriel + Evocators in the sky. Rush the Azyros forward , drop the ballista nest to take out the screen, drop Gavriel and the Evocators and sure charge whatever "elite" unit was behind the screen. Sequitors can sit on objectives and generally refuse to die (20 Sequitors + Castellant lantern will take some shifting, especially with the LA/LAoGC nearby to give them a 6+ ignore wounds and MWs)

Why do you think Gavriel hurts more then he helps?

The plan currently is to deepstrike Gavriel+10 evocators to delete important targets, deepstrike ballistas+ordinator on an objective, keep the sequitors and the castellant on a point (defend it) and use the azyros to support the ballistas and the mortal wound bomb.

[HammerOfSigmar]

16 minutes ago, Karragon said:

When running 10 evocators I usually run 5 with tempest blade & stormstave in the front and 5 with grandstaves in the back. I think math wise the grandstaves are fractionally better in most circumstances. The 2" range lets them attack from the back row but I do like to keep some rend around. Spell wise it doesn't really matter what you give them as in almost all circumstances they will be casting empower.

Personally I hate Gavriel and I think relying on him hurts people far more often than he helps but if you do want to take him 1 CP from your turn is not enough, you need 2 at a minimum.

Mount trait wise I like the +1" move, generally though you'll see a lot of the +1 die for Ride the Winds Aetheric.

LA vs LAoGC. The LA is probably only better if you desperately need the points, his CA is frankly...garbage compared to the LAoGCs though his spell is interesting, it's also a shame to lose the massive movement potential of the LAoGC in an army that is otherwise pretty slow.

Tactics wise, I'm no expert and I'm sure better skilled player will correct me, but it's a bit unsure of what it wants to be. If you're going Gavriel you want to be deep striking him and 10 evocators probably + 20 sequitors and deleting all your opponents important stuff near the back of their army. You probably also want to be deep striking the Azyros to get him into position for his buff and also the Ordinator + Ballista nest...which is a problem because that's  more than 1/2 your army that wants to be deep striking.

I'd probably go Ordinator + Ballista + Gavriel + Evocators in the sky. Rush the Azyros forward , drop the ballista nest to take out the screen, drop Gavriel and the Evocators and sure charge whatever "elite" unit was behind the screen. Sequitors can sit on objectives and generally refuse to die (20 Sequitors + Castellant lantern will take some shifting, especially with the LA/LAoGC nearby to give them a 6+ ignore wounds and MWs)

You don't actually need to put Azyros on the sky, it can move 12", run d6", and its reroll bubble is 10", so enemy within 22+d6" will be affected on the first turn,

Actually, if you play graviel bomb, you will find out that the 60 points from using LA will let you have 2 CP(plus the one from cleansing phalanx and subtract one to autopass battleshock since SCE will have more drops than your opponents) at the beginning of first turn, which almost guarantee a successful 9" charge(except double 1), which is great.

Edited February 7, 2019 by HammerOfSigmar