AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[schwabbele]

8 hours ago, Black Blade said:

Question, do i need to pick my Stardrakes jaws targets all up front, or pick one roll one/repeat so i can target a lone model with all 3

It says for each bite pick a target, so pick roll repeat is ok imho. 

[Lucur]

It also says pick one or more targets after the pile in, no mention of successive bites. If you only wanna pick one, go ahead

[chord]

16 hours ago, PJetski said:

The Thunderhead Brotherhood is much improved, although you have to run HAMMERS OF SIGMAR, Liberators still suck, and Judicators are still overpriced.

Hammerstrike Force is probably much better than the original, but as long as Retributors and Prosecutors are overpriced it won't be worth running. It would be really interesting to run it with Decimators since they already want to hit big units.

I haven't seen points for these - are they even legal in matched play?

Original Hammerstrike where I can drop the paladins in, or still just a bonus?

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, chord said:

Original Hammerstrike where I can drop the paladins in, or still just a bonus?

I mean the Hammerstrike in the latest battletome

[Euphanism]

Ok, so on the Stardrake, if he can't pile in due to already being in base contact, does his bite attack trigger? Or does it 'wiggle' enough to count as a move?

Here's what the ability says:

After this model makes a pile-in move, this model’s Stardrake can bite one or more enemy models with its cavernous jaws. The number of bites it can make is shown on the damage table above. For each bite, pick one enemy model within 3" of this model and roll a dice. If the roll is greater than that model’s Wounds characteristic, it is slain.
 

[chord]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

I mean the Hammerstrike in the latest battletome

oh bummer so lackluster

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, Euphanism said:

Ok, so on the Stardrake, if he can't pile in due to already being in base contact, does his bite attack trigger? Or does it 'wiggle' enough to count as a move?

Here's what the ability says:

After this model makes a pile-in move, this model’s Stardrake can bite one or more enemy models with its cavernous jaws. The number of bites it can make is shown on the damage table above. For each bite, pick one enemy model within 3" of this model and roll a dice. If the roll is greater than that model’s Wounds characteristic, it is slain.
 

As long as the drake isn't locked from 2 models which would avoid a pile in completely he can still pile in and finish as close as before

That is one of the reasons I would run an Herlador with a drake, retreat and charge again for the fun

[Nos]

41 minutes ago, chord said:

oh bummer so lackluster

Such a shame that you can’t take the Battalion that essentially broke the last version of the game right.

It was basically DDOS with dice. It needed to die.

[chord]

24 minutes ago, Nos said:

Such a shame that you can’t take the Battalion that essentially broke the last version of the game right.

It was basically DDOS with dice. It needed to die.

It could have been adjusted , change to wholly within or a larger buffer from enemies.

As it stands now its not even worth considering. 

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, chord said:

It could have been adjusted , change to wholly within or a larger buffer from enemies.

As it stands now its not even worth considering. 

To be fair, most of the SCE battalions are not worth considering other than Phalanx and Skyborne Slayers (and in my opinion, Vanguard Justicar). 

The issue is that historically, any time a SCE battalion has been good, it's been so good it broke the game. Warrior Brotherhood was absolutely busted. Skyborne Slayers was not necessarily broken, but in the early days there was little to no way to deal with dropping in, and even now some armies just can't deal with it altogether. Vanguard Wing broke the game, and was still fairly busted even after the nerf. Aetherstrike was absurdly strong in like 80% of matchups and only wasn't used because VWing was busted. Same for Hammerstrike - it was so good that a moderately played one would just win games without trying, only held back by the fact that VWing was better.

I think GW is just afraid of giving Stormcast strong Battalions. Our units, Allegiance Abilities, Ally matrix, and combos are already so good that as soon as a Battalion becomes strong, it almost becomes overwhelming, so rather than experiment with strong but balanced Battalions they plan on just dropping them altogether, which I dislike but understand.

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

To be fair, most of the SCE battalions are not worth considering other than Phalanx and Skyborne Slayers (and in my opinion, Vanguard Justicar). 

The issue is that historically, any time a SCE battalion has been good, it's been so good it broke the game. Warrior Brotherhood was absolutely busted. Skyborne Slayers was not necessarily broken, but in the early days there was little to no way to deal with dropping in, and even now some armies just can't deal with it altogether. Vanguard Wing broke the game, and was still fairly busted even after the nerf. Aetherstrike was absurdly strong in like 80% of matchups and only wasn't used because VWing was busted. Same for Hammerstrike - it was so good that a moderately played one would just win games without trying, only held back by the fact that VWing was better.

I think GW is just afraid of giving Stormcast strong Battalions. Our units, Allegiance Abilities, Ally matrix, and combos are already so good that as soon as a Battalion becomes strong, it almost becomes overwhelming, so rather than experiment with strong but balanced Battalions they plan on just dropping them altogether, which I dislike but understand.

Yeah this. I don’t think we need anything more to help us be effective. And if you want batallions for fluff etc there’s no shortage of good stuff in that respect either. Compared to every other faction we have loads of everything in every respect.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Nos

[mmimzie]

Howdy guys,

I was wondering what makes evocators on dracolions good?

[chord]

4 hours ago, Requizen said:

To be fair, most of the SCE battalions are not worth considering other than Phalanx and Skyborne Slayers (and in my opinion, Vanguard Justicar). 

The issue is that historically, any time a SCE battalion has been good, it's been so good it broke the game. Warrior Brotherhood was absolutely busted. Skyborne Slayers was not necessarily broken, but in the early days there was little to no way to deal with dropping in, and even now some armies just can't deal with it altogether. Vanguard Wing broke the game, and was still fairly busted even after the nerf. Aetherstrike was absurdly strong in like 80% of matchups and only wasn't used because VWing was busted. Same for Hammerstrike - it was so good that a moderately played one would just win games without trying, only held back by the fact that VWing was better.

I think GW is just afraid of giving Stormcast strong Battalions. Our units, Allegiance Abilities, Ally matrix, and combos are already so good that as soon as a Battalion becomes strong, it almost becomes overwhelming, so rather than experiment with strong but balanced Battalions they plan on just dropping them altogether, which I dislike but understand.

I agree GW doesn't want to make SCE too good cause people will complain.  I'm not talking about broken like the Warrior Brotherhood etc. 

[mooseboy18]

i heard some people saying sequitors are a better choice to liberators for roughly the same price, is this true? i much prefer the aesthetics of liberators  

[Bradipo322]

2 hours ago, mooseboy18 said:

i heard some people saying sequitors are a better choice to liberators for roughly the same price, is this true? i much prefer the aesthetics of liberators  

Anybody would reply with a "yes, they are better", and this is true but have you tried to confront the warscrolls? The difference between Liberators and Sequitors are glaring as the sun.

For just 20 more points you get:

- better attacks (3+ 3+ versus 4+ 3+)

- more damaging attacks (you have 3 special weapons versus 1)

- more survivability (you may choose to reroll al failed save rolls)

"Liberators or Sequitors?" isn't even a question someone should ask anymore, Sequitors are just better in anything.

[schwabbele]

7 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Howdy guys,

I was wondering what makes evocators on dracolions good?

From what I have gathered, a LAoD +Pride Leader makes them deliver a serious punch on the charge, combined with an Heraldor they could be quite a threat on the board.

I will try such an list as soon as I get my 2nd box + Astreia.

 

[mooseboy18]

26 minutes ago, Bradipo322 said:

Anybody would reply with a "yes, they are better", and this is true but have you tried to confront the warscrolls? The difference between Liberators and Sequitors are glaring as the sun.

For just 20 more points you get:

- better attacks (3+ 3+ versus 4+ 3+)

- more damaging attacks (you have 3 special weapons versus 1)

- more survivability (you may choose to reroll al failed save rolls)

"Liberators or Sequitors?" isn't even a question someone should ask anymore, Sequitors are just better in anything.

thanks for the help with that, im brand new and wasnt sure. would most people be ok if i proxied liberators as sequitors? because i much prefer the aesthetics of liberators 

[AverageBoss]

42 minutes ago, mooseboy18 said:

thanks for the help with that, im brand new and wasnt sure. would most people be ok if i proxied liberators as sequitors? because i much prefer the aesthetics of liberators 

You would need to ask your individual opponents. Without modifying the models, the default answer would be no, as it could cause confusion.

Also keep in mind that while Sequitors are a better battleline than Liberators, they are not exactly a fantastic "elite" choice. Many consider them not taking outside battleline, as there are better non-battleline options. They only become battleline if you are running a Lord Arcanum as your general. If you are not doing that, Liberators are fine for a cheap battleline option.

[Karragon]

16 hours ago, Euphanism said:

Ok, so on the Stardrake, if he can't pile in due to already being in base contact, does his bite attack trigger? Or does it 'wiggle' enough to count as a move?

Here's what the ability says:

After this model makes a pile-in move, this model’s Stardrake can bite one or more enemy models with its cavernous jaws. The number of bites it can make is shown on the damage table above. For each bite, pick one enemy model within 3" of this model and roll a dice. If the roll is greater than that model’s Wounds characteristic, it is slain.
 

He can make a pile in move of 0" 

From the Core Rules FAQ:

Quote

Q: Sometimes an ability is used after a model moves. When this is the case, assuming the model is allowed to make a move, if I decide to leave it stationary, can I still use the ability? A: Yes. For the purposes of the Age of Sigmar rules, if a model is allowed to move, you can choose to ‘move’ it 0 inches.

 

[Lucur]

9 hours ago, mmimzie said:

Howdy guys,

I was wondering what makes evocators on dracolions good?

Most people are of the opinion that Evocators on foot are better, as they are cheaper and deal more damage per point. The advantages of Dracolines are in mobility and reliability, imo. They are fast, thus don't need to be scions'ed on the board and dont get stranded after obliterating their initial target. They reroll charges if you go for the long bomb charge. Add a Heraldor to get the most out of run and charge/ retreat and charge, add a Lord Arcanum on Dracoline for bonus attacks and maybe even defense with thundershock and revives. Evocators on foot may be more efficient, but Kittycators are clearly more fun to play around with

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, Karragon said:

He can make a pile in move of 0"  

How would we handle this from the FAQ:

Quote

Q: When one of my models piles in, if it is equally close to two

different enemy models, do I have to finish the move as close or

closer to each of those models? For example, if my model is in

base contact with two enemy models, does it have to finish a

pile-in move in base contact with both those models?

A: Yes to both questions – if this is impossible the model

cannot move.

I was under the impression 2 model would lock a unit, however if a move can be 0" for pile in then that would also count ? But this would imply a move is also a pile in? Damn I am confused now

Edited January 23, 2019 by schwabbele

[Lucur]

The only case where the Drake couldn't move would be if he's just barely in contact with enemy models at the "pointy" ends"of his elliptical base, otherwise you'd still be able to turn on the spot and maintain b2b contact.

Edit: that's assuming no terrain interferes ofc

Edited January 23, 2019 by Lucur

[Karragon]

1 hour ago, schwabbele said:

How would we handle this from the FAQ:

I was under the impression 2 model would lock a unit, however if a move can be 0" for pile in then that would also count ? But this would imply a move is also a pile in? Damn I am confused now

If it's in base to base contact with 2 models and it moves 0" it's still in base to base contact with both those models, so it's a legal pile in. I don't think there's a contradiction there. 

[Isotop]

1 hour ago, Karragon said:

If it's in base to base contact with 2 models and it moves 0" it's still in base to base contact with both those models, so it's a legal pile in. I don't think there's a contradiction there. 

Correct. There is no categorical difference between moving 3, 5, 1000 or 0 inches. Some people have the concept of "moving 0" = not moving at all" on their minds. But this concept, while being somewhat intuitive, is not represented in the rules in any way.

[Nos]

6 hours ago, Bradipo322 said:

Anybody would reply with a "yes, they are better", and this is true but have you tried to confront the warscrolls? The difference between Liberators and Sequitors are glaring as the sun.

For just 20 more points you get:

- better attacks (3+ 3+ versus 4+ 3+)

- more damaging attacks (you have 3 special weapons versus 1)

- more survivability (you may choose to reroll al failed save rolls)

"Liberators or Sequitors?" isn't even a question someone should ask anymore, Sequitors are just better in anything.

I think it's situational. In respect to getting the most value out of your points, especially with an army which struggles with maneuvering, I think Liberators serve a purpose in certain circumstances. If you want to either create a battleline as an anvil or hold objectives, and all you want from said unit is to not die fast and choke the point,  Liberators can do this as well as Sequitors with more models for less. If you need a sacrificial unit to hold up some Morghast or Kurnoth Hunters or something, that's a waste of Sequitor's potential killing power, which they do have, and you've lost points on the board you could have used elsewhere. It's not a waste of Liberators potential-you're getting the maximum amount from them. Meanwhile the points saved there can be spent on units whose purpose is exclusively to do damage, in a position where they're able to do it. 

My current default strategy is to have a line of Liberators whose job it is to hold my part of the board, buffed with SD and a Castellant and a Priest and Azyr Halo, and then have pretty much everything else off the board. Enemy can't bring all of it's forces to bear on that line because they have to keep things back in anticipation of your elite units, and a big lump of Liberators doesn't cost that many points but is saving on a 2+ rerolling ones and causing mortal wounds on a 6 and healing wounds on a 5+, and if you take the requisite spell and that and the priest's prayer goes off you can make an enemy -2 to hit. You can choke up a huge portion of the enemy for a small points outlay and then use every other point in your army for elites. Currently favour Evos, Evos on Dracolines and then hit squads of 5 sequitors who with their 3 maces each are bringing more attacks to bear with a smaller footprint and more versatility than a single unit of 15, and ideally served to nick objectives and push others off them. 

I think good opponents make you waste the value of your own units and maximise their own, and Liberators in that sense can provide a far greater economy for holding portions of the board than Sequitors in certain scenarios.  Against an elite or evasive army I would probably take Sequitors because straight trades are more likely, but against a Horde army or one dependent on Characters I would take the Liberators for them to grind on and then let my Elites take the game to their backline. 

Also, and just as important, I actually love the models and enjoy their Yeomanry presence on the table. They make a nice visual default that enhances the charisma of the Elite units. 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Nos