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AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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22 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

Is there a reason why Stardrakes are getting less and less common on the battlefield ? I've seen so little in 2.0

When you take a big, expensive model, no matter how tough it is, it gets punked by mortal wounds or hyper buffed units these days. I still want a dragon, they’re pretty awesome. But it’s very low on my priority list at this point.

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12 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

Is there a reason why Stardrakes are getting less and less common on the battlefield ? I've seen so little in 2.0

Its because how nagash is popular these games. You take model for 500/600 pts and PUFF nagash eat it with 50% chance.

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:47 PM, ShepHammer said:

Command abilities have the potential to drastically impact games of AOS.  This is not true of every command ability though.  The CAs with the most potential for abuse often can stack, or they trigger an effect with more impact than simply dice-fixing.

The tempest lords caught my eye because their battle trait has significant potential in comparison to the other stormhosts. But unfortunately, the command abilities with the most potential for abuse are limited to Hammers of Sigmar, Anvils of the Heldenhammer, and even Celestial Warbringers.

For your vanguard chamber units, lords of the azyrite hurricane can't be 'spammed', and vanguard units are typically fielded in small units that prefer to shoot rather than charge. This means that inspiring presence, at the double, and forward to victory are all next to useless. Tempest lords provide almost no help to Vanguard units.

The story is better for sacrosanct units. There is one particular unit combination that would be effective with tempest lords. Take a lord-arcanum on dracoline, and run him near a unit of evocators on dracolines, take the pride leader mount trait on the lord arcanum. If that hero is within 6" of any of your units, he will have +1 to hit and +1 to wound on all of his attacks. Hitting and wounding on 2s with 7 multi-damage attacks is fantastic, and don't forget to break your spirit flasks on the turn you charge. I just recently man-handled a 20-strong unit of grimghast reapers with a lord-arcanum on dracoline charge. This lord arcanum has a great outlet for all of those extra tempest lord command points. If you can keep your formation tight enough, you can "spam" pack alpha, giving you as many additional dracoline attacks for the evocators as you have CPs.

As to whether or not you should 'give up' on tempest lords.... it depends. If you have painted your models in tempest lords colors and it is important to you that your model colors match their stormhost, you should keep going with tempest lords.  Embrace their character as noble lords and peerless battlefield commanders. Lean in to their strengths, which are leveraging the most powerful generic command abilities and having an extra hard-hitting warlord.

If you painted your models in a generic scheme, or it doesn't matter to you if the colors match the stormhost, then experiment with the others. My personal opinion is that staunch defender has lost a lot of its AOS1.0 luster. Having played many games using Hammers of Sigmar and Anvils of the Heldenhammer stormhosts, it became apparent that it wasn't as necessary as it first seemed. In my meta, my stormcast armies are not winning many attrition battles. My success against maggotkin, daughters of khaine, and sylvaneth has been achieved by surrendering early victory points, appearing in aggressive locations, delivering a crippling attack, then keeping the pressure up until I table (or essentially table) my opponent.  Bonds of noble duty would be welcome help for that strategy.

Long live the Blue-Blooded! :)

If I have Astreia Solbright can I use her as a lord-arcanum and run that war scroll? 
Also, I am very new to the Stormcast and keep making some simply mistakes. How many Great Mauls can be used in a unit of 5 
Sequitors? I assumed it was 1 Great Maul for 5 but I think I saw something it might be 2 Great mauls for a unit of 5.

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12 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

Is there a reason why Stardrakes are getting less and less common on the battlefield ? I've seen so little in 2.0

They are unkillable but they don't do a lot of damage. Our best offensive options are better suited in specific stormhosts (Hammers, Anvils, Celestial Vindicators, Astral Templars) which stop you from taking Staunch Defender + Ignax's Scales. Once you account for Stardrake, Castellant, and battleline you're already at 1000 points so there isn't much room left to build an offensive core. 

An ideal Stardrake list is one that utilizes his +1 cast effect, but Stormcast wizards are expensive and only cast one spell per turn.  I have been workshopping a list that runs allied Slann + Skink Starpriest for 4 spells at 340 points, but it only seems to be viable if you are playing with Realm Spells, and in that scenario you probably want to just play Seraphon instead for the insane casting ranges...

1 minute ago, Rotten said:

If I have Astreia Solbright can I use her as a lord-arcanum and run that war scroll? 
Also, I am very new to the Stormcast and keep making some simply mistakes. How many Great Mauls can be used in a unit of 5 
Sequitors? I assumed it was 1 Great Maul for 5 but I think I saw something it might be 2 Great mauls for a unit of 5.

As long as your opponent says it's fine. I haven't met anyone that isn't willing to accept that proxy.

The warscroll for Sequitors says they can have 2 Greatmaces per 5 models, and an additional one on the Sequitor-Prime. So a squad of 5 can take 3, a squad of 10 can take 5, 15 can take 7, 20 can take 9.

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18 minutes ago, PJetski said:

They are unkillable but they don't do a lot of damage. Our best offensive options are better suited in specific stormhosts (Hammers, Anvils, Celestial Vindicators, Astral Templars) which stop you from taking Staunch Defender + Ignax's Scales. Once you account for Stardrake, Castellant, and battleline you're already at 1000 points so there isn't much room left to build an offensive core. 

An ideal Stardrake list is one that utilizes his +1 cast effect, but Stormcast wizards are expensive and only cast one spell per turn.  I have been workshopping a list that runs allied Slann + Skink Starpriest for 4 spells at 340 points, but it only seems to be viable if you are playing with Realm Spells, and in that scenario you probably want to just play Seraphon instead for the insane casting ranges...

As long as your opponent says it's fine. I haven't met anyone that isn't willing to accept that proxy.

The warscroll for Sequitors says they can have 2 Greatmaces per 5 models, and an additional one on the Sequitor-Prime. So a squad of 5 can take 3, a squad of 10 can take 5, 15 can take 7, 20 can take 9.

If you take a Drakesworn Templar, give him the Smouldering Helm (MW to attackers on a save 6+) then buff him with a Castellant and SD making the SH proc on a 4+ and fly him into a horde or something with dozens upon dozens of attacks they do a lot of damage while also doing an excellent job as an unkillable tarpit.

As ever though for Stormcast MW’s are a bane

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3 minutes ago, Nos said:

If you take a Drakesworn Templar, give him the Smouldering Helm (MW to attackers on a save 6+) then buff him with a Castellant and SD making the SH proc on a 4+ and fly him into a horde or something with dozens upon dozens of attacks they do a lot of damage while also doing an excellent job as an unkillable tarpit.

As ever though for Stormcast MW’s are a bane

Why not just use a Lord-Celestant instead? His rerolled saves are already causing mortal wounds, you can take Ignax's Scales for a 4+ ignore against mortals, and you can buff him with Azyrite Halo to make save6 reflect even more damage back on attackers. Drakesworn seems like a lot more risk for a lesser reward.

 

On another topic, has anyone tried Anvilstrike with 20 Judicators? Doing some quick napkin math, assuming both are shooting at a target with an Azyros to reroll hit1...

Longstrikes: 12 shots  at 2+/3+, Rend-2, Damage 2
Average wounds: 12-14 damage at Rend-2 plus 4 mortal wounds
Max wounds: 24

Judicators: 15 + 5D6 shots at 3+/3+ Rend-1, Damage 1 (leader has +1 hit)
Average wounds: 18 at Rend-1
Max wounds: 45

Longstrikes are more reliable because of Rend-2 (especially against units that can reroll saves) but if you are facing units that ignore Rend then maybe the Judicators are the better choice?

Other things worth considering in this comparison:

  • Judicators benefit from +Hit (like running over a target with a Tauralon)
  • Judicators have 40 wounds vs Longstrikes 24
  • Judicators are 20 models vs Longstrikes 12 (larger footprint, weaker to anti-horde attacks and battleshock tests, but can capture objectives easier?)
  • Judicators can take up to 5 anti-horde crossbows instead, making them do 5d3 MW to large units twice per turn (at a shorter range)
  • Judicators are battleline, effectively saving you 100-160 points over the Longstrikes that would need a third battleline
  • Judicators are 
  • Longstrikes are less punished by -Hit debuffs
  • Longstrikes headshots on hit6 
  • Longstrikes can command the Aetherwings to block charges (you would have to bring Hurricanes alongside Judicators)
  • Longstrikes can do some serious mortal wounds if they get charged

Seems like there might be some gas in the tank here for a 20 Judicator list.

Edited by PJetski
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13 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Why not just use a Lord-Celestant instead? His rerolled saves are already causing mortal wounds, you can take Ignax's Scales for a 4+ ignore against mortals, and you can buff him with Azyrite Halo to make save6 reflect even more damage back on attackers. Drakesworn seems like a lot more risk for a lesser reward.

 

On another topic, has anyone tried Anvilstrike with 20 Judicators? Doing some quick napkin math, assuming both are shooting at a target with an Azyros to reroll hit1...

Longstrikes: 12 shots  at 2+/3+, Rend-2, Damage 2
Average wounds: 12-14 damage at Rend-2 plus 4 mortal wounds
Max wounds: 24

Judicators: 15 + 5D6 shots at 3+/3+ Rend-1, Damage 1 (leader has +1 hit)
Average wounds: 18 at Rend-1
Max wounds: 45

Longstrikes are more reliable because of Rend-2 (especially against units that can reroll saves) but if you are facing units that ignore Rend then maybe the Judicators are the better choice?

Other things worth considering in this comparison:

  • Judicators benefit from +Hit (like running over a target with a Tauralon)
  • Judicators have 40 wounds vs Longstrikes 24
  • Judicators are 20 models vs Longstrikes 12 (larger footprint, weaker to anti-horde attacks and battleshock tests, but can capture objectives easier?)
  • Judicators can take up to 5 anti-horde crossbows instead, making them do 5d3 MW to large units twice per turn (at a shorter range)
  • Judicators are battleline, effectively saving you 100-160 points over the Longstrikes that would need a third battleline
  • Judicators are 
  • Longstrikes are less punished by -Hit debuffs
  • Longstrikes headshots on hit6 
  • Longstrikes can command the Aetherwings to block charges (you would have to bring Hurricanes alongside Judicators)
  • Longstrikes can do some serious mortal wounds if they get charged

Seems like there might be some gas in the tank here for a 20 Judicator list.

You’re paying 160 points extra for Ignax and the Command Ability basically, the rest is pretty much the same unit with the addition that Smouldering Helm can hurt models that attack it regardless of distance, not limited to 3”. Templar can also offer more tactical options with his weapons than  Celestant. 

Re the Judicator list, I did it consider it as I like to run 10 at the moment. Came to the conclusion that 620 points spent on more versatile units with a free pile-in etc is more flexible and does far more damage though.

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6 minutes ago, Nos said:

You’re paying 160 points extra for Ignax and the Command Ability basically, the rest is pretty much the same unit with the addition that Smouldering Helm can hurt models that attack it regardless of distance, not limited to 3”. Templar can also offer more tactical options with his weapons than  Celestant. 

Thundershield alone is worth 160 points. Rerolling 1s without relying on Mystic Shield is incredible, and dealing mortal wounds back to all enemies within 3" (whether they attacked you or not) will do more than an artifact that gets weaker based on enemy Rend. When you reroll saves you have more opportunities to get Azyrite Halo to activate.

Add in the fact that you can take Ignax's Scales to cut your only weakness in half... LCOD is definitely better than a Drakesworn Templar when it comes to being a damage reflect anvil unit. 

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11 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Thundershield alone is worth 160 points. Rerolling 1s without relying on Mystic Shield is incredible, and dealing mortal wounds back to all enemies within 3" (whether they attacked you or not) will do more than an artifact that gets weaker based on enemy Rend. When you reroll saves you have more opportunities to get Azyrite Halo to activate.

Add in the fact that you can take Ignax's Scales to cut your only weakness in half... LCOD is definitely better than a Drakesworn Templar when it comes to being a damage reflect anvil unit. 

You can get basically the same unit plus a Lord Arcanum for the same points who can do multiple things for you anywhere on the battlefield including casting Azyrite Halo on some Sequitors or something who can re-roll everything,  as well as casting the Halo you would have cast on the Celestant on someone else because the Templar dosent need it, or more likely casting an entirely different spell on another unit as the battle dictates, while still getting the Templar who is doing more or less the same job as the Celestant. It’s far from definitely better for that reason. 

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On 12/31/2018 at 11:47 AM, ShepHammer said:

Command abilities have the potential to drastically impact games of AOS.  This is not true of every command ability though.  The CAs with the most potential for abuse often can stack, or they trigger an effect with more impact than simply dice-fixing.

The tempest lords caught my eye because their battle trait has significant potential in comparison to the other stormhosts. But unfortunately, the command abilities with the most potential for abuse are limited to Hammers of Sigmar, Anvils of the Heldenhammer, and even Celestial Warbringers.

For your vanguard chamber units, lords of the azyrite hurricane can't be 'spammed', and vanguard units are typically fielded in small units that prefer to shoot rather than charge. This means that inspiring presence, at the double, and forward to victory are all next to useless. Tempest lords provide almost no help to Vanguard units.

The story is better for sacrosanct units. There is one particular unit combination that would be effective with tempest lords. Take a lord-arcanum on dracoline, and run him near a unit of evocators on dracolines, take the pride leader mount trait on the lord arcanum. If that hero is within 6" of any of your units, he will have +1 to hit and +1 to wound on all of his attacks. Hitting and wounding on 2s with 7 multi-damage attacks is fantastic, and don't forget to break your spirit flasks on the turn you charge. I just recently man-handled a 20-strong unit of grimghast reapers with a lord-arcanum on dracoline charge. This lord arcanum has a great outlet for all of those extra tempest lord command points. If you can keep your formation tight enough, you can "spam" pack alpha, giving you as many additional dracoline attacks for the evocators as you have CPs.

As to whether or not you should 'give up' on tempest lords.... it depends. If you have painted your models in tempest lords colors and it is important to you that your model colors match their stormhost, you should keep going with tempest lords.  Embrace their character as noble lords and peerless battlefield commanders. Lean in to their strengths, which are leveraging the most powerful generic command abilities and having an extra hard-hitting warlord.

If you painted your models in a generic scheme, or it doesn't matter to you if the colors match the stormhost, then experiment with the others. My personal opinion is that staunch defender has lost a lot of its AOS1.0 luster. Having played many games using Hammers of Sigmar and Anvils of the Heldenhammer stormhosts, it became apparent that it wasn't as necessary as it first seemed. In my meta, my stormcast armies are not winning many attrition battles. My success against maggotkin, daughters of khaine, and sylvaneth has been achieved by surrendering early victory points, appearing in aggressive locations, delivering a crippling attack, then keeping the pressure up until I table (or essentially table) my opponent.  Bonds of noble duty would be welcome help for that strategy.

Long live the Blue-Blooded! :)

This is inspiring. I've painted them up in my own blue colour scheme, but what really gets me about the Tempest Lords is their fluff. I've tried with the celestial vindicators and I love how much more punchy my army feels as a result. The drawback is that i don't have as many CPs to play with to do azyrite hurricane and also pop the command ability.

I might give Tempest Lords another try.  Here's the army list i'm working with:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Tempest Lords
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Bonds of Noble Duty 
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm 
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Azyros (100)

Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes

Units
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (400)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126
 

On 12/30/2018 at 6:00 PM, Nos said:

From a playing to win perspective you’re trading a buff which effects multiple consistent rolls (SD) for one that will be situationally useful. In a game where there’s a lot of luck involved I tend to find the things you consistently control are key, the more of those you have the more you can dictate the key moments.  

You can establish a consistently powerful defence around Staunch Defender. You can’t around a +4 dice roll and CP.

I know what you mean. For now i'm going to give the stormhosts another try.

21 hours ago, xking said:

This is is two weeks old. But it has some interesting stuff and stormcast list in it. Vince even got a tempest lords list.

 

I've seen this, and it sounds like it could be a lot of fun. But it'll take too much money for me to change to a full sacrosanct army (which is what Vince recommends).

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13 minutes ago, Synidus said:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Tempest Lords
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Bonds of Noble Duty 
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm 
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Azyros (100)

Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes

Units
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (400)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126

I'm happy to provide some constructive criticism on this list, and I will make sure to maintain a narrative perspective.  And I won't suggest that you dump almost everything for the sacrosanct army.  I'll suggest some stuff for you to start thinking about spending your Christmas money on though. :)

As I mentioned before, the lord-arcanum on dracoline is a good thing to think about in the future, but the lord-aquilor does hit just as hard, his mount is just a little less of a bruiser, and you trade the impressive flasks for an unimpressive gun.  But I get it, you are running a vanguard force that is supported by a sacrosanct chamber, not the other way around.  I like your choice of mount trait since you will be fighting when it is wise to do so. 

The knight-incantor and the comet are a big risk, even in narrative games. With no bonuses to cast, and only a single 5-wound model that is eligible to cast the comet, you might spend three turns trying to cast it, then lose your wizard before it ever goes off. I would highly suggest cutting the comet for a third ballista and changing the knight-incantor into a lord-ordinator. That cluster of units has been incredibly effective for me and many other players at all levels of competition. For the purposes of fluff, you can imagine that your lord-aquilor has arranged for the ordinator and his equipment to arrive on his signal, once the target has been located.

The battleline looks fine to me, go get objectives and murder the enemy objective holders.

Regarding the vanguard-palladors: In the context of this list, I'd love to see something that hits a lot harder.  I like what they offer in a vacuum, but you've got so much shooting and hyper-maneuverability with scions of the storm and astral compasses, I think they just provide more of the high-cost, high-speed, low-output that you are full of already. This might be why you feel like you are missing some punch.

Speaking of punch, I love this 10-strong unit of evocators.  I'm sure it is your MVP in nearly every game you play.  The heraldor helps to deliver them and also pluck them out of combats they don't want to be in. Love it!

I think you'll see more success if you replaced the palladors with either a couple units of sequitors or more evocators.  Imagine that your lord-aquilor has been encountering stiff resistance, and has requested more hard-hitting support for his hunting mission. Lastly, I really want to strongly recommend a lord-castellant in place of your knight-azyros.  Your 400 point evocator unit is the most crucial unit in your whole force.  It could do with some more support.  The lord-castellant can deploy on the table with them, and with the lord and his hound, the evocators, and the heraldor, that will allow the ordinator and his toys to deploy in the sky. The lord aquilor and palladors (or whatever you replace them with) can start on the table when you want to compass your hunters.

With the castellant/heraldor/evocator block, you have a good outlet for your CP (and bonus Tempest Lords CP).  You'll really want to have 1 CP on-hand at all times for inspiring presence, you'll actually want 'at the double' since you can chain runs into charges, and rerolling charges with 'forward to victory' will come up a lot. If you don't manage to cast empower, you may even feel that 'rousing oratory' is worth using on the evocators.

Once you invest in more melee punch from sequitors and evocators, you'll immediately feel an improvement. You don't have to run out and buy 50 sequitors and Gavriel, but a gradual inclusion of more of those units will ramp up your punch while preserving your theme.

Hopefully that was helpful!

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On 12/30/2018 at 10:47 PM, ShepHammer said:

Command abilities have the potential to drastically impact games of AOS.  This is not true of every command ability though.  The CAs with the most potential for abuse often can stack, or they trigger an effect with more impact than simply dice-fixing.

The tempest lords caught my eye because their battle trait has significant potential in comparison to the other stormhosts. But unfortunately, the command abilities with the most potential for abuse are limited to Hammers of Sigmar, Anvils of the Heldenhammer, and even Celestial Warbringers.

For your vanguard chamber units, lords of the azyrite hurricane can't be 'spammed', and vanguard units are typically fielded in small units that prefer to shoot rather than charge. This means that inspiring presence, at the double, and forward to victory are all next to useless. Tempest lords provide almost no help to Vanguard units.

The story is better for sacrosanct units. There is one particular unit combination that would be effective with tempest lords. Take a lord-arcanum on dracoline, and run him near a unit of evocators on dracolines, take the pride leader mount trait on the lord arcanum. If that hero is within 6" of any of your units, he will have +1 to hit and +1 to wound on all of his attacks. Hitting and wounding on 2s with 7 multi-damage attacks is fantastic, and don't forget to break your spirit flasks on the turn you charge. I just recently man-handled a 20-strong unit of grimghast reapers with a lord-arcanum on dracoline charge. This lord arcanum has a great outlet for all of those extra tempest lord command points. If you can keep your formation tight enough, you can "spam" pack alpha, giving you as many additional dracoline attacks for the evocators as you have CPs.

As to whether or not you should 'give up' on tempest lords.... it depends. If you have painted your models in tempest lords colors and it is important to you that your model colors match their stormhost, you should keep going with tempest lords.  Embrace their character as noble lords and peerless battlefield commanders. Lean in to their strengths, which are leveraging the most powerful generic command abilities and having an extra hard-hitting warlord.

If you painted your models in a generic scheme, or it doesn't matter to you if the colors match the stormhost, then experiment with the others. My personal opinion is that staunch defender has lost a lot of its AOS1.0 luster. Having played many games using Hammers of Sigmar and Anvils of the Heldenhammer stormhosts, it became apparent that it wasn't as necessary as it first seemed. In my meta, my stormcast armies are not winning many attrition battles. My success against maggotkin, daughters of khaine, and sylvaneth has been achieved by surrendering early victory points, appearing in aggressive locations, delivering a crippling attack, then keeping the pressure up until I table (or essentially table) my opponent.  Bonds of noble duty would be welcome help for that strategy.

Long live the Blue-Blooded! :)

tempest lord's general have only +1 to their wound rolls, not to both hit rolls and wound rolls.

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21 hours ago, PJetski said:

On another topic, has anyone tried Anvilstrike with 20 Judicators? Doing some quick napkin math, assuming both are shooting at a target with an Azyros to reroll hit1...

Longstrikes: 12 shots  at 2+/3+, Rend-2, Damage 2
Average wounds: 12-14 damage at Rend-2 plus 4 mortal wounds
Max wounds: 24

Judicators: 15 + 5D6 shots at 3+/3+ Rend-1, Damage 1 (leader has +1 hit)
Average wounds: 18 at Rend-1
Max wounds: 45

Shouldn't the Judicator math be 16+4D6, as there can only be 1 shockbolt bow per 5? That said, the Judicator group will be 80 points cheaper, but with less range/rend... both will have their situations to shine I imagine. 

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Just now, Freejack02 said:

Shouldn't the Judicator math be 16+4D6, as there can only be 1 shockbolt bow per 5? That said, the Judicator group will be 80 points cheaper, but with less range/rend... both will have their situations to shine I imagine. 

Ah, you're right. That takes a D6 out of the equation, which is about 1 less damage on average and 5 less max damage.

Judicators and Longstrikes have the same range in the hero phase, since the Longstrikes don't get their range bonus in the hero phase. Judicators have a threat range of 29" (5" move + 24" shooting) while Longstrikes are max 30".

I think another factor to consider is that the Judicators are a battleline choice, which saves you at least 100 points from not having to bring a 3rd battleline choice. Judicators are effectively 180 points cheaper than Longstrikes in this kind of list.

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34 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Actually, if you want to deal with units ignoring weapon rend, hurricane crossbow is better than judicator....

In an Anvilstrike list you want 24" range weapons to ensure you can reach the targets you want to hit.

Hurricanes only do 6 shots in the hero phase - they do not get the bonus shots in the hero phase.

32 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Considering damage/points, castigator is the worst in stormcast, judicator is slightly better, crossbow/longstrike is even better. 

Depends on the list...

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Where do you guys see a ruling that would stop hurricane raptors getting bonus shots or Longstrike raptors getting bonus range in the hero phase? The warscroll doesn’t say anything about the shooting phase. Is the logic that you haven’t gotten a movement phase yet? Is there an FAQ that actually clarified that?

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4 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

Where do you guys see a ruling that would stop hurricane raptors getting bonus shots or Longstrike raptors getting bonus range in the hero phase? The warscroll doesn’t say anything about the shooting phase. Is the logic that you haven’t gotten a movement phase yet? Is there an FAQ that actually clarified that?

Rapid Fire and the Longstrike ability only activate if you did not move in the movement phase of the same turn. Since you haven't had a movement phase yet when you are in the hero phase, the ability will not activate. It does not require the shooting phase, but there aren't any abilities that let you shoot in the movement, charge, combat, or battleshock phases, so it's kind of implied.

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6 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Rapid Fire and the Longstrike ability only activate if you did not move in the movement phase of the same turn. Since you haven't had a movement phase yet when you are in the hero phase, the ability will not activate. It does not require the shooting phase, but there aren't any abilities that let you shoot in the movement, charge, combat, or battleshock phases, so it's kind of implied.

I guess I just never thought about it. I just went to a tournament at the end of last year where someone was using anvils and a large unit of Longstrikes, and I can’t remember how they played it, but knowing that might’ve been a huge factor in their opponents’ games.

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8 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

tempest lord's general have only +1 to their wound rolls, not to both hit rolls and wound rolls.

Please reread the example I gave. I was including the mount trait 'pride leader' (pg. 125 of Stormcast Battletome) in that calculation.  

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