azdimy Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Regarding Gavriel Surecharge, I would change his command ability to be used in the hero phase instead of the charge phase so it doesn t garantee units to teleport in the ennemy unit the sce player wants to delete I think he would still have a place with that change, not just the auto include, forget any other list type of hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOfSigmar Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Roodie said: Hey all, I need your collective wisdom planning my next purchases. I feel it's time to finally try the game with the second edition, and my first choice is the Stormcast Eternals, mostly because I already have the beginnings of the army from the Soul Wars box: Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger A Knight-Incantor A Lord-Castellant with a Gryph-hound (from the Hammerhal box) 3x Evocators 5x Castigators 8x Sequitors Ballista Steelheart's Champions (from Shadespire) I'm looking for a melee-based army mostly, and I love the Liberator minis, so probably a box of liberators will be my first purchase, and the easy to build sequitor kit to bump up their numbers to 10... but after these? Help please 🙂 Lord castellant and graviel(Hammerof Sigmar)/vexillor(everything not in hammer of sigmar) is necessary, heraldor is good. Buy another 3 evocators and a box of 5 evocators on ebay, you can build one of the evocators in box to be a knight-incantor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOfSigmar Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Lucur said: @HammerOfSigmar If you consider wounds caused per point, leaving rend out will scew the numbers heavily. I know it's hard to objectively judge rend, as it gets better as the opposing save improves, but leaving it out of the equation seems worse to me. Not to forget that rend leads to consistent damage, as it smoothes out variance. I know it is good to consider the rend and armor, I am just lazy to do that for now.🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Roodie said: Hey all, I need your collective wisdom planning my next purchases. I feel it's time to finally try the game with the second edition, and my first choice is the Stormcast Eternals, mostly because I already have the beginnings of the army from the Soul Wars box: Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger A Knight-Incantor A Lord-Castellant with a Gryph-hound (from the Hammerhal box) 3x Evocators 5x Castigators 8x Sequitors Ballista Steelheart's Champions (from Shadespire) I'm looking for a melee-based army mostly, and I love the Liberator minis, so probably a box of liberators will be my first purchase, and the easy to build sequitor kit to bump up their numbers to 10... but after these? Help please 🙂 I played with this army up to 1000 points (5 Evos and 10 Sequitors though) and it's a very good foundation. Sequitors can tank and cause damage, especially against Nighthaunt or Demons, don't underestimate them. Usually deepstrike Evocators to get them there in one piece. The plus one to wound spell from the Invocation list is beastly when applied to themselves or Sequitors. Arcanum is more fragile than they might seem, definitley a supporting hero. Ballista's real value is as a psychological weapon. Drop it and watch people waste points trying to stop it. Castigators are nothing special unless against Demon or Nighthaunt but they're a 3+ to hit shooting unit with two two attacks two wounds and a 4+ armour save, they're far from disgraceful. 6 of them are a Surprisingly good tarpit/distraction at 1000 points. Many units aren't big enough to finish 12 4+ (3+ with Staunch Defender) saves at that level and if they are chances are they'll waste a lot of their potential through overkillinging them rather than your key units. Also potential rend minus two scioning in is a nice threat or assassination squad for "safe" casters or support heroes. The main issue I've found is lack of bodies for objectives and the means to stop the modifiers that cause mortal wounds which are the bane of SC. So I've gone for ten judicators to hold objectives and free up other guys to fight, and a relictor to manage buffs and debuffs, for my next points drop. Edited November 19, 2018 by Nos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, azdimy said: Regarding Gavriel Surecharge, I would change his command ability to be used in the hero phase instead of the charge phase so it doesn t garantee units to teleport in the ennemy unit the sce player wants to delete I think he would still have a place with that change, not just the auto include, forget any other list type of hero Changing it to the Hero phase would once again phase him into irrelevance, as idk of anyone who would still run him and spend multiple command points if you can't deep strike him. Limiting it to a single use makes it worthwhile, but doesn't guarantee that whatever you point him at gets deleted. I suppose it would allow Dracothian Guard to start near him, get buffed for +X to charge, then use their high movement + big charge bonus to get into whatever they need to... but is that much different than just deep striking them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) Photos didn’t come out as well as I hoped, but I played against deepkin last night. My army: 3x3 Aetherwings, 3 longstrike raptors, 3 hurricane raptors, 2x5 crossbow judicators, knight venator, 5 liberators, 10 evocators, gavriel, knight azyros, and celestant prime. deepkin (mor’than): 30 thralls, 6 morsar eels, 3 moresar eels, tidecaster, volturnos, aspect of the sea, sorceress on black dragon (ally, with a malign sorcery spell that teleports up to 24”). Mission was total war or something (diagonal deployment, battle line 9” away, behemoths 24” away, everything else 18” away. 3 objectives along center line. Bit of a total route against deepkin. He went first, teleported dragon on center objective. Brought out eels onto left objective and parked. In my turn, I scions onto right objective, ran liberators forward to capture center while staying 3” away. Shot dragon off board, gav bombed the eels. Biovor blasts auto killed gavriel. Evocators killed 3 eels and celestial lightning killed volturnos. Score 2-2 after round 1. Turn 2 , I won priority. Killed most of the thralls with shooting, finished 1 squad of eels, dropped prime down and knocked aspect of the storm down to 9 wounds. He conceded the fight at this point and we packed up. Gavriel is strong. Edited November 19, 2018 by Mark Williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUFNSTUF Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 23 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said: If I remember correctly, 2 ballista+ordinator generate less damage than 3 ballista. I could potentially drop him then, add in the 3rd ballista, and change the normal Lord Arcanum to Astreia which would give me an extra command point, then I could take a stormhost as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucur Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Putting Gavriel's CA in the hero phase would allow the same shenaningans, as long as you bring a translocation priest (and get the prayer off), albeit with a larger investment. Translocate Gav to where he will be needed, use his CA in the movement phase scions in what wants to charge and there you go. I think making it single use per turn would be the preferable fix. Imo all CAs should be once per turn/round, there's nothing fun/engaging about stacking CP and getting bombed on the other end of a 3-4CP stacked overkill. If something is strong and there is no counterplay it's propably busted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 8 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said: I could potentially drop him then, add in the 3rd ballista, and change the normal Lord Arcanum to Astreia which would give me an extra command point, then I could take a stormhost as well. Stormhost have to be Hammers if you have a named character just in case you missed it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradipo322 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, Nos said: Stormhost have to be Hammers if you have a named character just in case you missed it! No, they do not. You can choose any stormhost, the caveat is that named characters won't have that stormhost abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bradipo322 said: No, they do not. You can choose any stormhost, the caveat is that named characters won't have that stormhost abilities. But most heroes specify that units affected by their abilities have to be Hammers. Gavriel can only use his ability on Hammers units for example. Astreia who was explicitly mentioned also can only apply theirs to Hammers and so on. I've got a feeling a lot of people are missing this and taking Gavriel for the charge as well as Staunch Commander etc Edited November 20, 2018 by Nos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 On 11/19/2018 at 12:25 AM, PUFNSTUF said: How does the below list look? I really wish I could fit in a 3rd Ballista but it saves me not buying another. Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsMortal Realm: GhurLord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (240)- General- Trait: Staunch Defender - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm - Spell: Azyrite Halo- Mount Trait: Savage LoyaltyLord-Castellant (100)Lord-Ordinator (140)Knight-Heraldor (100)20 x Sequitors (400)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Liberators (100)- Warhammer & Shield6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)- 4x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial BladesCelestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 127 Consider looking at actual GOOD dracoline traits instead of this garbage for your arcanum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUFNSTUF Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 hours ago, XReN said: Consider looking at actual GOOD dracoline traits instead of this garbage for your arcanum Yes staunch may not be the best actually, but you mention dracoline trait specifically, and since there are only 3, of the other two what would be better than savage loyalty? A constructive response instead of saying it's garbage would help me better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nos Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, PUFNSTUF said: Yes staunch may not be the best actually, but you mention dracoline trait specifically, and since there are only 3, of the other two what would be better than savage loyalty? A constructive response instead of saying it's garbage would help me better. They're all situational really. The 6" pile in one is a nice advantage to have if you want to fight with the LA, the +1 to hit for Dracolines is obviously nice but means you have to fight close to them restricting your command somewhat and the final trait can wreck a big fight for a horde or elite unit but again you're going to be in harms way. If you take the Smouldering Helm from Realms of Magic (saving throws of 6+ cause MW to attacker) they will proc on a 5+ with SD, 4+ if you use the LC's lantern. Combine that with Ear Bursting Roar, LA's flasks and you have an excellent hedgehog type counter attacking unit who can cause enormous damage in defence. Edited November 20, 2018 by Nos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Pride Leader + Sword of Judgment is pretty good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake3991 Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) On 11/19/2018 at 1:02 PM, Freejack02 said: Changing it to the Hero phase would once again phase him into irrelevance, as idk of anyone who would still run him and spend multiple command points if you can't deep strike him. Limiting it to a single use makes it worthwhile, but doesn't guarantee that whatever you point him at gets deleted. I suppose it would allow Dracothian Guard to start near him, get buffed for +X to charge, then use their high movement + big charge bonus to get into whatever they need to... but is that much different than just deep striking them? Could not agree more, I believe there are many competitive Stormcast builds you just don't see them because most people follow tried and true methods (which is totally reasonable considering the cost of buying/painting an army) . I'm definitely curious to see if GW takes a new stance on this in the January FAQ. Have you heard any rumors of such? Edited November 21, 2018 by jake3991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said: Yes staunch may not be the best actually, but you mention dracoline trait specifically, and since there are only 3, of the other two what would be better than savage loyalty? A constructive response instead of saying it's garbage would help me better. First, there are 3 universal and 3 dracoline specific mount traits Second, if you bother yourself by reading battletome you will find them out Third, here are dracoline specific traits: 1) Bounding Leap: Model is eligible to fight whille being within 6" of the enemy AND can pile in 6" 2) Pride Leader: Add 1 to hit rolls of DRACOLINE units wholly within 9" 3) Ear-bursting Roar: At the start of combat phase roll a dice for 1 enemy unit of your choice within 3", on 4+ that unit get -1 to their hit rolls Edited November 21, 2018 by XReN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 17 hours ago, XReN said: Consider looking at actual GOOD dracoline traits instead of this garbage for your arcanum +++ Mod Hat On +++ I know you know this but when providing critique on somebody’s list, try to provide constructive criticism. So this post you did.... 26 minutes ago, XReN said: First, there are 3 universal and 3 dracoline specific mount traits Second, if you bother yourself by reading battletome you will find them out Third, here are dracoline specific traits: 1) Bounding Leap: Model is eligible to fight whille being within 6" of the enemy AND can pile in 6" 2) Pride Leader: Add 1 to hit rolls of DRACOLINE units wholly within 9" 3) Ear-bursting Roar: At the start of combat phase roll a dice for 1 enemy unit of your choice within 3", on 4+ that unit get -1 to their hit rolls .... is good. But I just need to ask you to try and not be aggressive (such as commenting “If you bother”). We want TGA to be a fun place for everybody. Cheers 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said: +++ Mod Hat On +++ I know you know this but when providing critique on somebody’s list, try to provide constructive criticism. So this post you did.... .... is good. But I just need to ask you to try and not be aggressive (such as commenting “If you bother”). We want TGA to be a fun place for everybody. Cheers I hear you. I'll try avoid such responses in the future. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin_ozono Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I'm planning on running 3 dracolines+ de LAoD in a 1500 points list. I'm hopping that Pride leader+ pack alpha would kill anything it enters combat with. With and azyros, it could be even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucur Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I'd prioritize a Knight Heraldor over the Azyros, fall back and charge doubles the damage output of dracolines, moreso with Pride Leader and Pack Alpha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin_ozono Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 The heraldor is better but I don't have one 😂. How does he keep the pace with the dracolines, first time, drop from azyr, but after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azdimy Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sin_ozono said: The heraldor is better but I don't have one 😂. How does he keep the pace with the dracolines, first time, drop from azyr, but after? The heraldor ability is used at the beginning of the movement phase so I don t believe you can use his ability the turn he drops I guess he s positionned for the next turn? Edited November 22, 2018 by azdimy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKingInYellow Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 As a new player, what other support heroes are useful for a Sacrosanct list? I grabbed a Castellant already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOfSigmar Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 2 hours ago, TheKingInYellow said: As a new player, what other support heroes are useful for a Sacrosanct list? I grabbed a Castellant already. Graviel help your evocators and sequitors charge you enemy in one turn. Lord Ordinator help your ballista do more damage(only consider taking the ordinator if you plan to drop 3 or more ballista in your list). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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