AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[RocketMan]

4 minutes ago, AdamR said:

 

Depends what you're fighting. Dais gives you a second unbind + 2+ armour + flying, so it's pretty good on an incantor.

10 libs should be able to lock down an objective more securely.

QFT!

u're right! 10 libs in cover are very hard to remove

[schwabbele]

3 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

For me, I won't spend 100 points just for the sigmarite shield.

Don't forget you would also get the +D3 attacks on a charge  - combos nice with the heraldor and the CA allow you to re-roll failed wound roll for the drake. This can potentially add up to quite some damage.

[tamthethird]

Thoughts on the Knight Zephyros? I love the model, but not sure if it’s better played as Neave or vanilla. 

The regular Zephyros should be able to take a Realm artifact right? So that plus sword of judgement would  equal a decent mobile assassin that’s strictly better than Neave’s 2dmg versus characters. 

Anybody run one?

 

[HammerOfSigmar]

1 hour ago, tamthethird said:

Thoughts on the Knight Zephyros? I love the model, but not sure if it’s better played as Neave or vanilla. 

The regular Zephyros should be able to take a Realm artifact right? So that plus sword of judgement would  equal a decent mobile assassin that’s strictly better than Neave’s 2dmg versus characters. 

Anybody run one?

 

I can help you do some math, assuming both charging,

For neave, the average damage ignoring enemy's armor and other buff/debuff is

8*2/3*2/3*2=64/9=7.1111

For normal zephyros with sword of judgement, the average damage ignoring enemy's armor and other buff/debuff is 

7*1/2*2/3*1+7*1/6*3.5=77/12=6.417

Considering the enemy's armor(3+ for hero usually)

neave 8*2/3*2/3*2*1/2=32/9=3.556

zephyros with sword 7*1/2*2/3*1*1/2+7*1/6*3.5=5.25

Hence, it does do more damage, but is it worth the cost of one artifact, I am not so sure.

[PUFNSTUF]

9 hours ago, RocketMan said:

i think there are lot of other ways to play competitive! not only with gavriel

What would some of those be? I keep trying to make 2 ballistas and protection work, but then I want a 20 block of sequitors, which means an aquilor,  other supporting cahracters, and evos, and that brings me close to 2k haha.

[Bryan I Guess]

4 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

What would some of those be? I keep trying to make 2 ballistas and protection work, but then I want a 20 block of sequitors, which means an aquilor,  other supporting cahracters, and evos, and that brings me close to 2k haha.

Juat a quick skim through this thread can show you the multitude of lists that stormcast can bring to the table. Gavriel bombs, stardrake based lists, ranged Anvils, Thundercats [what i call my dracolines]) I will admit nowadays with how much of an upgrade Sequitors are compared to Liberators you often see Arcanum generals to bring them along, but you still see lots of Liberators and Judicators mixed in.

[AdamR]

8 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

What would some of those be? I keep trying to make 2 ballistas and protection work, but then I want a 20 block of sequitors, which means an aquilor,  other supporting cahracters, and evos, and that brings me close to 2k haha.

How about 4 ballista's + all those things?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher 
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Wind Runner
Lord-Castellant (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141
 

 

You could swap out the Heraldor for an Azyros if you wanted to make your Ballista's even shootier.

[Nos]

I don't know if Stormcast can perform with other options at the highest level.

However very few people play at the highest level so it seems a strange metric to go by. 

Stormcast are very competitive for and against the 95% of people who will use/play against them regardless of faction. And you will get better with them if you work off experience and learning them through play than just the gain saying of people obsessed with playing them at the top level that basically no-one plays at.

[tamthethird]

14 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

I can help you do some math, assuming both charging,

For neave, the average damage ignoring enemy's armor and other buff/debuff is

8*2/3*2/3*2=64/9=7.1111

For normal zephyros with sword of judgement, the average damage ignoring enemy's armor and other buff/debuff is 

7*1/2*2/3*1+7*1/6*3.5=77/12=6.417

Considering the enemy's armor(3+ for hero usually)

neave 8*2/3*2/3*2*1/2=32/9=3.556

zephyros with sword 7*1/2*2/3*1*1/2+7*1/6*3.5=5.25

Hence, it does do more damage, but is it worth the cost of one artifact, I am not so sure.

Very helpful, thank you!

I’m trying to stick to a themed list around Vanguard, so I want to use those elements of the book. I.e I don’t want to drop one of the very characterful models from that sub faction and replace it with something from Sacrosanct which is strictly better on paper. 

So thanks again! I will of course be trying to think up some other tricksy uses for this character.

[AdamR]

1 hour ago, tamthethird said:

Very helpful, thank you!

I’m trying to stick to a themed list around Vanguard, so I want to use those elements of the book. I.e I don’t want to drop one of the very characterful models from that sub faction and replace it with something from Sacrosanct which is strictly better on paper. 

So thanks again! I will of course be trying to think up some other tricksy uses for this character.

I used the Blade of Symmetry on the Zephyros in my Vanguard army, just making her a straight 2 damage vs everything. Not quite as good as Naeve vs hero's, but almost twice as good vs everything else. 

[PUFNSTUF]

5 hours ago, AdamR said:

How about 4 ballista's + all those things?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Artefact: Talisman of the Watcher 
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Wind Runner
 

I see a lot of arcanums with the azyrite Halo spell. Can you explain why that is a common choice?

[danimo]

I’ve been having a good run with the Soulstrike Brotherhood battalion in the Astral Templars stormhost. All the rend -2 shooting has been great for killing big monsters like vampire dragons and archaeon, but also pretty good against evocators and sequitors in mirror matches.

[FPC]

17 minutes ago, PUFNSTUF said:

I see a lot of arcanums with the azyrite Halo spell. Can you explain why that is a common choice?

Potential big damage exchange. If you have a wound on you + halo + castellant lantern a 6 sv roll heals you and does a mortal back at the attacking unit. Also, one way to combat SCE’s good and often rerollable saves is to drown them in wounds so you’re bound to fail some (tho this is less effective than MWs) so in a lot of cases you’ll be making tons of save rolls for many potential 6s.  

EDIT: I actually prefer celestial blades but I always seem to forget the abilities that trigger on 6s to save.

Edited November 15, 2018 by FPC

[AdamR]

2 minutes ago, FPC said:

Potential big damage exchange. If you have a wound on you + halo + castellant lantern a 6 sv roll heals you and does a mortal back at the attacking unit. Also, one way to combat SCE’s good and often rerollable saves is to drown them in wounds so you’re bound to fail some (tho this is less effective than MWs) so in a lot of cases you’ll be making tons of save rolls for many potential 6s.  

EDIT: I actually prefer celestial blades but I always seem to forget the abilities that trigger on 6s to save.

This basically. Stick it on a really resilient unit you expect to make a bucketload of saves. Sequitors are good for this, as is LCoSD. Anything with a reroll really for max effect (hence Talisman of the Watcher in the above list, so you can make the Evocators 2+ rerolling 1's).

[HammerOfSigmar]

Jesus. Quite a lot people, I think most of them are not SCE player, on FB  arguing the new SCE should have points raised since they are OP now. The SCE ratio in recent tournament win ratio isn't that high, but those comments give me an impression that SCE crush other races player so easily like LON and DOK.

[HammerOfSigmar]

I am OK for raising the new SCE points a little if the old one get points down. 

[chord]

A lot of people hate on stormcast for no reason.  Well they are just mad their favorite army does not get as many units.  

[Mark Williams]

On the subject of Facebook, I don’t seem to do very well with SCE, but I feel like I could if I played better or maybe took a better list. But in general I only have a 50% win rate with them, if even that. If many of the units I’m currently using were to go up in points cost, the main issue I would have would be trying to generate enough threats on the table.

 I don’t know if evocators are underpriced compared to the rest of the game as a whole, but I can say that relative to the rest of my army they are incredibly good, and it makes all the other options look bad. So I think that’s a problem that needs to be addressed somehow.

[Nos]

2 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Jesus. Quite a lot people, I think most of them are not SCE player, on FB  arguing the new SCE should have points raised since they are OP now. The SCE ratio in recent tournament win ratio isn't that high, but those comments give me an impression that SCE crush other races player so easily like LON and DOK.

The overwhelming majority of people don't play tournaments though so that's not really any indication.

On a casual basis i.e. The basis that most people play, I can see Stormcast winning a lot of the time. They're easy to pick up and plug into, they're good at most things , they don't require much in the way intricate law interpretation and have few weaknesses in general . For folk just playing at their clubs once a week or less with their pals as most people do, that is going to be much easier to win with than a more specialist army which might be objectively better when properly synergused or optimised but requires more practice  and precision to do so. Not to mention financial investment. You can buy an effective SC army cheaply. Other top armies are quite a bit more, and also require far more hobby hours too.

You can put most Stormcast units anywhere on the table and get them to do whatever and they'll likely do fine.  You can also paint them using whatever method and you'd have to do a really bad  job for them to not look serviceable. They give a big return for not much investment on all fronts, which is why I love them really. They're perfect to just play with, you'll have fun, your head won't hurt after, you're unlikely to disgrace yourself and if you play well and roll the averages you're pretty likely to win. I see why people who don't play them get pissed Off at them. They're the Man Utd/New England Patriots of AOS.

Sequitors should be 5-10 points more per unit honestly. My unit of 10 rarely miss all their attacks after re-rolls, they put out and survive way more than 120 points per 5. They killed a Great Unclean one about 3 times over last game, even with the relic where he regains all wounds on a 4+, and there were two left over afterwards. 240 points to keep a GU tied down for 3 turns.

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Nos

[kenshin620]

3 hours ago, chord said:

A lot of people hate on stormcast for no reason.

Well maybe being the only army to get 3 Battletomes is  valid reason.🤔

[PUFNSTUF]

2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Well maybe being the only army to get 3 Battletomes is  valid reason.🤔

With more to come since we know they will get the other chambers.

 

edit: Has anyone made the Taurelalon work? I could see one giving evos on dracolines the plus 2 run command ability with a heraldor having a long reach.

Edited November 16, 2018 by PUFNSTUF

[ledha]

8 hours ago, PUFNSTUF said:

With more to come since we know they will get the other chambers.

 

edit: Has anyone made the Taurelalon work? I could see one giving evos on dracolines the plus 2 run command ability with a heraldor having a long reach.

I played aventis firestrike several time in a 1000 pts game and he is 100% awesome.

I'm currently playing a jack of all trade 2000 pts list with the tauralon, 3x10 sequitors, 2x5 evocators, 4 balista and ordinator and it's doing well so far. Good frontline, and 4 balista with +2 to hit basically annihilate one if not two units per turn with the rapid fire. The Tauralon make the army faster (don't really need to teleport on objectives with the +2 to run), he it reasonnably hard, is resilient enough to hold several units if buffed, and being a caster make him very valuable on some objectives games, because he can be annoying to remove.

Edited November 16, 2018 by ledha

[TheKingInYellow]

4 hours ago, ledha said:

I played aventis firestrike several time in a 1000 pts game and he is 100% awesome.

I'm currently playing a jack of all trade 2000 pts list with the tauralon, 3x10 sequitors, 2x5 evocators, 4 balista and ordinator and it's doing well so far. Good frontline, and 4 balista with +2 to hit basically annihilate one if not two units per turn with the rapid fire. The Tauralon make the army faster (don't really need to teleport on objectives with the +2 to run), he it reasonnably hard, is resilient enough to hold several units if buffed, and being a caster make him very valuable on some objectives games, because he can be annoying to remove.

I'm still learning SCE, how are you getting +2 on the Ballista?  Ordinator for the +1 and then?

[AdamR]

+1 for flying over what you want to shoot with a Tauralon. 

[chord]

13 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Well maybe being the only army to get 3 Battletomes is  valid reason.🤔

Technically 4, but then people would complain about buying more battletomes.