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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

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25 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Well what’s the issue with a Lord Celestant on Dracoth? Just curious. 

Also what’s the issue with Vandus and why would I lose more often than not as opposed to this list? What’s the big difference maker? 

I don’t know anything about Stormcast but I like your list because it runs all the models I like (Prosecutors, Retributors, Judicators, Liberators etc...) 

Dracoth is too expensive for 1k points and too easy to kill right away, whille not contributing to your army anything exept his fighting power which is mediocre. 
Vandus - same deal, can be usefull even without going into the fight, but cost more and dies faster, whille also forcing you to get really under performing trait and artefact and that 1 attack buff can be taken from other source.
Difference is that even with Vandus attack buffs you will not survive the grind against a propper hoard army, whille being absolutely defenceless against any type of behemots (like zombie dragons) which are faster then you and hit like a train. You really want at least castellant in your list
 

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You guys have very clearly and accurately stated the weaknesses of vandus and/or dracoths, but I don’t see how the proposed list fixes those issues. Vandus at least has a decent command ability and damage output, and good movement. If your opponent can “easily” take him out, there’s nothing about the suggested list that fixes that problem or gives you a better chance against it. Retributors are sitting ducks and the only actual dangerous thing in the list. By removing vandus you’re reducing the number of units your opponent needs to eliminate in order to steam roll you unopposed.

I understand what you guys are saying, I just don’t agree that there’s a reliable fix for it by removing him and taking more easily-killed normal guys. I think you’re implying that having more bodies on the table will somehow win by stalling or outmanoeuvring an opponent, but if you’re opponent can “easily” kill vandus, removing the only other thing from your army that can potentially deal with that seems like a bad plan to me.

 I would urge you to try both lists at the very least. I’m willing to say I’m wrong, but I’m just telling you what I think based on playing with a similar list for quite a while.

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If you're not taking Staunch Defender at 1000pt you'll find yourself losing too many models too quickly :P

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7 hours ago, XReN said:

Dracoth is too expensive for 1k points and too easy to kill right away, whille not contributing to your army anything exept his fighting power which is mediocre. 
Vandus - same deal, can be usefull even without going into the fight, but cost more and dies faster, whille also forcing you to get really under performing trait and artefact and that 1 attack buff can be taken from other source.
Difference is that even with Vandus attack buffs you will not survive the grind against a propper hoard army, whille being absolutely defenceless against any type of behemots (like zombie dragons) which are faster then you and hit like a train. You really want at least castellant in your list
 

LCoD and Vandus are not bad for 1k points - you either have not played them well or are exaggerating to a pretty extreme degree. As for as having "mediocre fighting power", Vandus charge can 1-shot most anything you are going to see at 1k. Yes they are weak to mortals - obviously they are, they're bloody Stormcast. Is this a tournament-winning killer list? No idea, balancing is hard at 1k (especially for elite armies), but this will do fine in the vast majority of 1k games. 

Everything else Mark pretty much nailed. 

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Evening all, 

i am joining a path to glory this week at my local gw, and i am starting off with a Lord-Celestant (as i love the model) but after i am torn between 5x liberators or 5x sequitors. what do you think would be better? i hope to get the battle-tomb in the next few days but so far that's all i have. 

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5 minutes ago, Temp said:

Evening all, 

i am joining a path to glory this week at my local gw, and i am starting off with a Lord-Celestant (as i love the model) but after i am torn between 5x liberators or 5x sequitors. what do you think would be better? i hope to get the battle-tomb in the next few days but so far that's all i have. 

Sequitors are better in every way and especially in path to glory  as you don t pay more points for them nor do you require the lord arcanum tax to make them battleline

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Due to low funds I have chosen to grab two of the SCE halves of the Soul Wars box (it is costing me just over a hundred) and doing the math the two boxes (using complete units and no partial ones) comes out to 1760 points but that includes two of the Lord Arcanum on Gryph Chargers, which seems somewhat redundant and might be a bad use of 240 pts (though I don't know). How should I upgrade this I have like 60 dollars to work with and am fine with allies but more SCE is good for me.  Also is three units of 5 Sequitors a good idea or should I work on more Battleline units to boost the unit sizes?

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My army I built out of two Soul Wars boxes, 2 Judicator Boxes, and one Sequitor box (that's more than 60 bucks, sorry, but not a lot more...)  I converted a Lord Ordinator out of the spare Sequitor Prime.

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10 minutes ago, Tohshi Ydithe said:

Due to low funds I have chosen to grab two of the SCE halves of the Soul Wars box (it is costing me just over a hundred) and doing the math the two boxes (using complete units and no partial ones) comes out to 1760 points but that includes two of the Lord Arcanum on Gryph Chargers, which seems somewhat redundant and might be a bad use of 240 pts (though I don't know). How should I upgrade this I have like 60 dollars to work with and am fine with allies but more SCE is good for me.  Also is three units of 5 Sequitors a good idea or should I work on more Battleline units to boost the unit sizes?

I would add 5 Evocators (50$) and Gavriel Sureheart (35$) that should give you a solid base on the (for now) best strategy for Stormcasts: "The Gavbomb". This would cost around 63,75$ + shipping at an on-line retailer (witch should have at least a 25% discount), and would bring your total points to 2060 where you can cut a unit of Castigators to get a solid (although upgradable) list.

If you are confortable enought you could just convert some things, like a Knight Incantor could become a Lord Arcanum (on foot) and with the odd number of Sequitors you could try to convert an hero on foot out of one of them (8 Sequitors + 8 Sequitors = 16 Sequitors and you only need 15), so maybe a box of Sequitors (60$) would work the best, as it should give you one of the best battlelines that Stormcasts have and a lot of spare parts (swords, maces, shields and some arms).

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38 minutes ago, Bradipo322 said:

I would add 5 Evocators (50$) and Gavriel Sureheart (35$) that should give you a solid base on the (for now) best strategy for Stormcasts: "The Gavbomb". This would cost around 63,75$ + shipping at an on-line retailer (witch should have at least a 25% discount), and would bring your total points to 2060 where you can cut a unit of Castigators to get a solid (although upgradable) list.

If you are confortable enought you could just convert some things, like a Knight Incantor could become a Lord Arcanum (on foot) and with the odd number of Sequitors you could try to convert an hero on foot out of one of them (8 Sequitors + 8 Sequitors = 16 Sequitors and you only need 15), so maybe a box of Sequitors (60$) would work the best, as it should give you one of the best battlelines that Stormcasts have and a lot of spare parts (swords, maces, shields and some arms).

If I find a sword do you think I could make a Sequitor into Gavriel? like they are definitely the closest. I fell semi alright with doing small conversions. I guess If I pick up the Sequitor box that would let me make a close to Gavriel with swords instead of maces, I might have to take a head from one of the Lord Arcanums. Should I only run one of them? I am thinking that is the right choice.

Edits: With that added 10 Sequitors should I run 5 units of 5 or two units of 10 and a unit of 5?

Also is there anything I can do with that second Lord Arcanum? Or will he just be bits?

Edited by Tohshi Ydithe
added two questions

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1 hour ago, Tohshi Ydithe said:

If I find a sword do you think I could make a Sequitor into Gavriel? like they are definitely the closest. I fell semi alright with doing small conversions. I guess If I pick up the Sequitor box that would let me make a close to Gavriel with swords instead of maces, I might have to take a head from one of the Lord Arcanums. Should I only run one of them? I am thinking that is the right choice.

Edits: With that added 10 Sequitors should I run 5 units of 5 or two units of 10 and a unit of 5?

Also is there anything I can do with that second Lord Arcanum? Or will he just be bits?

If you settle on something simple but still recognisable then yes, unless you plan on taking part of some kind of tournament, you could get away by giving a sword to a Sequitor (just paint him somewhat different to make him stand out). I suggest modifing the Sequitor-Prime armed with a one-handed mace that is found in the big starter set, you have to cut the mace and glue on a sword with the hilt (his pose screams "charge!"), maybe give him a different helmet or a bare head amd a round shield to make him stand out more.

With Gavriel I would play a big force composed of hard-hitting units, so I would play the Sequitors in 3 squads: two 5-man squads to hold objectives and a 10-man squad to drop with Gavriel, this last squad could be composed by 15 Sequitors if you want, but I would convert even more heroes like a Lord-Relictor, a Knight-Heraldor and a Knight-Vexillor.

Then there is the second Lord-Arcanum, you could use him for bits or you could try to trade him for something else (maybe even bits that could help your conversions).

(Tomorrow I'll try to write a list).

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So I've been thinking alot about this lately and also tried it in 3 games now (not a huge amount, but playing games is time consuming :D).  I'm struggling between Fulminators and Evocators. Im not talking about a Gav Bomb list here, evocator are much better for that strategy.

Fulminators pros:
-Double the base movement speed of evocators, makes them that much more mobile
-They got a pretty decent range attack, although its relative luck dependend (also only 12" range but they fast movement makes up for it)

-Even though they got the same number of wounds, they are much tankier than evocators- > 3+ save and +1 to save on ranged attacks is better than reroll 1s

 

Fulminators cons:

-40 points more expensive

-only 2 models making the weakness of SCE even more pronounced

-Slightly less damage than evocators ( although far more luck dependent, that range attack is really hit or miss)

-need a heraldor to be very efficient (without a charge they dont do any dmg) adding more points to play them effectively


Evocators pros:
-Insane amount of dmg for 200 points
-They are wizards and get a ban and kinda ok spells

-40 points cheaper than fulminators

 

Evocators Cons:
-Standard move of 5", pretty slow. takes time to get them where they are needed

-Really Squishy, they pretty much from everything that has A range or B any form of rend

-No form of ranged attack at all

 

So what do you guys think? In an objective driven game without using the gav-bomb which unit do you prefer? What are your thoughts on these 2 units and did i forget any cons or pros?

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5 hours ago, boombyeyeah said:

Evocators are 3 wounds per modell, and they reroll saves against ranged attacks. I like them more

They reroll Save roll‘s of 1 against ranged.

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14 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

LCoD and Vandus are not bad for 1k points - you either have not played them well or are exaggerating to a pretty extreme degree. As for as having "mediocre fighting power", Vandus charge can 1-shot most anything you are going to see at 1k. Yes they are weak to mortals - obviously they are, they're bloody Stormcast. Is this a tournament-winning killer list? No idea, balancing is hard at 1k (especially for elite armies), but this will do fine in the vast majority of 1k games. 

Everything else Mark pretty much nailed. 

I guess we can end here. It's just a fact that support heroes and cautious playstyle worked for me better than LCoD at this point level.

Edited by XReN

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8 hours ago, boombyeyeah said:

Evocators are 3 wounds per modell, and they reroll saves against ranged attacks. I like them more

 I dont know why, but i always played them with 2 wounds each. I guess thats the nail in the coffin for fulminators

Edited by IRifter

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4 minutes ago, wanderingrogue said:

Its "Seqs Bomb" not "Gav Bomb" :P

hahahah

Seqs bomb? I thought evocators do the heavy lifting in these lists?

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33 minutes ago, wanderingrogue said:

youd be suprised

Could you elaborate that? Antoher user (Requizen) who seems to be rather knowledgeable said the core is a knight vexillor, gavriel and 15-20 evos. The lists I saw dont even run sequitors

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Elaboration:

 

I came 4th at the Gt final with 30 sequitors (and the things you mention) missing out on 1st buy a run move, and they were by far and away the all stars at the tournament. To the point im going to drop some evocators for yet more sequitors.

 

As for lists that youve seen not run sequitors i am honestly a bit confused as that seems to be the default battleline of choice now in almost every storm cast army i see (a few exceptions)

Edited by wanderingrogue
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11 minutes ago, IRifter said:

Could you elaborate that? Antoher user (Requizen) who seems to be rather knowledgeable said the core is a knight vexillor, gavriel and 15-20 evos. The lists I saw dont even run sequitors

Sequitors with greatmaces rerolling failed hits will kill a lot of things, each of them (not counting the Prime, the additional attacks on 6s and the normal maces) should deal 1,53 damages (against a 4+ save).

20 sequitors should have 9 greatmaces (the Prime should have one too), and if those 9 models get into combat range they will make 19 attacks, a to hit of 3+ with rerollable failed hits will average around 16,68 hitting attacks that would wound on 3+, making 11,01 wounding attacks with a rend of -1 and against a save of 4+ the unsaved attacks would be 7,27, those attacks deals 2 damage each making a total of 14,53 wounds. A lot of things would die by just this attacks, but then you have the other Sequitors (the ones armed with a mace and a shield, or even better with a sword) and Gavriel.

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Mine took out 10 plaguebearers, 40(!) plaguemonks and the glottkin(!!) in one big protracted combat. They were buffed to a 2+ rerollable save mind you, and still got reduced to 5 guys, but even so!

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@Tohshi Ydithe
This is a simple list, it has the core of a Gavbomb but still keeps a good shooting phase to have more flexibility.

All you need to convert is:

A spare Sequitor-Prime should become Gavriel;

A spare Evocator-Prime should become a Lord-Ordinator;

694394140_CheapSCE.png.e5b268bade5713011da12263b721e23b.png

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Artefact: God-forged Blade
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Lighntning Blast
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces

Units
6 x Castigators (160)
3 x Castigators (80)
5 x Evocators (200)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124

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