AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Charleston]

Just now, CommissarRotke said:

is this a general Liberator issue, or because they would on 4s not 3s?

Well, they are simply said an ok battleline. They are tanky with a 4+ save, 2 wounds and rerollable ones, have 4+/3+ with hammers and 3+/4+ with swords, which even gets better against anything with more than 5 Wounds (3+/3+ hammer and 2+/4+ swords). They can also take a a bigger weapon for a bit more punch.

This is all solid, but as soon as they get into contact with some enemy who have rend or multiwounds-damage, they can´t really hold as "tanks" for too long. Also they are vunerable to MW´s. On the other hand they lack the punch to really use them on offensive manners. Also they are slow. Therefore they can´t really do much work in your army most of the times. Sequitors have more punch, can be tankier with better rerolls and can wield more big weapons (1 in 3 instead of 1 in 5 + Champ)

[Lucur]

3s and 4s (or vice versa with hammers) and two attacks on a large base. You will never get many of them to attack without great charge rolls. Ut's the same thing with Sequitors, they only get either harder or more attacks per model.

[CommissarRotke]

I already have 10 sequitors from Soul Wars, but I'd like some Liberators to be able to sub in if I need more points for other units. With these point changes Soul Wars feels much worse for the wear now...

[Lord Ein]

2 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

I already have 10 sequitors from Soul Wars, but I'd like some Liberators to be able to sub in if I need more points for other units. With these point changes Soul Wars feels much worse for the wear now...

I’ve used sequitors and a judicator unit last year, but now at 130 pts I’m going back to my liberators unless I’m going 20 seq unit

[HammerOfSigmar]

With sequitor rising to 130, sequitor becomes a upgraded version(no longer a substitution for liberators) from my opinion, if you just want a unit to sit on the objective, then liberator is enough already, it can hold off when the attacker is not very efficient. If you want a unit to do more, then you can consider switch to sequitor. However, with the points increase,  I prefer using the sequitors in big unit, like at least 10 per unit,  because a unit of 5 isn't much tanker than the liberator, especially if you take 3 greatmace to maximize damage output.

[crkhobbit]

Just played against Slaanesh. Pretty sure it was literally impossible to win that game if my opponent is anything other than a rock.

In round 1, he killed 49 wounds worth of models. I killed two keepers, and 10 wounds to the named keeper.

Then he summoned back two keepers.

14" move, then charge with fight-first damage 5 and 6 weapons with rend, then get back anything that dies. Yeah ok.

Too bad we can't beat anyone on drops.

[XReN]

On 6/21/2019 at 10:24 PM, HammerOfSigmar said:

I think you underestimate the paws, on a successful charge with the LAoCD, nearby the paws gives 10 attack with 2+ 3+ -1 D3 each,   that's some pretty huge for me, you can further stack the empower and CV's command ability on it to make it more deadly.  

That is an insane amount of points you want to dump for CPs though

[JaffaBones]

Gristlegore and Slaanesh did become the easiest matchup for me. Please let's put our heads together and address the elephant in the room. How the f do we beat a player that understands positioning and unbind ranges as good as you and has gazillion bodies and movement to do so? I'm looking at you Tzeentch Changehost and Skaven.

 

The Stormcast pointdrops came different than expected for me.  Stardrake options are out at the moment. Gavbomb only worked against mediocre players or people who didn't have experience with it, don't mind the raise. Every competitive Stardrake list I took to past  tournaments is now over 2000p. I planned on some Paladin heavy army, but the drops here are too few and get shut down by the new meta. The only way I see as of right now, until I come up with something different, is going more Anvilstrike heavy with vanguard support. Many of the new Battleplans have changed in a way, that it will in many cases allow you to flank and occupy an objective ('come in ww/ 6" outside of 7" ') even ones where only Battleline/hero can hold points (people will appreciate 1x5x hunter more).

I now that consensus is that harassment does not work well in the actual meta, and it doesn't with all the hordes that have jolly monsters/inane mw output from spells/endless ... but I'm not very sure if that is still true going into the next months. More objectives are now more far away from eachother, giving opportunity of mistakes, in which  Aquilor+Hunter or Aquilor+Palladors can snatch a turn (sometimes even without a charge) and disappear. The cost to do so is lower than before and synergyzes well with Anvilstrike. Basically, to feel a relief from the point drops, you're forced to go a little more vanguard.

As of right now my Club is even more convinced about how bad Stormcast is, but that makes every podium place on a tournament so much sweeter. I feel like I can outplay everything except skaven/Tzeentch. They just take the whole board and I have no place to teleport/deepstrike/flank. And can't reach fatal priority kills like Lord of change for example. Besides, most of they're important magic has a bigger threatrange than unbind range. So my two auto-unbinds are worth less a little.

Edited June 24, 2019 by JaffaBones

[PrimeElectrid]

3 hours ago, JaffaBones said:

Gristlegore and Slaanesh did become the easiest matchup for me. Please let's put our heads together and address the elephant in the room. How the f do we beat a player that understands positioning and unbind ranges as good as you and has gazillion bodies and movement to do so? I'm looking at you Tzeentch Changehost and Skaven.

 

The Stormcast pointdrops came different than expected for me.  Stardrake options are out at the moment. Gavbomb only worked against mediocre players or people who didn't have experience with it, don't mind the raise. Every competitive Stardrake list I took to past  tournaments is now over 2000p. I planned on some Paladin heavy army, but the drops here are too few and get shut down by the new meta. The only way I see as of right now, until I come up with something different, is going more Anvilstrike heavy with vanguard support. Many of the new Battleplans have changed in a way, that it will in many cases allow you to flank and occupy an objective ('come in ww/ 6" outside of 7" ') even ones where only Battleline/hero can hold points (people will appreciate 1x5x hunter more).

I now that consensus is that harassment does not work well in the actual meta, and it doesn't with all the hordes that have jolly monsters/inane mw output from spells/endless ... but I'm not very sure if that is still true going into the next months. More objectives are now more far away from eachother, giving opportunity of mistakes, in which  Aquilor+Hunter or Aquilor+Palladors can snatch a turn (sometimes even without a charge) and disappear. The cost to do so is lower than before and synergyzes well with Anvilstrike. Basically, to feel a relief from the point drops, you're forced to go a little more vanguard.

As of right now my Club is even more convinced about how bad Stormcast is, but that makes every podium place on a tournament so much sweeter. I feel like I can outplay everything except skaven/Tzeentch. They just take the whole board and I have no place to teleport/deepstrike/flank. And can't reach fatal priority kills like Lord of change for example. Besides, most of they're important magic has a bigger threatrange than unbind range. So my two auto-unbinds are worth less a little.

Haven’t got my copy yet - what battleplan changes encourage mobility?

NB I had a feeling that Palladors, Prosecutors and Hunters might be the quiet winners of GHB19. I’m even looking at Castigators again for their ability to drop out of the sky with 6 shots  followed up by 12 attacks to steal objectives.

[Malakithe]

All those factions mentioned, except Tzeentch, will get hit within a couple weeks. GW already said their points adjustments are coming in july. 

Predictions are gristlegore gets stomped down. Skaven bs get reigned in via increase to Verminlords and guns. The terrain rules already mess with them. No idea about slaanesh. Fyreslayers will definitely get increases for HB. Gloomspite will most likely have reductions for squig stuff but increases for all wizards. 

Everyone is still adjusting to the points changes.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Malakithe

[PJetski]

I always hear Stormcast are a "bad" faction but after I win all my opponents tell me they are overpowered and will be nerfed badly

[luthhero]

So haven't responded much here but I thought I would share some experiences I had this weekend with the new points changes. 

I know there was some random talk of SCE endless spells and I figured why not?  So a little background on me. I have 2 armies one Legion of Azghor and the other SCE. I only really wanted the new stuff from SCE so I only have Sacrosanct and Celestant prime (which is one of my fav models). For my test I just wanted to play grand conclave and endless spells so the list was 

LAoT

2x Incantor

Exorcist

Ordinator

3x 5 Sequitors 

3x Ballistas

Purple Sun

Comet

Gemids

Quicksilver Swords

Pendulum

Grand Conclave Battalion

 

I took Celestial Warbringers to buff up my casting as I wanted to really hit the endless spells plus I took staff of power on the Lord Arcanum. My opponent was playing Gutbusters but that's not the point for my experiment. Spoiler alert I lost but more from positioning and such as this was the first time putting SCE on the table as I've been in chaos dwarf mode the past couple years. 

So some thoughts:

- Purple Sun is pretty good at 50

- Celestial Warbringers was better than expected and with the fast meta the redeploy was pretty strong. 

- Casting Endless Spells was extremely fun and felt really powerful. 

- only 3 5 man battleline could be better.

- While 3 ballistas was good I understand why people play then with longstrikes in the Anvil Strike list. 

In the end I almost wanted just more Sequitors to hold the line while I blast off spells. I get other factions do this better but it was something cool to see the LAoT have that +3 to cast for a turn. He could probably go on foot so that heck you could out him in a vortex and have cogs up to cast 4 times at +3 for your own mini version of Nagash but it would take a turn of setup.  Anyways. If anyone else tries out the endless spell SCE it would be cool to hear your experiences.  I hope to post more often as I dive deep into SCE. 

[frostfire]

Nice reports! It seems the Grand Convocation is going to have its days eventually.

[CommissarRotke]

@luthhero you could drop the Tauralon and probably Ordinator for more points to beef up the Sequitor line

[luthhero]

Agreed. 320 is a lot and it was cool to combo the ordinator and LAoT for the Ballistas but felt like I could use the pts. I want to try the LAoF so I can put him on a disk or balewind. 

[jhamslam]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

I always hear Stormcast are a "bad" faction but after I win all my opponents tell me they are overpowered and will be nerfed badly

GOAT

[jhamslam]

13 hours ago, crkhobbit said:

Just played against Slaanesh. Pretty sure it was literally impossible to win that game if my opponent is anything other than a rock.

In round 1, he killed 49 wounds worth of models. I killed two keepers, and 10 wounds to the named keeper.

Then he summoned back two keepers.

14" move, then charge with fight-first damage 5 and 6 weapons with rend, then get back anything that dies. Yeah ok.

Too bad we can't beat anyone on drops.

what list did you play against slaanesh, yeah that daemon resummoning ****** is annoying af

[frostfire]

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers

Leaders
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
Lord-Arcanum (160)
- General
Celestant-Prime (340)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
20 x Sequitors (440)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Battalions
Grand Convocation (130)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
 

It's the CW list I am building. Maybe seems a little bit overloaded with Endless Spells, but it's just several of them to choose from.

I decide to put the staff of focus on the Incantor, planning to get her on the vortex, use the staff and CA. That's 2 mws to each enemy units within 24''. Maybe I will bring the spell portal to make her a super nuclear bomb, but the portal seems a bit expansive now.

It's a list filled with AOE from spells and Celestant-Prime. Maybe you can fit in a Heraldor who bring more mws since there will be more terrains according to the new rules.

I'm about to test it this weekend. Must be interesting to play a heavy magic list.

[luthhero]

I like this a bunch.  I almost wish cogs where in here as well just to get a ton of spells off.  But I like that you put the prime in to drop later on an objective and then maybe charge or just go ham on someone.  That 2 MWS seems hilarious.  

[Malakithe]

The issue with going spell heavy is all your dmg needs to come from those endless spells. Then you need to pray they arent reveresed on to you. Your trying to pull a LoN or Tzeentch but without the actual firepower or bodies

Edited June 24, 2019 by Malakithe

[luthhero]

 

25 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

The issue with going spell heavy is all your dmg needs to come from those endless spells. Then you need to pray they arent reveresed on to you. Your trying to pull a LoN or Tzeentch but without the actual firepower or bodies

Maybe I'm not sure?  I'm in the make it fun and maybe competitive bracket. It would look cool on the table to have all these swirling endless spells everywhere.  I can't speak from experience of playing with or against either of those factions. A friend of mine is going heavy in LoN so I'll have more data to report soon but from a fun factor this feels cool. 

1 hour ago, frostfire said:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers

Leaders
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
Knight-Incantor (140)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
Lord-Arcanum (160)
- General
Celestant-Prime (340)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
20 x Sequitors (440)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields

Battalions
Grand Convocation (130)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)
Prismatic Palisade (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
 

It's the CW list I am building. Maybe seems a little bit overloaded with Endless Spells, but it's just several of them to choose from.

I decide to put the staff of focus on the Incantor, planning to get her on the vortex, use the staff and CA. That's 2 mws to each enemy units within 24''. Maybe I will bring the spell portal to make her a super nuclear bomb, but the portal seems a bit expansive now.

It's a list filled with AOE from spells and Celestant-Prime. Maybe you can fit in a Heraldor who bring more mws since there will be more terrains according to the new rules.

I'm about to test it this weekend. Must be interesting to play a heavy magic list.

One thing I would like is trying with the Prime and another scary unit. I don't know what that is yet maybe going down to mins on the battle line and adding in evocators or something else. For me I'm limited to Sacrosanct and the prime (though randomly I have the vanguard guys to do soulstrike brotherhood). So I'm interested to hear your results. The pallisade should be fun since it can help protect your army some. 

[JaffaBones]

7 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Haven’t got my copy yet - what battleplan changes encourage mobility?

NB I had a feeling that Palladors, Prosecutors and Hunters might be the quiet winners of GHB19. I’m even looking at Castigators again for their ability to drop out of the sky with 6 shots  followed up by 12 attacks to steal objectives.

Few got stuck...

• Total Commitment has all 4 points 6" from edge now.
• Better Part of Valour has now 4/6 points in 6" and Scorched Earth swaped territories 90°, meaning now 8 objectives and deeper when you draw closest points which favors deepstriking and redeploying of sorts.
• Objectives from Shifting Objectives got stretched out. 
• Battle for the Pass deploy zone got change as such, that  some faction barely will reach the two middle objectives or can't get tons of models in first turn.

Oh and please explain the castigator shooting 18 times

Edited June 24, 2019 by JaffaBones

[CommissarRotke]

15 hours ago, crkhobbit said:

Just played against Slaanesh. Pretty sure it was literally impossible to win that game if my opponent is anything other than a rock.

In round 1, he killed 49 wounds worth of models. I killed two keepers, and 10 wounds to the named keeper.

Then he summoned back two keepers.

14" move, then charge with fight-first damage 5 and 6 weapons with rend, then get back anything that dies. Yeah ok.

Too bad we can't beat anyone on drops.

what were the lists played in this game? I don't know enough about other factions yet, but this seems... inane to summon 2 keepers of secrets back.

[CommissarRotke]

13 minutes ago, JaffaBones said:

Oh and please explain the castigator shooting 18 times

Castigators shoot once on 3+/3+ and have 2 melee at 4+/4+, 6 18" shots plus 12 melee attacks for 160pts, with the ability to give them -2 Rend and extra inherent damage vs Daemons or Nighthaunt.

which is why I personally like them more than Judicators, but they aren't battleline... I think I'm still going to try them in some lists, but for 2k I need one more battleline besides 2x seq. (though I do think the damage should extend to any undead and not just NH)

Edited June 24, 2019 by CommissarRotke
additions

[crkhobbit]

2 hours ago, jhamslam said:

what list did you play against slaanesh, yeah that daemon resummoning ****** is annoying af

Incator x2
Arcanum on foot
Castellant (would have been heraldor, but our realm feature was no running)
Liberators
Seq x10, x2
Evocators x10
Ballistae x3, Ordinator