AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[HammerOfSigmar]

Sorry, misunderstand your words.

Edited February 21, 2019 by HammerOfSigmar

[Nos]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

Astral Hammers just deals d3 Mortals after the attacks, so if you rolled multiple 6s, those hits would deal 2 damage if they wound and then you would also deal d3 MWs at the end. 

If you're talking about the Grandhammer, if you roll a 6 then it does MWs and the sequence ends, so he gets no bonus out of the Command Trait.

Yeah the double hammers. Thanks! I’ve a friendly Nighthaunt game coming up and I’m thinking about going CV. NH’s access to MW’s and ability to shake off attacks favours a less defensive, more attack multiplying sort of play I’m thinking. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Nos

[PJetski]

I have never thought about a situation where a Celestial Vindicators Ordinator would be in melee, and had a command point to spend, and there were no better uses for that command point, and then you roll 2+ 6s to hit 😂

[Nos]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

I have never thought about a situation where a Celestial Vindicators Ordinator would be in melee, and had a command point to spend, and there were no better uses for that command point, and then you roll 2+ 6s to hit 😂

It’s a Command trait not an ability so no command points needed. And I deepstrike Ordinator and a Ballista in pretty frequently to clear out objectives or heroes who are camping, if tactically appropriate. The 9” for Scions means you can charge in with LO in most instances without sacrificing his buff for the Ballista.

I doubt I’ll make him general in those instances but was just thinking about the ramifications of 8 attacks re-rolling 1’s on which rolling 6’s had various applications. Glad you got a laugh out of it though. Easily amused I guess. 

[Black Blade]

I'm trying to fill the last elite spot in a list and I'm having trouble deciding which to go with. 

In a vacuum: do you take a single unit of Dracolines or Fulminators. 

In general which do you rate more highly if you want to take a "faster than infantry unit that fights well on the charge?"

Edited February 22, 2019 by Black Blade

[PJetski]

36 minutes ago, Black Blade said:

I'm trying to fill the last elite spot in a list and I'm having trouble deciding which to go with. 

In a vacuum: do you take a single unit of Dracolines or Fulminators. 

In general which do you rate more highly if you want to take a "faster than infantry unit that fights well on the charge?

Can't judge them in a vacuum. What's the rest of your list?

[Synidus]

7 hours ago, Nos said:

It’s a Command trait not an ability so no command points needed. And I deepstrike Ordinator and a Ballista in pretty frequently to clear out objectives or heroes who are camping, if tactically appropriate. The 9” for Scions means you can charge in with LO in most instances without sacrificing his buff for the Ballista.

I doubt I’ll make him general in those instances but was just thinking about the ramifications of 8 attacks re-rolling 1’s on which rolling 6’s had various applications. Glad you got a laugh out of it though. Easily amused I guess. 

It's a difficult thing to do i think, because the ballistas need to be wholly within.

[Nos]

41 minutes ago, Synidus said:

It's a difficult thing to do i think, because the ballistas need to be wholly within.

Shooting Phase occurs before charge phase, so not really.

Scion in

Shooting Phase

Charge Phase

Assuming LO makes charge you then have 3” move with Ballista which will usually cover wholly within, then shooting phase again. If he didn’t make it last time he only moves 5” before attempting to charge on the second turn so again is comfortably wholly within anyway.

 

[Synidus]

33 minutes ago, Nos said:

Shooting Phase occurs before charge phase, so not really.

Scion in

Shooting Phase

Charge Phase

Assuming LO makes charge you then have 3” move with Ballista which will usually cover wholly within, then shooting phase again. If he didn’t make it last time he only moves 5” before attempting to charge on the second turn so again is comfortably wholly within anyway.

 

Actually you're right. That was a brain ****** moment.

That could be quite interesting actually. So he can support your entire frontline with his command ability. Nice

[Synidus]

Here's a tweaked list that i made::

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Tempest Lords
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Bonds of Noble Duty 
- Artefact: Patrician's Helm 
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Incantor (140)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
6 x Vanguard-Palladors (400)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
10 x Evocators (400)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128

I know the point about having only one spellcaster to cast Everblaze, but unless i have a stardrake or tauralon (both of which i don't have) there's not much else i can do to increase my casting chances.

The ordinator, ballistas & evos will be deepstriking. While the Aquilor will be roaming and flanking with the palladors.

What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance

[Nos]

39 minutes ago, Synidus said:

Actually you're right. That was a brain ****** moment.

That could be quite interesting actually. So he can support your entire frontline with his command ability. Nice

I mean it’s not something to build a list around or anything, he’s there as a Ballista buff first and foremost so you put him wherever they need to be. But in a lot of instances I’ve found the Ballistae don’t need to be too far away from the main line anyway.

As my guy is the dual hammers guy he gets six attacks which makes him a good candidate for an artefact that has lots of hit multipliers so I’ve experimented with it now and again. As I’ve said elsewhere a LO with Sword of Judgement and Ballistae make a really good monster or hero hunter if that’s an important target consideration in whatever game you’re playing. 

[Temp]

Morning all,

just a quick one i am interested in starting a SC list but i am swaying towards a heavy shooting list, from what i have read so far the ballista is auto take. would Judicators be the way to go  or does it make more sense to to go towards the vanguard chamber? 

[PrimeElectrid]

2 hours ago, Temp said:

Morning all,

just a quick one i am interested in starting a SC list but i am swaying towards a heavy shooting list, from what i have read so far the ballista is auto take. would Judicators be the way to go  or does it make more sense to to go towards the vanguard chamber? 

I would like to know this also. The list doing well at the moment is something like:

Lord arcanum

Heraldor or vexillor

Castellant

Ordinator

10-20 Sequitors 

5 Sequitors 

5 Sequitors 

10 Evocators / 6 Dracolines

3 Ballista

How important are the 5 Sequitors? Can they be substituted for 2x 5 Judicators for more shooting power or does that leave the list too light on shooting with only 2 combat units (big Sequitors and Evocators).

[Marzillius]

I played 3 Ballistas and an Ordinator in a tournament last weekend. They were a continual disappointment. I deep striked them along with the Ordinator within 18" of a priority target and usually took it out or heavily damaged it (they do hit really hard). But then they usually get charged by some chaff and have to shoot at them for the following 2-3 turns. Or they just get killed if they are outside of cover. Then they are soooooo slow and clunky. Only 3" move and each unit counts as only one model, so once they're deployed they aren't going anywhere, and they can't hold objectives very well. I found them to be a complete liability not worth 440 points. Use maybe one or two Ballistas as fire-support, but don't use an entire Ordinator battery. Not worth it.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Marzillius

[PJetski]

You need to screen your ballistae with chaff units like Liberators

[HammerOfSigmar]

4 minutes ago, Marzillius said:

I played 3 Ballistas and an Ordinator in a tournament last weekend. They were a continual disappointment. I deep striked them along with the Ordinator within 18" of a priority target and usually took it out or heavily damaged it (they do hit really hard). But then they usually get charged by some chaff and have to shoot at them for the following 2-3 turns. Or they just get killed if they are outside of cover. Then they are soooooo slow and clunky. Only 3" move and each unit counts as only one model, so once they're deployed they aren't going anywhere, and they can't hold objectives very well. I found them to be a complete liability not worth 440 points. Use maybe one or two Ballistas as fire-support, but don't use an entire Ordinator battery. Not worth it.

If you put 3 ballista and LO, didn't you eliminated anything in the turn you DS them? Besides, why you want to move them...Once you DS them into a good position, it has a range that can cover half of the table.

Edited February 22, 2019 by HammerOfSigmar

[Marzillius]

13 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You need to screen your ballistae with chaff units like Liberators

Sure, but they you're sinking even more points into a unit cluster that will lose you the mission. 5 Liberators are not enough screen. 10 might be, but then you have 640 points there. 

13 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

If you put 3 ballista and LO, didn't you eliminated anything in the turn you DS them? Besides, why you want to move them...Once you DS them into a good position, it has a range that can cover half of the table.

Sure, game 1 I killed a Lord-Castellant and a bunch of Evocators and a lot of wounds off a Stardrake. Game 2 was Total Commitment so RIP, but they killed like 20 Tzaangors over the course of the game. Game 3 they killed Crypt Flayers that just came back all the time, so nothing happened basically. Game 4 they killed 60 Freeguild troops. Game 5 they took 10 wounds off Nagash and then spent the rest of the game in combat with 30 Grimghast Reapers. Also, firing one shot with them is bad for the points you pay. The Ordinator is only really useful if you're inside 18" of something. Firing 1 shot with each Ballista is not worth 440 points. Having one or two Ballistas firing away a shot across the table is alright, but not the entire Ordinator supported battery.

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, Marzillius said:

Sure, but they you're sinking even more points into a unit cluster that will lose you the mission. 5 Liberators are not enough screen. 10 might be, but then you have 640 points there. 

Sure, game 1 I killed a Lord-Castellant and a bunch of Evocators and a lot of wounds off a Stardrake. Game 2 was Total Commitment so RIP, but they killed like 20 Tzaangors over the course of the game. Game 3 they killed Crypt Flayers that just came back all the time, so nothing happened basically. Game 4 they killed 60 Freeguild troops. Game 5 they took 10 wounds off Nagash and then spent the rest of the game in combat with 30 Grimghast Reapers. Also, firing one shot with them is bad for the points you pay. The Ordinator is only really useful if you're inside 18" of something. Firing 1 shot with each Ballista is not worth 440 points. Having one or two Ballistas firing away a shot across the table is alright, but not the entire Ordinator supported battery.

No offense meant, but you very well may have just been positioning them badly. Setting up exactly 18" away and just plopping down feels strong, until you get countercharged as you said. 

My experience with Ballistas has been something like this:

• Drop on a flank, where only one unit will be in counter-charge distance. You'll probably kill or cripple it, so that's no big deal.
• Additionally, sometimes dropping in closer is a better choice if you can get close to something important. A powerful Hero behind models? Drop 9" away from the unit and blast the Hero off. Sure you might get countercharged, but without support, who cares? Damage has been done.
• Hold off until Turn 2 or Turn 3. Yes, you miss out on shots, but by that point they'll have moved out and will have more spread out targets to choose from. If they don't move out because they're afraid of the drop... good, you've got board control. 
• Additionally, if you wait, you can drop behind things. You don't need to put Libs or Sequitors up in the sky to drop with them, you can move up the board, and drop behind your shieldwall to shoot the things that they're in combat with/will be in combat with. 
• 9" is a pretty big bubble, so you can easily spread them out max away from the Ordinator. Your opponent will be hard pressed to engage all 3 at the same time, without spreading units too thin to do real damage. If you pop all three of them adjacent, they can all get tied up by one unit of Liberators!

Honestly from your recounting it sounds like they did enough damage to be worthwhile, and with a bit of practice you'll get even more mileage out of them. I'd say use them a few more times and see if you still hate them.

[Nizrah]

Looking for ideas for 500 pts list for Doubles Tournament. 2x 500. My pair will be probably lots of plugue monks.
Our current idea is:

Anvils

Lord Veritant
Liberators - 5
Raptors with Hurricanes - 6

[Requizen]

1 minute ago, Nizrah said:

Looking for ideas for 500 pts list for Doubles Tournament. 2x 500. My pair will be probably lots of plugue monks.
Our current idea is:

Anvils

Lord Veritant
Liberators - 5
Raptors with Hurricanes - 6

That's nice and amusing. As long as he has enough rats to surround you, you'll lose a good number of friends.

Assuming it's 1 Hero 1 Battleline required, you could try:

Lord Arcanum on Tauralon - Gryph Feather Charm, Azyrite Halo, Steel Pinions, Staunch

5x Judicators

The Arcanum is about as impossible to kill as anything in 500 points (excepting an Etheral VLoZD + 10 Zombies), and you can be the anvil to your buddy's Plague Monks.

Alternatively, something like:

Lord Arcanum on Gryph Charger - Lightning Blast, Staunch, Staff of Focus

Judicators

Comet

Probably not as brutal as the Anvils one, but more flexible and some melee punch. The Comet is honestly gamebreaking at low point values, where pegging two foot Heroes with it could end the game outright.

[LordCelestant Imperius 1st]

Hi there. I have never tried such low points game lists. 

Is it really fun. The lowest i have done is 1000 pts, but i think it is always lacking something ... 

 

I played some mordheim but it is not the same gaming system

Edited February 22, 2019 by LordCelestant Imperius 1st

[Nos]

I think with Ballistae you have to ask yourself what they’re there for.

Obviously they have the capacity to do enormous damage to pretty much anything but they also have the potential to do nothing. The more you invest in them the more you’re backing yourself into a corner in respect to how much they *need* to perform, and that’s an inherent risk in the way that 400 points spent on 10 Evocators isn’t. Even 240 points for a LO and one Ballistae is a ten man Sequitor squad you could have bought instead.

They will nearly always have an application but you really need to think about what that is.

I like to use them to hunt heroes and monsters because the multiple damage multiple rend shots from a distance is genuinely an excellent antidote to most of their strengths, whereas you would lose more expensive combatants up close in a fight with them or be unable to get to them at all without a 9” charge.

They obviously can be good at thinning the ranks of hordes etc as well but it tends to be a less notable contribution in my experience. The amount of damage you’re requiring in those instances to make a difference is statistically unlikely to happen.

Whereas 240 points to severely maim or kill a monster pays for itself and is pretty reliable. You’re then either free to continue to pepper stuff or alternatively it gets charged, it dies, but you’ve already done what you wanted with it and tied up another unit in the process so win-win.

Ive had a few games where the Ballista essentially did nothing but people were so bothered by its potential that they wasted an important unit or spells trying to “shut it down” when it hadn’t even started up. 

Also you can literally drop them pretty much anywhere due to their range, they don’t have to outflank. You don’t need to invest in screening them if you just stick them behind your advancing battle line on turn 2 or whatever.

They’re also pretty good bait against certain opponents. Last game I deliberately set up the LO/Ballistae team in a vulnerable looking space which encouraged the Black Coach to be set up opposite it. Then in my turn I just dropped a 5 man Lib squad in front of it to take the charge and shot at other stuff. Tied the coach up for two turns and it had nothing to show for it other than a few dead Liberators,  while Ballista has annihalated a big unit of Spirit Hosts.

Edited February 22, 2019 by Nos

[Mikelomba]

Hello all.

Ive started this amazing army, and after reading quite a good time on this forum, i think i have reach a list that mix both: my personal favortite miniatures on aesthetics and the combos that people use to win.

so the list goes something like this.

-1 lord arcanum on dracoline (240)

-1 castellant (100)

-1 ordinator (140)

-1 heraldor(100)

-1 incantor(140)

-5x sequitors(120)

-5x sequitors(120)

-5x sequitors(120)

-2x ballista (200)

-6x evocators on dracolines (600)

-comet (100)

total:1980/2000

My worries for the list is that 3x 5 units sequitors are only for objectives,but maybe i need 1 big of 10. And also i cut 1 ballista for the comet, maybe using only 2 i dont need the LO and i can put more people on 1 unit, but i think the comet is just too good and the ballistas are very luck-dependant. 

Thanks for reading me and sorry for my english.

[That Guy]

Redacted

Edited March 13, 2019 by That Guy

[PrimeElectrid]

Can anyone on the Stormcast WhatsApp group send me an invite?