AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Black Blade]

5 hours ago, Kelsicle said:

Hey guys,

 

I’m looking for some opinions on a Stormcast army I'm building. This is my first army, basing it from the Soul Wars set and the Thunderstrike Brotherhood box:

 

Leaders:

 

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph Charger (240pts)

 

Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (220pts)

 

Lord-Ordinator (140)

 

Lord-Relictor (100pts)

 

Knight-Incantor (140pts)

 

 

Battlelines:

 

Sequitors x 5 (120pts)

 

Sequitors x 5 (120pts)

 

Liberators x 10 (200pts)

 

 

Artillery:

 

Celestar Ballista (100pts)

 

 

Other Units:

 

Castigators x 3 (80pts)

 

Castigators x 3 (80pts)

 

Evocators x 5 (200pts)

 

Retributors x 5 (220pts)

 

Prosecutors x 3 (100pts)

 

TOTAL: 2060pts

 

So I'm 60 pts over and can't decide if I should drop one unit of Castigators, the Prosecutors or the Lord-Relictors.

 

Also as I said this is my first army so I’d also appreciate any tips on choosing a stormhost, and assigning relics etc. as well as any tips on using units such as the prosecutors?

 

Thanks in advance.

This is an easy one. Drop the Castigators. Also drop the Ordinator. He is a points sink that wont earn his cost. Also you have your battlelines reversed. You want 10 Sequitors in one unit and split the libs into 2 five man teams. Now you have a 160 point deficit.  What can you fill that with?

[Kelsicle]

1 hour ago, Black Blade said:

This is an easy one. Drop the Castigators. Also drop the Ordinator. He is a points sink that wont earn his cost. Also you have your battlelines reversed. You want 10 Sequitors in one unit and split the libs into 2 five man teams. Now you have a 160 point deficit.  What can you fill that with?

Thanks for the reply, do you mind expanding on the logic behind the 10 man sequitor squad? Are there bonuses with squad size or is it just a bigger stick kinda deal? 

These are about all the models I own so in terms of filling that 160pts I’d either be going shopping or looking for a battalion. If I were looking for another model/unit what would you suggest? I could pick up a second Knight incantor for some more hero phase shenanigans or another HQ for buffs maybe a Gav? 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Kelsicle

[XReN]

1 hour ago, Kelsicle said:

These are about all the models I own so in terms of filling that 160pts I’d either be going shopping or looking for a battalion. If I were looking for another model/unit what would you suggest? I could pick up a second Knight incantor for some more hero phase shenanigans or another HQ for buffs maybe a Gav? 

You can spend those points for Gavriel/Castellant/heraldor/another ballista and CP, or some Judicators, or Incantor and Soulsnare Shackles (but buying wholle box of spells does not worth it) And if you drop both units of castigators you can take some dracoths

 

But for start if you have those models ready you can live with only droping castigators

[stato]

3 hours ago, Kelsicle said:

Thanks for the reply, do you mind expanding on the logic behind the 10 man sequitor squad? Are there bonuses with squad size or is it just a bigger stick kinda deal? 

These are about all the models I own so in terms of filling that 160pts I’d either be going shopping or looking for a battalion. If I were looking for another model/unit what would you suggest? I could pick up a second Knight incantor for some more hero phase shenanigans or another HQ for buffs maybe a Gav? 

Have you got any spells? either Malign sorcery or stormcast ones.  They are good fun and with 2 Wizards you could probably get some good use out of them, dropping the Ordinator for a couple of cheap spells would be my change to the list.  If you know which you might want you can pick them up individually on ebay or similar, cheaper than the full box set if you dont need all of them or the Malign Sorcery book.

Edited February 5, 2019 by stato

[Turragor]

10 hours ago, Nos said:

If you want MW against Hordes give Stardrake Smouldering Helm which inflicts MW on a +6, so buffed with Castellant and Staunch Defender that’s a +4. Give him shield and any re-rolled ones which are subsequently saved also do a MW. After a certain point it means a horde basically kills itself when it attacks you.

Running the list as is you have very little MW output or damage in general to be honest. 2 Comets (not guranteed) and a Stardrake and Prime missile attack are attritional damage instances but at 2000 points in the current meta they’re unlikely to do anything decisive. Remove the Stardrake from the equation and it’s quite a flimsy army for Stormcast to be honest, your battleline aren’t going to last against any considered attack and even if it dies it will be quickly outnumbered from an objectives perspective, and the Prime for all his damage output is easily killed as well.

Rule of cool as always, if you like it or fancy playing it then that’s always the most important thing! But if you’re after advice on making an army that can be competitive then I think the only strength this has is the mind games aspect. Tie up the Stardrake with some chaff and the rest is easily dispatched. 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback! It is appreciated. Yes this version might lack the damage of the former version (no comet, no evocators, 4 dracothian guard, no judicators) but that version did table armies that it had no business tabling. I'm trying to figure out what the core of the list is (that makes it effective + fun for me) and improve.

For example, maybe the key was the stardrake and dracoths? Or maybe it's the stardrake, prime and heraldor?

However it is tough to analyse it because it's a bit unusual

Edited February 5, 2019 by Turragor

[Samurai_Eduh]

I really like the idea of a big unit of EvoKittys running around causing havoc. As such, I was Thinking if going with the following:

STORMHOST: Celestial Vindicators

- Lord Arcanum on Dracoline (Savage Blade, General)

- Lord Castellant

- Knight Heraldor

- 5 x Liberators

- 5 x Liberators

- 20 x Sequitors

- 6 x Evocators on Dracolines

- Celestar Ballista

- Celestar Ballista

- Celestar Ballista

Total - 1940 pts

 

Thoughts? I’m thinking of filling the last 60 points with Cogs to maybe add more speed to the army. A weakness I see is that there are not many units on the board to play with.

[chord]

What are people doing for the Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline?   Selling the other two dracolines? (I really dislike boxes like this where I'm left with a not max unit)

[Requizen]

Continuing thought experiments on "melee is for suckers" Stormcast.

Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Incantor - General, Deathly Aura, Lightning Blast, Staff of Focus
Relictor - Translocation
Azyros - Soulthief

5x Liberators
5x Judicators - Bows
5x Judicators - Bows

9x Longstrikes
3x Longstrikes
3x Hurricanes
3x Aetherwings
3x Aetherwings
3x Aetherwings

Vanguard Justicar Conclave

Comet

7 drops is pretty good for Stormcast, especially this heavy shooting. Could shift away from Anvils and split the Longstrikes to 2x6, but I like the capacity to absolutely ruin melee armies. Extremely light on bodies but should pump out enough ranged damage to nullify any threats.

Alternatively:

Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Venator - Soulthief
Incantor - General, Deathly Aura, Lightning Blast
Incantor - Stormcaller
Ordinator

5x Judicators - Bows
5x Judicators - Bows
5x Liberators 

9x Longstrikes
3x Aetherwings
3x Aetherwings

Ballista
Ballista
Ballista
Ballista

An absolutely barbaric amount of shooting, potentially enough to end friendships. Could instead drop a Ballista to get a Comet, but that's purely preferential. Again, if not Anvils, maybe break up the Longstrikes, but overall the amount of ouchies this puts out is pretty high. 

Both almost immediately lose to Sylvaneth who know how to block LOS well, or Idoneth who just ram 12+ Eels into your guts and remove your whole army. Both basically turbomurder any melee-only army that walks across the table. I feel like they could be great anti-Nagash spoiler armies, since Rend-2 shooting is the best way to deal with the big lug, but if you don't instagib him, the jig is pretty much up.

I kinda want to take one of these to a 2-day that's happening this weekend but I'd have to speed paint a couple things.

[The World Tree]

12 minutes ago, chord said:

What are people doing for the Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline?   Selling the other two dracolines? (I really dislike boxes like this where I'm left with a not max unit)

I did a head swap on the gorgeous Astreia Solbright model. 

[Nos]

17 minutes ago, chord said:

What are people doing for the Lord-Arcanum on Dracoline?   Selling the other two dracolines? (I really dislike boxes like this where I'm left with a not max unit)

Buying Astreia

[chord]

22 minutes ago, Nos said:

Buying Astreia

Just kitbashing or proxying?  (they have different CA's)

[chord]

26 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

I did a head swap on the gorgeous Astreia Solbright model. 

I was considering that.

[Twh30]

27 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Continuing thought experiments on "melee is for suckers" Stormcast.

Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Incantor - General, Deathly Aura, Lightning Blast, Staff of Focus
Relictor - Translocation
Azyros - Soulthief

5x Liberators
5x Judicators - Bows
5x Judicators - Bows

9x Longstrikes
3x Longstrikes
3x Hurricanes
3x Aetherwings
3x Aetherwings
3x Aetherwings

Vanguard Justicar Conclave

Comet

7 drops is pretty good for Stormcast, especially this heavy shooting. Could shift away from Anvils and split the Longstrikes to 2x6, but I like the capacity to absolutely ruin melee armies. Extremely light on bodies but should pump out enough ranged damage to nullify any threats.

Alternatively:

Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Venator - Soulthief
Incantor - General, Deathly Aura, Lightning Blast
Incantor - Stormcaller
Ordinator

5x Judicators - Bows
5x Judicators - Bows
5x Liberators 

9x Longstrikes
3x Aetherwings
3x Aetherwings

Ballista
Ballista
Ballista
Ballista

An absolutely barbaric amount of shooting, potentially enough to end friendships. Could instead drop a Ballista to get a Comet, but that's purely preferential. Again, if not Anvils, maybe break up the Longstrikes, but overall the amount of ouchies this puts out is pretty high. 

Both almost immediately lose to Sylvaneth who know how to block LOS well, or Idoneth who just ram 12+ Eels into your guts and remove your whole army. Both basically turbomurder any melee-only army that walks across the table. I feel like they could be great anti-Nagash spoiler armies, since Rend-2 shooting is the best way to deal with the big lug, but if you don't instagib him, the jig is pretty much up.

I kinda want to take one of these to a 2-day that's happening this weekend but I'd have to speed paint a couple things.

I am trying to come up with a mostly shooting army, I also play sylthaneth but know the trip is to drop down behind them to snipe them off and using an heraldor to hurt them. Been thinking bout list similar like this . Using the evocators to mop up any strays

[Nos]

9 minutes ago, chord said:

Just kitbashing or proxying?  (they have different CA's)

Proxying. It’s literally just a female LA on a Dracoline. There is nothing in how the model is equipped in respect to weapons or equipment or such to cause confusion. In fact the only thing that would “make” her Astreia rather than just any other LA is painting her in Hammers colours. Also she’s basically pointless to take in a non-Hammers army due to her CA affecting only Hammers.

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Nos

[Requizen]

2 minutes ago, chord said:

Just kitbashing or proxying?  (they have different CA's)

Most people don't care if Astreia's model is used as a normal LA, but you could always swap the head and/or staff pretty easily. Nobody has ever called me out for using Vandus as a regular LCoD.

 

4 minutes ago, Twh30 said:

I am trying to come up with a mostly shooting army, I also play sylthaneth but know the trip is to drop down behind them to snipe them off and using an heraldor to hurt them. Been thinking bout list similar like this . Using the evocators to mop up any strays

 

I dunno how effective just 3 Evocats are, but the idea is sound. Honestly if you dropped the Dracolines and one unit of Libs, you could take Evos 10 on foot, which is my personal preference unless you're going all in on Dracolines (6+ with the LAoD)

[Twh30]

Just now, Requizen said:

Most people don't care if Astreia's model is used as a normal LA, but you could always swap the head and/or staff pretty easily. Nobody has ever called me out for using Vandus as a regular LCoD.

 

I dunno how effective just 3 Evocats are, but the idea is sound. Honestly if you dropped the Dracolines and one unit of Libs, you could take Evos 10 on foot, which is my personal preference unless you're going all in on Dracolines (6+ with the LAoD)

That’s cool looking for options on it I’m not stuck on the dracolines . Do you have any other alternative possibly to evos ?  Have thought bout the 9 raptors instead of 6 take dracolines out add mayb 5 sequitots as well?

[Requizen]

2 minutes ago, Twh30 said:

That’s cool looking for options on it I’m not stuck on the dracolines . Do you have any other alternative possibly to evos ?  Have thought bout the 9 raptors instead of 6 take dracolines out add mayb 5 sequitots as well?

6 Raptors isn't nearly as scary as 9, but it's still pretty good. You're not getting as much out of the Command Ability, but it opens up the list a bit if nothing else. 

Instead of Evos altogether, you could add in some chump units. More Aetherwings, any number of Skinks, and yeah some 5 man Sequitor/Liberator units do fine for reaching out to grab objectives or stand in the way.

[Twh30]

4 minutes ago, Requizen said:

6 Raptors isn't nearly as scary as 9, but it's still pretty good. You're not getting as much out of the Command Ability, but it opens up the list a bit if nothing else. 

Instead of Evos altogether, you could add in some chump units. More Aetherwings, any number of Skinks, and yeah some 5 man Sequitor/Liberator units do fine for reaching out to grab objectives or stand in the way.

Yea chump units would be good just to protect raptors 

[PJetski]

The problem with all shooting is that you can be hard countered by certain lists (6+ fulminators, immortal Stardrake, sylvaneth, thunderquake, plaguebringer spam, ballista cores), sometimes you get the Realm of Shadow or the Realm of Fire, and sometimes your table has woods which restrict LOS. The all-in shooting lists are extremely powerful but most events will have 1 or more of these elements that can hinder your ability to go 5-0 so I don't find it a reliable enough choice for tournaments.

For that reason I think adding 10 Evocators to the list as a secondary threat is almost necessary so that you have a backup plan in case you play a game in Ulgu vs Sylvaneth with 6 wood tiles. However, if you know the event won't have the realm of Shadows then I think it's fine to go all-in with 12 Longstrikes.

I don't think 840 for the Dracoline package (6 Cats + Pride Leader) is a worthwhile investment in a list with 9x Longstrike or 20x Judicators - I think you're better spending 400 on 10x Evocators and then picking up some defensive options like Incantors (dispel scroll) and Aetherwings (deny charges). The Dracoline package is great in other kinds of lists, like Celestial Vindicators.

[Requizen]

7 minutes ago, PJetski said:

The problem with all shooting is that you can be hard countered by certain lists (6+ fulminators, immortal Stardrake, sylvaneth, thunderquake, plaguebringer spam, ballista cores), sometimes you get the Realm of Shadow or the Realm of Fire, and sometimes your table has woods which restrict LOS. The all-in shooting lists are extremely powerful but most events will have 1 or more of these elements that can hinder your ability to go 5-0 so I don't find it a reliable enough choice for tournaments.

For that reason I think adding 10 Evocators to the list as a secondary threat is almost necessary so that you have a backup plan in case you play a game in Ulgu vs Sylvaneth with 6 wood tiles. However, if you know the event won't have the realm of Shadows then I think it's fine to go all-in with 12 Longstrikes.

I don't think 840 for the Dracoline package (6 Cats + Pride Leader) is a worthwhile investment in a list with 9x Longstrike or 20x Judicators - I think you're better spending 400 on 10x Evocators and then picking up some defensive options like Incantors (dispel scroll) and Aetherwings (deny charges). The Dracoline package is great in other kinds of lists, like Celestial Vindicators.

Oh yeah, I don't think any of those lists are 5-0 lists, but they're pretty good spoiler lists for some of the big stuff out there. Mass shooting is, as I said, one of the few things to threaten Nagash, and depending on terrain setup and what not, a great way to shut down DoK combo pieces. 

[Turragor]

10 minutes ago, PJetski said:

The problem with all shooting is that you can be hard countered by certain lists (6+ fulminators, immortal Stardrake, sylvaneth, thunderquake, plaguebringer spam, ballista cores), sometimes you get the Realm of Shadow or the Realm of Fire, and sometimes your table has woods which restrict LOS. The all-in shooting lists are extremely powerful but most events will have 1 or more of these elements that can hinder your ability to go 5-0 so I don't find it a reliable enough choice for tournaments.

For that reason I think adding 10 Evocators to the list as a secondary threat is almost necessary so that you have a backup plan in case you play a game in Ulgu vs Sylvaneth with 6 wood tiles. However, if you know the event won't have the realm of Shadows then I think it's fine to go all-in with 12 Longstrikes.

I don't think 840 for the Dracoline package (6 Cats + Pride Leader) is a worthwhile investment in a list with 9x Longstrike or 20x Judicators - I think you're better spending 400 on 10x Evocators and then picking up some defensive options like Incantors (dispel scroll) and Aetherwings (deny charges). The Dracoline package is great in other kinds of lists, like Celestial Vindicators.

What are your thoughts on (and this is kinda what my strange lists are aiming at these days) going pure mortal wound "shooting"? Most of our stuff that does mw shooting is also threatening in other ways.

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, Requizen said:

Oh yeah, I don't think any of those lists are 5-0 lists, but they're pretty good spoiler lists for some of the big stuff out there. Mass shooting is, as I said, one of the few things to threaten Nagash, and depending on terrain setup and what not, a great way to shut down DoK combo pieces. 

That's why I like the Astral Templars lists the most right now. They can reliably kill Nagash, GUOs, Engine of the Gods, etc. with a ballista drop, but then they also have 10-15 Evocators or 4-6 Desolators (usually getting a turn 1 charge!) and points left over for support pieces/spells.

It feels like a fusion of Anvilstrike and Gavriel bombs, with the best of both worlds and very few of their weaknesses.

3 minutes ago, Turragor said:

What are your thoughts on (and this is kinda what my strange lists are aiming at these days) going pure mortal wound "shooting"? Most of our stuff that does mw shooting is also threatening in other ways.

Which units in particular?

Mortal Wounds can be a very useful tool, but I dont think Mortal Wound spam is a great strategy overall right now. While some armies are very weak to MWs (Stormcast, Seraphon, Idoneth, Sylvaneth) there are loads of popular and powerful armies that can shrug or mitigate them (DOK, LON, NH, Khorne, Tzeentch) and you would be better off doing damage through standard attacking.

[Requizen]

9 minutes ago, PJetski said:

That's why I like the Astral Templars lists the most right now. They can reliably kill Nagash, GUOs, Engine of the Gods, etc. with a ballista drop, but then they also have 10-15 Evocators or 4-6 Desolators (usually getting a turn 1 charge!) and points left over for support pieces/spells.

It feels like a fusion of Anvilstrike and Gavriel bombs, with the best of both worlds and very few of their weaknesses.

Hm, very interesting option there. The pregame move is a big deal, and you're right about a lot of Monsters being important right now. The rest is pretty meh, the Artifact and CA being basically pointless, but if you're doing a well-rounded build and won't particularly miss Staunch it's a fair choice.

[HammerOfSigmar]

Well, in non-hammer list, how does we guarantee charges for evocators? Just let it to reach the enemy in round 2?

[PJetski]

7 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Well, in non-hammer list, how does we guarantee charges for evocators? Just let it to reach the enemy in round 2?

Battleplans typically put the frontlines 24" apart, but others shift the frontlines to 18" apart.

Astral Templars gives you a 6" move at the start of the game. With a Heraldor to run & charge and Chronomantic cogs the Evocators can move 6 + 5 + run + charge + 4 (cogs) = 14-19" move and a +2 charge. Don't forget that you can also use a command point to run6 or reroll charges

In my testing so far I have managed to get a turn 1 charge with Evocators in every game that I wanted. Very few people expect that kind of mobility from Evocators (most people will just laugh when you put them on the table and ask if you forgot to bring Gavriel). Even when they do expect it, not many lists want to deploy out of this threat range and give up total board control to a ballista deep strike list.

The only lists I have found that can consistently stay back are shooting focused lists with teleporting abilities, like the Thunderquake. All of these lists seem to be based on big monsters... and that's where the Ballista drop comes in to delete key targets reliably.