AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Mark Williams]

36 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Why not? You can easily squeeze in a LAGC. You dont want Gavriel or Vandus as your general anyway since they cant take a Command trait.

You won't be able to use vandus' command ability. Or will you?

Edited September 13, 2018 by Mark Williams

[yarrickson]

1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

You won't be able to use vandus' command ability. Or will you?

You would still be able to. Vengeful Determination (Vandus' command ability) isn't conditional. 

[ShepHammer]

This is a fantastic thread!  Thanks to everyone sharing their experiences so far.

I am struggling with the 20-man sequitor unit.  I have played two games with it and I have found that getting the entire set of buffs on them all at once was daunting.  It essentially clumped the half of my army together in one spot (940 points).

For reference I was attempting to keep the unit under:

Staunch Defender - 9" wholly within

Soul Energy - 9" wholly within

Warding lantern - 18" wholly within

Empower - 12" wholly within

I have a hunch that the 20-man version of the sequitor unit is probably better served without every single buff on it. I'd like to try thinning down the sequitors to 10-man.  I could go 5-wide with the entire front row using the upgraded weapons, and it would move around a lot better than the maxed unit. I have also struggled to reposition the unit using the heraldor because the evocators, lord-arcanum, and lord-castellan are blocking them in from behind.

Could anyone share their successes with the big unit?  Did you give them every buff you had?  Or did you let their 40 wounds and built-in re-rolls do the work?

[Namelessone81]

3 hours ago, ShepHammer said:

This is a fantastic thread!  Thanks to everyone sharing their experiences so far.

I am struggling with the 20-man sequitor unit.  I have played two games with it and I have found that getting the entire set of buffs on them all at once was daunting.  It essentially clumped the half of my army together in one spot (940 points).

For reference I was attempting to keep the unit under:

Staunch Defender - 9" wholly within

Soul Energy - 9" wholly within

Warding lantern - 18" wholly within

Empower - 12" wholly within

I have a hunch that the 20-man version of the sequitor unit is probably better served without every single buff on it. I'd like to try thinning down the sequitors to 10-man.  I could go 5-wide with the entire front row using the upgraded weapons, and it would move around a lot better than the maxed unit. I have also struggled to reposition the unit using the heraldor because the evocators, lord-arcanum, and lord-castellan are blocking them in from behind.

Could anyone share their successes with the big unit?  Did you give them every buff you had?  Or did you let their 40 wounds and built-in re-rolls do the work?

I am using the lantern and celestial blades on them + their own buff and they are pretty solid. 

The problem is the movement and the placing cause you can easily misplace the greatmaces and then lose their edge in combat  

[schwabbele]

5 hours ago, Namelessone81 said:

The problem is the movement and the placing cause you can easily misplace the greatmaces and then lose their edge in combat  

Hm could you explain that in more detail please? Where else do you put the maces when not in front line? 

[Namelessone81]

1 minute ago, schwabbele said:

Hm could you explain that in more detail please? Where else do you put the maces when not in front line? 

Yes they will be in the front line ofc all 9 of them if you make one your prime but a 20 model unit with 40mm is difficult to maneuver with coherence so you will have to be careful at the start of your deployment how and where you will put them to face .

[Gottkaiser]

Why would you place the greatmaces in the front line? I try to put the normal maces/swords in the front line and the greatmaces right behind them. That way you can make more attaacks and use the 2" reach of the greatmaces

[ledha]

For the people who like the Celestant Prime, don't forget he can be included in any stormhost.

A Celestant Prime attacking in hero phase with the Anvils of Heldenhammer command ability can be a real pain for your opponent if he wasn't able to snipe him after his arrival. And he synergize very well with the command trait of Anvils, resulting in a -3 for the bravery of everyone around both of them.

Hammers of sigmar give him a 6++ (actually very cool with Aventis, who can have TWO 6++, while the tauralon can rock THREE 6++ save) , and knight excelsior give him some regen after beating up a unit.

Edited September 14, 2018 by ledha

[PJetski]

30 minutes ago, Gottkaiser said:

Why would you place the greatmaces in the front line? I try to put the normal maces/swords in the front line and the greatmaces right behind them. That way you can make more attaacks and use the 2" reach of the greatmaces

Sequitor Greatmaces are only 1"

[Freejack02]

41 minutes ago, Gottkaiser said:

Why would you place the greatmaces in the front line? I try to put the normal maces/swords in the front line and the greatmaces right behind them. That way you can make more attaacks and use the 2" reach of the greatmaces

Might be thinking of another unit - Sequitor/Liberator Greatweapons have always been 1" reach. 

 

3 hours ago, schwabbele said:

Hm could you explain that in more detail please? Where else do you put the maces when not in front line? 

I've had the exact same issue when using 20 Sequitors, anything charging a flank or just being right outside pile-in range (which forces the nearest models to pile-in that direction) can seriously mess with your coherence and damage output. The only times I've had 20 be really ineffective is when an opponent stretched them between two fronts and managed to greatly reduce their impact by forcing specific models to pile certain ways. I'd love to see the pile-in rules change to make large units of 40mm bases more manageable, but that won't happen anytime soon!

[amysrevenge]

41 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

've had the exact same issue when using 20 Sequitors, anything charging a flank or just being right outside pile-in range (which forces the nearest models to pile-in that direction) can seriously mess with your coherence and damage output. The only times I've had 20 be really ineffective is when an opponent stretched them between two fronts and managed to greatly reduce their impact by forcing specific models to pile certain ways. I'd love to see the pile-in rules change to make large units of 40mm bases more manageable, but that won't happen anytime soon!

Yes, I experienced this as well.  I was set up properly for the fight I wanted, but then a fight I didn't want (combined with clever casualty removal by my opponent) ended up stretching me out in a direction I didn't want to go, and forced a couple more shields and a couple fewer greatmaces into combat.

They still did very well, in a couple of cases with no extra buffs beyond the one they do to themselves.

[PJetski]

Im glad other people are starting to see the huge flaws with blobs of 20 sequitors

This is why Im not a big fan of Sequitors:

• In groups of 5 they die too quick to be worth their points. Liberators make a better screening unit 
• In groups of 20 they just get flanked and cant pile in.
• In units of 15 you should just pay 40 points and run 20 instead
• Not worth running unless they're battleline, and the only good Arcanums are the LAGC and the LAD (usually isnt worth using outside of Dracoline lists). If you make a Stardrake your general for Staunch Defender you dont run Sequitors.

It feels like units of 10 is the sweet spot. It gives you enough damage and durability without sacrificing mobility or opening yourself to crippling flank maneuvers.

I think 10 Sequitors + 5 Judicators/6 Castigators is a better use of 400 points than 20 Sequitors.

Edited September 14, 2018 by PJetski

[Nos]

The footprint for 20 Sequitors is ludicrous. If your opponent is dumb enough to somehow let a unit that big manouvere itself into a place where it can fully bring itself to bear or not just leave them to flounder in the open space big enough for them while they capture objectives around them then they deserve to get stomped.

A blob like that is just asking to be hit by multiple Endless Spells as well.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Nos

[Black Blade]

I'm about to go against my first Sylvaneth opponent in a few days, so I wrote this list with the hopes of having a competitive and fun battle, how does this list strike you? Anything big I'm just not seeing? Should I switch some artifacts around or what?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Staunch Defender 
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak 
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
- Prayer: Divine Light
Knight-Heraldor (100)

Battleline
15 x Sequitors (360)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 7x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces

Units
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
- 2x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
2 x Fulminators (240)

Battalions
Cleansing Phalanx (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
 

[Bradipo322]

3 hours ago, ledha said:

For the people who like the Celestant Prime, don't forget he can be included in any stormhost.

A Celestant Prime attacking in hero phase with the Anvils of Heldenhammer command ability can be a real pain for your opponent if he wasn't able to snipe him after his arrival. And he synergize very well with the command trait of Anvils, resulting in a -3 for the bravery of everyone around both of them.

Hammers of sigmar give him a 6++ (actually very cool with Aventis, who can have TWO 6++, while the tauralon can rock THREE 6++ save) , and knight excelsior give him some regen after beating up a unit.

Can you give command traits to named characters?

[Freejack02]

31 minutes ago, Black Blade said:

I'm about to go against my first Sylvaneth opponent in a few days, so I wrote this list with the hopes of having a competitive and fun battle, how does this list strike you? Anything big I'm just not seeing? Should I switch some artifacts around or what?

I don't think there's ever a justification to take 15 sequitors in a unit - either cut it down to 10 or bump it up to 20 for a mere 40 points. 15 gets you the worst of both worlds (big footprint + high price). I would probably cut it down to 10 in this case and get points for a Ballista or another hero.

[Freejack02]

1 minute ago, Bradipo322 said:

Can you give command traits to named characters?

The command ability isn't given to the Prime, it is simply used with him as the target. You would need another model to be the general (which is always desired anyway). 

[Black Blade]

6 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

I don't think there's ever a justification to take 15 sequitors in a unit - either cut it down to 10 or bump it up to 20 for a mere 40 points. 15 gets you the worst of both worlds (big footprint + high price). I would probably cut it down to 10 in this case and get points for a Ballista or another hero.

Interesting, I've heard 15 was the sweet spot. I've run 20 and it was just too huge in my opinion. I was going to try 15 to start but I'll give 10 a shot instead. 

[Namelessone81]

I wanna try a magic focused army with Aventis as general and  grand convocation as my battalion and I was wondering if there are any good magic Artefacts to boost my heroes magic .

i am not going to put a stormhost so I can pick from any realm an Artefact and I will use the staff of focus for my comet  

 

[Nos]

11 hours ago, Black Blade said:

Interesting, I've heard 15 was the sweet spot. I've run 20 and it was just too huge in my opinion. I was going to try 15 to start but I'll give 10 a shot instead. 

The 15 issue is down to price. If you take 20 you get a discount, if you take 15 you don't, so with 15 you're losing points that could be adding wounds or doing damage or taking objectives elsewhere basically.

I'm using a unit of 10 at present, and they're very hard to fault. They will kill reliably stuff or they will tie up other stuff, and they can switch on a dime.  They're not quite a shock unit in my opinion as they don't do quite enough damage (unless against Demons and Nighthaunt) but unlike most shock units they can also stand to get charged and there will be about as many of them in the next turn to go again, so they're incredibly versatile. 

Granted if there was another 10 of them they could plough through most things in one go, but again, if your opponent is somehow dumb enough to allow 20 Sequitors to get into contact then that's pretty moot anyway. 

[Black Blade]

Had an interesting game today where I tried out some new units/combos in preparation for the local escalation league. It was my first time coming up against Sylvaneth and I felt his list was pretty solid and fun to play against while also was quite revealing for what my units were effective at. 

Basic rundown of the list

1. Tree Lord Ancient, Spirit of Durthu, Branchwytch,  4 units hunters (2xU bows and 2xU scythes) 3 units of dryads. He was running a battalion but I dont remember the name.

2. LAoGC, L. Castellant, K. Heraldor, 10x Sequitors, 10x LIberators, 5x Liberators, Evocators on foot and on Dracolines and then 4x Fulminators and a Vortex.

Like I said my SC list was about having a few tests, the Vortex is iffy, Liberators cap things just fine but obviously dont push like Sequitors can. The Heraldor was a little unwieldy with his abilities wholly within wording as well as the charge one being a shorter range than the shooting one which confused me during the game. The other heroes were as reliable and effective as ever but where I was really let down was my cavalry. My expensive expensive cavalry... I wanted to push them hard to test their limits and I felt letdown. The fulminators hit the Bow hunters and did 1 damage between the four of them. I rolled poorly but still, the rend on charging giant glaives and giant dragon claws/fangs is underwhelming. He just absorbed everything with his rooted ability which was cool at least. Then you have what I thought were my assassins, the Evo's on Dracolines deepstriking in the back; 3 of those dudes hit durthu for 5 wounds including the mortal throws. In their defense I didnt intend to actually kill him just cripple him and I didnt know he had an artifact giving him a 2+ save. Effectively my cavalry  boxed the north and south of his giant tree guys battalion between some terrain and a board edge. tying them up won me the game while i capped objectives and pushed his dryads around. But again my cavalry was underwhelming for being 780 points. the fulminators never took more than 2 wounds and healed everything else from buffs but Durthu was healed by the witch and swung on my evocators who have a bad save of 4+ for their cost and his sword killed 2 instantly doing 6 damage on 2 successful swings and bringing the 3rd down to 1 wound.

 

TL;DR Evocators on foot are amazing and the ones on Dracolines look even better but are absolutely not worth 300 points. They would be good hitting light weight battleline but then again what wouldnt. The steeds for both types of cav I used were underwhelming and didnt make sense to me, how a thundercat and a lightning dragon hit as softly as they do ill never know but d6 damage on a 6 to wound or d3 on a charge are not worth much if they are only really getting through on horde infantry anyway. I find myself looking for something than can reliably get through tough saves and Im hoping this will be one of the niches filled by ruination chamber.

[Black Blade]

On 9/15/2018 at 2:57 AM, Namelessone81 said:

I wanna try a magic focused army with Aventis as general and  grand convocation as my battalion and I was wondering if there are any good magic Artefacts to boost my heroes magic .

i am not going to put a stormhost so I can pick from any realm an Artefact and I will use the staff of focus for my comet  

 

Hello, you actually need to take a stormhost if you plan on using Aventis command ability and furthermore he cannot take an item anyway. You should run the generic Talaron guy if you want one, give him the +1 to cast and damage staff and take the cogs so he can cast 3 spells a turn if you want that kind of boost.

[schwabbele]

7 hours ago, Black Blade said:

TL;DR Evocators on foot are amazing and the ones on Dracolines look even better but are absolutely not worth 300 points. They would be good hitting light weight battleline but then again what wouldnt. The steeds for both types of cav I used were underwhelming and didnt make sense to me, how a thundercat and a lightning dragon hit as softly as they do ill never know but d6 damage on a 6 to wound or d3 on a charge are not worth much if they are only really getting through on horde infantry anyway. I find myself looking for something than can reliably get through tough saves and Im hoping this will be one of the niches filled by ruination chamber.

Did you forget about the MW missile attack from the fulmis rides ( not that it would be reliable  ) ? I really wanna buy me some (4) of them just to have cavalry at my disposal  but not sure and kinda expensive ?

On Saturday I realized how strong sequitors are. Unit of 15 ( yeah i know ^^ ) , buff from castellant and re-rolling failed saves mode -> it was like throwing paper towels at a concrete wall, Khorne was not amused

[Turragor]

7 hours ago, Black Blade said:

The steeds for both types of cav I used were underwhelming and didnt make sense to me, how a thundercat and a lightning dragon hit as softly as they do ill never know but d6 damage on a 6 to wound or d3 on a charge are not worth much if they are only really getting through on horde infantry anyway.

I mean you met Sylvaneth - one of the only armies possibly more durable than SC (when built to be durable). Durthu needs mws basically.

[Black Blade]

4 hours ago, schwabbele said:

Did you forget about the MW missile attack from the fulmis rides ( not that it would be reliable  ) ? I really wanna buy me some (4) of them just to have cavalry at my disposal  but not sure and kinda expensive ?

On Saturday I realized how strong sequitors are. Unit of 15 ( yeah i know ^^ ) , buff from castellant and re-rolling failed saves mode -> it was like throwing paper towels at a concrete wall, Khorne was not amused

I did not forget but I shot the first turn hitting with just 1 of the 4 shots and that did 2 MW I think. My next turn my unit had failed to break the Hunters or even do any damage at all with their charging glaives so I intended to use my Heraldor so they could retreat and charge. However he was just out of range (a unit of 4 dracoths is a a big footprint to be wholly within 12") and durthu and two scythe hunter units were coming forward so I just flat retreated to have a better position. In either case I had to forfeit my shots that turn. SO. To clarify I was using 4 fulminators in a single unit and that particular game I found them lacking for hitting hard targets; that being said with a Warding lantern and their anti shooting ability they took zero wounds over 3 turns except 2 from mortals that they healed back later. I see no reason to ever take more than 1 unit of 2 dracoths as they currently exist and even then only as fulminators. Tremendous staying power but its a toss up if they will break something or just be a road block.

 

 @Turragor Yeah, I went in with little to no foreknowledge of what that army was capable of. I knew they were solid but I had no idea how sturdy they actually were. So what you're saying is that before throwing both units out the window I should realize that those particular match ups were on the extreme end of what combats would be like should choose them more wisely?