AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Richelieu]

5 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Dais Arcanum: only wizzards that do not have wounds of 6 or more... That means that the Lord Arcanum (w=6 and LAoGC=7) can't get on the disc. Or did I miss something?

The reason @kozokus said to reread the rule is that it is written in such a way that it is utterly meaningless.  It is an "and" conditional, not an "or" conditional, meaning that all three of the stated conditions must be met in order for it to restrict casting.  So the only units that can't cast it are ones that have 6 wounds or more and have two or more models and are not already on a disc.  No storm cast units meet these criteria, therefore all stormcast wizards can cast it.  It's obviously not what is intended, but it is terribly written.

 

[Freejack02]

9 hours ago, Oldshrimpeyes said:

Is this list, and/or the Soul Strike approach actually a legit tactic or more a one trick pony? Genuine question, I have been thinking about going down this route to shake up my local meta but don't want to deep dive on castigators if it's too much of a glass hammer,

I mean it definitely only has one trick - Scions in your Castigators and hopefully annihilate enough priority targets that you can win the game with 1k points of sub-optimal shooters. I think for the list to really work well, you need to go with 2 blocks of 15 or max them at 18 - you really need to get everything you can out of the double-shots. I think it can work well against an elite list, but will likely be poor against hordes (-2 rend is great, but not enough raw damage to dent hordes). Large targets like Nagash, Alarielle, or Maw-Krushas would be a nice matchup. 

[AverageBoss]

Thinking of giving this list a spin:
 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Relictor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: None
4 x Fulminators (480)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103
 

No idea on trait/artifacts/spells/stormhost yet. Thoughts?

 

 

 

[Richelieu]

2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Thinking of giving this list a spin:
 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Relictor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: None
4 x Fulminators (480)
Everblaze Comet (100)
Soulsnare Shackles (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 103
 

No idea on trait/artifacts/spells/stormhost yet. Thoughts?

 

 

 

I am playing very close to that list as we speak.  Playing casually so I'm using tempest Lords to see how it plays on the table.

Edit: won the game against Tzeentch.  He let me go first and I got onto all three objectives turn 1 in places of arcane power.  I narrowly escaped the double turn, which I think would have won the game for my opponent.  Instead, I held all 3 objectives again and he was nerve able to catch up on points in spite of taking board control.

Tempest Lords didn't do anything for me.  Heraldor was an allstar as usual.  I think having two in your list is great.  

Here was the list:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord Celestant on Dracoth (220)

-general

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)

Lord-Castellant (100)

Lord-Relictor (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
2 x Fulminators (240)

3 x Vanguard Raptors w/ longstrikes (180)

1 x Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 1980/ 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400

Edited August 4, 2018 by Richelieu

[chord]

In the app crossbow Judicators have 2 attacks and in the battletome they have 3 .  Do we know which is correct?

[AverageBoss]

If there is no errata, the battletome should always take precedence over the app (which also said Ironguts had 20" reach and goblins needed a 44+ to ht a few weeks ago).

 

 

[Oldshrimpeyes]

5 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

I mean it definitely only has one trick - Scions in your Castigators and hopefully annihilate enough priority targets that you can win the game with 1k points of sub-optimal shooters. I think for the list to really work well, you need to go with 2 blocks of 15 or max them at 18 - you really need to get everything you can out of the double-shots. I think it can work well against an elite list, but will likely be poor against hordes (-2 rend is great, but not enough raw damage to dent hordes). Large targets like Nagash, Alarielle, or Maw-Krushas would be a nice matchup. 

Would it be fair to say that I could achieve a similar aim by taking Vanguard Raptors? Sure, no rend, but a unit of three pumps out 27 shots a turn right? Quantity has a quality all of itself holding true, isn't that better surely by weight of firepower?

[DanielFM]

27 minutes ago, Oldshrimpeyes said:

Would it be fair to say that I could achieve a similar aim by taking Vanguard Raptors? Sure, no rend, but a unit of three pumps out 27 shots a turn right? Quantity has a quality all of itself holding true, isn't that better surely by weight of firepower?

Against 4+ save models, 6 Castigators (160 points) with Soulstrike bonus shot should do 4,62 wounds.

3 Hurricane Raptors should do 3,75 against the same target.

Obviously, against less armored targets the Raptors start to get better. But against moderately tough targets, the Castigators deal more damage. Not only that, but they have twice the wounds . 

[GeneralZero]

7 hours ago, Richelieu said:

12 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Dais Arcanum: only wizzards that do not have wounds of 6 or more... That means that the Lord Arcanum (w=6 and LAoGC=7) can't get on the disc. Or did I miss something?

The reason @kozokus said to reread the rule is that it is written in such a way that it is utterly meaningless.  It is an "and" conditional, not an "or" conditional, meaning that all three of the stated conditions must be met in order for it to restrict casting.  So the only units that can't cast it are ones that have 6 wounds or more and have two or more models and are not already on a disc.  No storm cast units meet these criteria, therefore all stormcast wizards can cast it.  It's obviously not what is intended, but it is terribly written.

Honnestly, as a non english native language, I read this as a "or" conditioon  ....and it should be this way for the sake of the game 

But it is also dumb to limit to wound 6. A Lord arcanum on foot should be able to cast it and ride it!

[crux]

Hi,
first post. So I was thinking about building a list around Vanguard Wing(yeah I know it's nerfed, but maybe there is still some potential there?). Idea is to use buff from batallion to get at least a bit of damage output out of 30 Liberators, while stacking defense buffs to get a huge, very resilient unit to take the incoming alpha strikes(after first Hero Phase they are 2+, reroll 1s), while the ranged parts take out opponent's support. Celestant Prime supplements the damage that Libs are lacking and/or he can chip in and take out heroes with the scepter and the orrery.

100 Lord Relictor(Translocation or Blessed Blades)
100 Lord Castellant(General - Staunch Defender)
340 Celestant Prime

520 30 Liberators (6 Grandahammers)
320 10 Judicators (2 Shockbolt Bows)
100 3 Prosecutors(2 javelins + 1 trident)
100 3 Prosecutors(2 javelins + 1 trident)
100 3 Prosecutors(2 javelins + 1 trident)
140 Vanguard Wing battalion

100 5 Liberators

1920 pts

80 pts left:
Excelsior Warpriest(unbind, another gryphhound + heal) or Skink Starpriest(unbind, wizard, another debuff) or 3 Castigators(more shooting + chaff)? Or maybe drop 5 Judicators(though Judicators benefit from extra damage on 6s from batalion, so not sure), take Ballista and Knight Incantor instead?

Could this work? I like the idea of resilient of resilient, buffed block, that takes some initial casualties, shooting takes apart the enemy support and the objective campers(which are then taken by Prosecutors) while the rest of the army is debuffed and slowly grinded down by Liberator Horde and Prime.

 

 

[Richelieu]

3 hours ago, Oldshrimpeyes said:

Would it be fair to say that I could achieve a similar aim by taking Vanguard Raptors? Sure, no rend, but a unit of three pumps out 27 shots a turn right? Quantity has a quality all of itself holding true, isn't that better surely by weight of firepower?

Yes and no.  A bunch of raptors can do as much or more damage than soulstrike, but soulstrike has a much higher model count and is more effective in melee.  Failing your initial strike will have fewer consequences in soulstrike than with a bunch of raptors.  

[Oldshrimpeyes]

I literally have a bunch of castigators saved in an eBay basket and don't know what to do! I really like the concept of a sudden tornado of firepower dropping from the sky but don't want to throw loads of money at a meme. 

[Roark]

14 hours ago, Richelieu said:

Here was the list:

Isn't that list a little bit illegal coz of the General and Battleline?

I've been trying to work out how to get the Dracoth Lord involved in some lists too. Such a cool mini, and mine has a sweet shield from the Fulmis kit.

[ledha]

10 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Against 4+ save models, 6 Castigators (160 points) with Soulstrike bonus shot should do 4,62 wounds.

3 Hurricane Raptors should do 3,75 against the same target.

Obviously, against less armored targets the Raptors start to get better. But against moderately tough targets, the Castigators deal more damage. Not only that, but they have twice the wounds . 

We can also add that the castigator are more manoeuvrable (don't loose a third of their firepower when they move) and are more efficients against nighthaunts and more importantly, demon, who are more common than people would think.

And, surprinsigly, with 2 attacks 4+/4+ each, they can actually kill one-two guys in melee

Edited August 5, 2018 by ledha

[Oldshrimpeyes]

Ok, on a similar vein, what's the comparison like between castigators and judicators? I assume judicators edge it purely on satisfying battleline. No soul strike nonsense of course but I guess you free up loads of points elsewhere. 

[ledha]

Judicators have the upper hand because of battleline and the prime, which add in average 3,5/4 hit.

So it's 5 shots 3+/3+/-2/1 and 1 shot 2+/3+/-2/1  at 18

vs

7/8 shots 3+/3+/-1/1 at 24

The more important thing is that the judicator prime is basically 50% of the unit damage potential. So even if you kill 4 judicators, the prime continue his work. Meanwhile, if you kill 4 castigators, the unit lost lot of firepower

[Oldshrimpeyes]

So, let's say taking all this into account I wanted a solid foundation to build upon at 2k with a heavy sacrosanct vibe.

Would a battleline of 20 sequitors and 2x5 judicators be a solid start?

I want a spicy surprise gunline but I think rather than crippling my army build with castigators I'll just add in 2 or more ballista and old mutton chops. Still plenty of dakka and a huge beard to go with it.

 

 

[Richelieu]

4 hours ago, Roark said:

Isn't that list a little bit illegal coz of the General and Battleline?

I've been trying to work out how to get the Dracoth Lord involved in some lists too. Such a cool mini, and mine has a sweet shield from the Fulmis kit.

LAoGC was general, I wrote it down wrong.

[Erdemo86]

Hey Guys, i need your help. I have 120 spare points in my list thought about allying up with a Wizard. Which Wizards are good to ally up with? Are there some top picks?

[Alfascozzesi]

I have taken an Elven Archmage as his ward save bubble is great as well.

 

[ledha]

elven archmage or wanderer spellweaver are both very good

[Namelessone81]

How everyone see Aventis Firestike? 

Will he see play ? 

Or is he too expensive for the actual value ? 

 

[Luke.w]

If you couple Archmage with Hammers of Sigmar, you can stack two 6+ward saves on multiple units. This will block 30% of incoming damage in average.

[Thor]

On 8/4/2018 at 12:13 AM, Kugane said:

I think they made the wizards expensive so people wont ally them in over their normal wizards. Its the only reason I can think of. 

 

On a side note: can you ally in a comet endless spell?

In general wizards have seen a price increase due to being designed in tandem with malign sorcery and realm spells, having access to a plethora of spells and dispell definitely warrants af higher cost. 

I’m attending war fest Europe and we’ve been issued a notice that realmscape features and realm spells (including malign sorcery) will be in play as suggested by the developers. 

On a side note

Playing with all the optional rules adds a framework for army building that rewards versatility, and punishes “one trick” or spam lists, whilst supplying your games with more variety. I’m definitely a fan. On first glance it seems horrible to apply these random effects to our neatly organized 2k frame,  some of the  effects completely shut down shooting lists.  (Ulgu restrictions to 6inches ) assuming you randomize your realm and realmscape features you still only end up with a 1 in 48 chance of the game punishing you severely. Most of the other effects have a medium impact in the game mostly in a cool or interesting way. 

Versatility is the strength of the Stormcast. And playing with realms and all the optional rules will benefit our play style.

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Thor

[ledha]

2 hours ago, Luke.w said:

If you couple Archmage with Hammers of Sigmar, you can stack two 6+ward saves on multiple units. This will block 30% of incoming damage in average.

And since Firestrike is on a Tauralon, with the mount trait, he can have three 6+ ward save !