AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Thor]

1 minute ago, schwabbele said:

@ThorHaha that does sound like fun   What did you use as BL? 

Liberators x 2 and judicator 

[schwabbele]

Thx, I might buy me one just to play this list, sounds super funny

Wait,  @Thor the Staunch Defender does also apply to the Model which has the trait? 

Edited August 22, 2018 by schwabbele

[Thor]

1 hour ago, schwabbele said:

Thx, I might buy me one just to play this list, sounds super funny

Wait,  @Thor the Staunch Defender does also apply to the Model which has the trait? 

Yes it does  

[Daeaeaene]

I also really enjoyed the Throne of Skulls in Düsseldorf. Had a Lot of fun with my four-ballistas-and-an-ordinator-party-block. Dropping such a thing in the back of an opponent forced him to turn back and so away from the mission objectives. 

[Namelessone81]

16 minutes ago, Daeaeaene said:

I also really enjoyed the Throne of Skulls in Düsseldorf. Had a Lot of fun with my four-ballistas-and-an-ordinator-party-block. Dropping such a thing in the back of an opponent forced him to turn back and so away from the mission objectives. 

Can 4 barista be holy within 9’’ of the ordinator? 

 

[Daeaeaene]

Ohhh yes ?

[Daeaeaene]

12 minutes ago, Namelessone81 said:

Can 4 barista be holy within 9’’ of the ordinator? 

 

Ohhh yes ?

[hughwyeth]

58 minutes ago, Namelessone81 said:

Can 4 barista be holy within 9’’ of the ordinator? 

 

If the baristas stay within 9" for another turn, you get flat whites for free too. 

[Mark Williams]

18 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

If the baristas stay within 9" for another turn, you get flat whites for free too. 

Do they have fluffies too?

[hughwyeth]

23 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

Do they have fluffies too?

No I don't think so, FAQ didn't mention anything. Here's a simple illustration:

Turn 1:

 

Turn 2:

[Daeaeaene]

14 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

No I don't think so, FAQ didn't mention anything. Here's a simple illustration:

Turn 1:

 

Turn 2:

Those tactics are not my cup of tea ?

[Black Blade]

Concerning a Lord Castellant's warding lantern, does rolling 7+ on my save, do those rolls negate damage on saves that failed and mortals inflicted in the same combat? Sorry if this has been asked before.

[Black Blade]

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: Single-minded Fury 
- Spell: Thundershock
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Lord-Castellant (100)
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade 
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Lighntning Blast

Battleline
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 9x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows

Units
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
- 2x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
2 x Fulminators (240)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118
 

I'm about to take on a Deep-kin player who fields an Idolon Aspect of the sea and The High King special character, typically right next to each other and I am unsure of how I should engage him. He will be using the anti charging enclave rules and has a tanky 6 eel unit rerolling 1s on a 2+ save that is in the shadow of that turtle. These three elements of his list I am unaware of how I should deal with these issues with the tools I have at my disposal. Any help would be appreciated thanks.

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, Black Blade said:

Concerning a Lord Castellant's warding lantern, does rolling 7+ on my save, do those rolls negate damage on saves that failed and mortals inflicted in the same combat? Sorry if this has been asked before.

Rolling to ignore damage is not the same thing as a save roll.

[Black Blade]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

Rolling to ignore damage is not the same thing as a save roll.

I know that, the lantern gives me +1 to my save and on a 7+ they heal 1 damage. I'm asking if that healing negates damage taken in the same combat. Like if I failed 3 saves but also got 3, 6's is it a wash or do I lose 1 liberator and heal a wound on the 1 left over?

Edited August 22, 2018 by Black Blade

[Gottkaiser]

The way I understand it, they would cancel each other out, so if you fail 3 Saves and roll 3 times 7+, none of your guys gets hurt.

[schwabbele]

Don‘t think so ,it says wounds allocated. As i understand it you could only heal up already allocated wounds , not the ones you are about to receive.

[AdamR]

In the old FAQ it was stated as healing first, then lose wounds from failed saves.

Just now, schwabbele said:

Don‘t think so ,it says wounds allocated. As i understand it you could only heal up already allocated wounds , not the ones you are about to receive.

What he said!

[Mark Williams]

Wouldn’t choosing to roll them one at a time solve the problem? You allocate 1 wound, then roll saves one after another, healing the wound in the case of a 6, allocating another when you fail? That seems like the most fair thing to do to me. Bit slow, but fair.

[amysrevenge]

To quote a certain rules writer: "What do the words say?"

If we look at page 7 (in my digital version) of the rules, in the Making Attacks box, the steps of an attack go Hit Roll, Wound Roll, Save Roll, Determine Damage.  It is at the Save Roll step that the healing applies.  It is not until after all of the attacking for a unit is finished, that we get to the Allocating Wounds step, at which time the accrued Damage is turned into Wounds.  (Double checking the Lord-Castellant rule, there's nothing in there about changing the timing.)  This is an order of operations that most of us (myself included) get wrong all the time, because it almost never matters.  But the wounds don't get allocated until after all the attacking is done, not on an attack-by-attack basis.  Damage accumulates, but it doesn't turn into wounds until the unit is finished.  (It's another place where there aren't enough words, similar to how they fixed moving by adding "normal move" to the game - we use the "To Wound" roll to determine if we do damage, not if we do wounds.  It's frustrating.)

So, here's where it all comes out for the Lord-Castellant:

The healing all happens in the middle of the attack sequence - after the attacks occur, but before any damage is allocated.

It would not be a useful ability at all if there were any 1W Stormcast models (there aren't).  It is of extremely limited usefulness for 2W models, as you can only ever heal 1W per attacking unit, if there was a model with 1W remaining at the start of that attacking unit's activation.  It is a much more useful ability for 3+W models, especially heroes (and especially especially stardrakes with that big pot of wounds).  Would also do a fine job on Ballistas...

[Mark Williams]

My interpretation of the rules is that attacks happen one at a time. Each attack represents a sequence of events, happening one after the other. You only combine rolls together if it doesn’t affect the outcome. However the lord castellant affects the outcome and forces you to resolve them one at a time. The book to me clear indicates this is how you do it.

example 1: I have a hero with no wounds, you do 5 wounds. 

Roll 5 dice in sequence.

6 (healing effect ignored, save made)

1 (failed save, 1 wound allocated)

3 (save passed)

6 (save passed, 1 wound healed)

2 ( save failed, 1 wound allocated)

End result: 1 wound taken 

 

[amysrevenge]

I get that you'd like for it to be that way.  But the Allocating Wounds section is pretty unambiguous.  Wounds don't get allocated until after all of a unit's attacks have been resolved, through the Hit/Wound/Save/Damage sequence.

Quote

Once all of a unit's attacks have been resolved, add up the damage that was inflicted.  The player commanding the target unit must then allocate a number of wounds to the target unit equal to the damage that was inflicted.

You're long past the point of rolling Saves (and healing, in this case) by the time you allocate any wounds to a model.

 

Edit to add:  In like 99.9% of cases it makes no difference, so the way it universally gets played is that damage = wounds instantly on an attack-by-attack basis.  But it's not accurate to do it that way.

Edited August 22, 2018 by amysrevenge
More to say...

[Mark Williams]

Edit: I see what you are saying now. I was under the impression that attacks were resolved one at a time, and that damage was allocated before moving on to the next attack.

So basically what you are saying is that the only way the heal triggers is if a unit or model starts with a wound existing at the time saves are made for one group of attacks against it.

Example, a unit of liberators with 1 wound remaining.

Attacks are made, save rules are made. 3 6s are rolled for but 3 wounds are allocated. The initial wound is healed, then 3 wounds are allocated - 1 lib dies, 1 remains with 1 wound.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Mark Williams

[amysrevenge]

Here's the problem.  "Resolving" an attack doesn't end up putting any wounds on a target.  They key part is this: "Once all of a unit's attacks have been resolved".  Whether you resolve them one at a time, or all at once, you don't allocate any wounds until the unit (not the model, not the weapon profile, not the single attack sequence) is finished all of its attacks.

You get to the point of Damage right away, one attack at a time.  You don't get to Wounds until all of the attacks for a unit are done.

 

ETA:  This isn't a unique thing for Multiple Attacks.  This is the only place that tells how to allocate wounds.

Edited August 22, 2018 by amysrevenge

[schwabbele]

How would SCE  tackle a death army with Nagash , 2 other heros which can revive models and 2 40er unit skeletons and 30 from those reapers? 

Killing the blobs should not be an issue for evos or sequitors, however that CA which allows them to 100% re-spawn a whole unit is kinda meh. Deep-striking Nagash works only in theory now, killing the other 2 heros could work via an deep-strike but will only hinder their unit restocking .

Another thing which really annoys me, is that we basically have to field blobs too, charging those 40er skeleton units with our "elite" mini units is suicide and will also not work for model count objectives.

What are your thoughts / experiences with on this topic?