AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Evantas]

18 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

So consequences of this change on the rest of the book:

* Liberators and Sequitors streamlined weapon options, assume must be 3/3/-1/1. This also aligns to the Vindictors. Probably explains the big price increase in the new book

This is a huge buff for Liberators, although I think Vindictors with their base 3+ (vs 4+ ignore rend 1) are still superior.  If Sequitors had this profile in 2.0 they would be monstrous, but rend 1 just doesn’t cut it in 3.0. 

* Given that we’ve seen Annihilators and Praetors using that 3/3/-1 stat line I’m guessing that Paladins will be updated to the same with 3 attacks each, distinguished further by special rules or increased damage.

* I don’t expect any changes to Evocators but it would be hilarious if they do.

I'm expecting evocators to standardise to 3 attacks / 3+ / 3+ / -1 rend / 2 dmg.

So 1 point of rend, hopefully with no more increase in points. 

Hoping shields on Liberators and Sequitors means their base save is 3+. 

[Turragor]

I did not see this coming:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/26/dragons-are-back-and-theyre-going-to-change-the-mortal-realms-forever/

Edited July 26, 2021 by Turragor

[lare2]

The new dragons look mint. Cannot wait to see how they play with SCE. 

[jeanfluflu]

11 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I did not see this coming:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/07/26/dragons-are-back-and-theyre-going-to-change-the-mortal-realms-forever/

they looks great, i'm glad i spent 8month of my life sculpting one myself

[Marcvs]

They look pretty generic... I mean, generic dragon + 3 pieces of sigmarite armour 🤷‍♂️ of course I'm still going to buy one but these could be replaced by many 3rd party or 3d prints

[jhamslam]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

They look pretty generic... I mean, generic dragon + 3 pieces of sigmarite armour 🤷‍♂️ of course I'm still going to buy one but these could be replaced by many 3rd party or 3d prints

yeah weirdly enough i felt like the stardrake had more character, but i guess these arent SCE ridden so are more bare bones

[Fuxxx]

Yeah. And other than Dracothion and Sigmar liking each other I don't really feel a strong sense of them belonging to the fraction. But hey that might change, I hated Stormcast until I slightly warmed up to them in 2nd Edition and now I've got quite a lot of models, so maybe I'll learn to love the Dragons after a while. The Stardrake as derpy as it is was still somewhat more unique and had more parts of Sigmarite Armour and stuff to tie them together. And the guy on it's back but that saddle is still a weird thing. Got mine used and wondered for the first few minutes what a weird conversion it was when it was the original sculpt

[LordPrometheus]

I'm stoked. These guys look dope! Apparently the blue one is a wizard buff piece, which SCE really needs.

[LordPrometheus]

1 minute ago, Fuxxx said:

Yeah. And other than Dracothion and Sigmar liking each other I don't really feel a strong sense of them belonging to the fraction.

In the lore, Dracothian and Sigmar were like best buds for life, and Dracothian swore to always help Sigmar. I think that extends to his children too.

[baiardo]

Drakes in SCE have always something derpy but it's easy to love the faction...

Edited July 26, 2021 by baiardo

[Fuxxx]

6 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

In the lore, Dracothian and Sigmar were like best buds for life, and Dracothian swore to always help Sigmar. I think that extends to his children too.

yeah yeah the way I put it was an understatement, still I don't feel they mix that well on the picture. At least not better than allying anyone else in. Which is fine. They do look good mind you. The faces are cool. And maybe we'll get some more with riders

[stus67]

these are literally the best looking dragons gw have ever made, and are the only dragons that actually look like dragons. the star drake looks like a hunk of horribly posed plastic compared to these.

[jeanfluflu]

so far i'm loving the poses and the muscular nature of their body.
I think they look capable and energetic which is a good thing, the texture on their skin is great as well, looks really nice and easy to paint.

On the low side the heads are horrible, too uncanny and cartoon (the eyebrows and beard make the blue one look like a disney character while the horns on the second one looks out of place and too much on the side).

[Maturin]

1 hour ago, stus67 said:

these are literally the best looking dragons gw have ever made, and are the only dragons that actually look like dragons. the star drake looks like a hunk of horribly posed plastic compared to these.

Although they used to be FW, The Carmine, Warpfire and Magma Dragons were pretty dope

Edited July 26, 2021 by Maturin

[mystycalchemy]

Off the topic of Dragons for a moment (though personally, I love them); what do you guys think will differentiate Vanquishers from Liberators/Sequitors/Vindictors? Per the points from the How to Play video, Vanquishers are 125, Liberators 115, and Vindictors 130. 

Obviously there's gonna be quite a lot of changes in the new book, but assuming Liberators, Sequitors and Vindictors remain unchanged from the current FAQs/Dominion Cards, Vanquishers gotta have something to make them an upgrade over Liberators/downgrade from Vindictors. I'd imagine their statline is something like 5"Mv/4+Sv/7Bv/2W (4+ since they don't have shields) but as for their weapon I'm not sure. I was thinking that damage 2 would be decent, but I doubt they would be 3+/3+/-1 still, as they'd just be the obvious best choice. Possibly 2A/4+/3+/-/2 as a potential profile. Could also see them as getting in-built buffs vs monsters (fits with the vanquisher epithet).

Curious to hear what you guys think! This is mostly me just rambling and musing on random thoughts so don't take my suggestions too seriously 😛

[PJetski]

26 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

Off the topic of Dragons for a moment (though personally, I love them); what do you guys think will differentiate Vanquishers from Liberators/Sequitors/Vindictors? Per the points from the How to Play video, Vanquishers are 125, Liberators 115, and Vindictors 130. 

Obviously there's gonna be quite a lot of changes in the new book, but assuming Liberators, Sequitors and Vindictors remain unchanged from the current FAQs/Dominion Cards, Vanquishers gotta have something to make them an upgrade over Liberators/downgrade from Vindictors. I'd imagine their statline is something like 5"Mv/4+Sv/7Bv/2W (4+ since they don't have shields) but as for their weapon I'm not sure. I was thinking that damage 2 would be decent, but I doubt they would be 3+/3+/-1 still, as they'd just be the obvious best choice. Possibly 2A/4+/3+/-/2 as a potential profile. Could also see them as getting in-built buffs vs monsters (fits with the vanquisher epithet).

Curious to hear what you guys think! This is mostly me just rambling and musing on random thoughts so don't take my suggestions too seriously 😛

They'll be like Vindictors but with +1 damage and -1 save

So basically a squad of Liberators with 5 Grand weapons

[mystycalchemy]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

They'll be like Vindictors but with +1 damage and -1 save

So basically a squad of Liberators with 5 Grand weapons

Yes, but then why are they 5pt cheaper than vindictors in the new points? Id value damage 2 over a 3+ easy. Just theory craftin 😛

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, mystycalchemy said:

Yes, but then why are they 5pt cheaper than vindictors in the new points? Id value damage 2 over a 3+ easy. Just theory craftin 😛

4+ can never get better than 3+, but a 3+ save can become 2+, which is the best a save can ever get. I value the 3+ save more than +1 damage.

They're probably also only 1" range.

[Sleepa]

If the tradeoff is the 3+ save, they will honestly need to offer a lot more than +1 damage. I suspect they will have some warscroll abilities to add some additional functionality.

The real question is what the hell is GW doing to Judicators to make them 190 with Crossbows and 200 with bows?! Feels like they must be getting completely new profiles to justify that cost.

[NauticalSoup]

I'm surprised to hear people valuing a single point of armor save over +1D. That's a 33% increase in durability compared to a 100% increase in damage output- and I can tell you that a 3+ save isn't exactly going to keep your guys from melting like butter. I've played with Ironbreakers a long time now and at the end of the day you still just get vaporized by stuff, especially MWs.

And I can't imagine wasting many buffs on basic line infantry whose job is to stand in the path of threats and die, so the potential to go up to a 2+ probably isn't significant in the majority of situations. Double the damage on the other hand turns any MSU battleline option that gets passed over into a much more credible threat.

[PJetski]

A 3+ save is the gold standard in this edition. It is worth much more than just a 33% increase in durability because of how save stacking works.

If theyre using mortal wounds on Vindictors then theyre not using them on your important units. Something needs to absorb enemy charges so unless Vanquishers have fight first they will probably be a waste of points.

3+ save is better than 2 damage for the same reason that Liberators have always been superior to Sequitors - we have other units that can deal damage, and battleline chaff/anvils are more cost effective. I wouldnt pay 10 more points on Liberators to replace their shields with Grandweapons.

If you dont understand how strong 3+ saves are right now I suggest you play more games of AOS 3.0

Edited July 27, 2021 by PJetski

[PrimeElectrid]

7 hours ago, NauticalSoup said:

I'm surprised to hear people valuing a single point of armor save over +1D. That's a 33% increase in durability compared to a 100% increase in damage output- and I can tell you that a 3+ save isn't exactly going to keep your guys from melting like butter. I've played with Ironbreakers a long time now and at the end of the day you still just get vaporized by stuff, especially MWs.

And I can't imagine wasting many buffs on basic line infantry whose job is to stand in the path of threats and die, so the potential to go up to a 2+ probably isn't significant in the majority of situations. Double the damage on the other hand turns any MSU battleline option that gets passed over into a much more credible threat.

A 3+ save boosted twice is a 2+ save vs rend 1, and a 3+ save boosted thrice is a 2+ save vs rend 2. That’s not a “waste”; that’s making your cheapish battleline unit functionally immortal against a significant number of hammer units out there.

Yeah they are weak to mortal wounds, but a) what isn’t and b) they aren’t ganking your key hero so whatever.

Moreover you aren’t necessarily wasting resources when one of those +1 save modifiers could be as simple as standing on terrain.

At a mere 15 points more than Liberators in the new book (assuming no other changes), Vindictors may well be the default battleline choice.

Vanquishers may find a niche as a Lord Imperatant delivered Scions hammer out of battleline, but they will need high rend or mortal wounds output to do this (for the same reasons as above). If you don’t have at least rend 2 or reliable MWs then you don’t cut it as a hammer right now.

Edited July 27, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Sapca]

15 hours ago, stus67 said:

these are literally the best looking dragons gw have ever made, and are the only dragons that actually look like dragons. the star drake looks like a hunk of horribly posed plastic compared to these

https://www.deviantart.com/drifteruk/art/Forge-World-Carmine-Dragon-300326716

What about Carmine Dragon (Forgeworld)

[lare2]

1 minute ago, Sapca said:

What about Carmine Dragon (Forgeworld)

I actually prefer the new ones. 

[Champasaur]

1 hour ago, lare2 said:

I actually prefer the new ones. 

Absolutely same. I understand people not liking them as much because they do somewhat share a resemblance with Spyro dragons, but I personally love their vibe.