AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Lengthster]

All these weird things are fun for us to do, Yndrasta with praetors, Lord Arcanum stacking for maximum explosions, moving after translocation, but they're too strong and I don't think they're intended. Yeah you can play with them, but don't expect to be making any friends if you do. It's one thing to lose to an army with a strong book, but it feels worse when people scramble for cheese like that.

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

Considering what Seraphon, Realm-lords, Archaon SoD lists, and other top class factions are capable of, all these post-FAQ shenanigans for Stormcasts do not seem overpowered. 

If current Stormcast "tricks" make someone lose his friends, then I should say AoS is not a game for them. Mass mortal wound shooting, magic, constant teleportation have existed in this game for a long time, and Stormcasts were quite much bottom tier in this regard.

[Mark Williams]

I just finished Yndrasta, hoping to play her this weekend and see how she does. Thought I would share.

[Mark Williams]

On 7/22/2021 at 9:34 AM, Abstract_duck said:

What FAQ states that? It seems quite relevant to a discussion in the sylvaneth forum a while back, in regards to the new wyldwoods and treelords

It’s in the core rules faq, I believe under Movement… I think. I posted the Q&A above in my original reply.

[lare2]

Another game last night and another win. Means in 3rd, using Thunderstrike units, I'm undefeated... except for games against Soulblight! I just cannot seem to deal with zombies. There's so many of them and their mortal wound output always does me over. Next week I'll be playing Soulblight again and can't seem to write a list I'm happy with. Anyone had any luck against them?

Edited July 23, 2021 by lare2

[Phasteon]

2 hours ago, lare2 said:

Another game last night and another win. Means in 3rd I'm undefeated... except for games against Soulblight! I just cannot seem to deal with zombies. There's so many of them and their mortal wound output always does me over. Next week I'll be playing Soulblight again and can't seem to write a list I'm happy with. Anyone had any luck against them?

Luck is the right word, I dont see Zombies deal more than 4-5 wounds in total, as they have 1 attack each that basically does dmg on a 6 to hit. 

With up to 20 models in contact (more would be unrealistic) its 4-5 MWs if he spikes the hit roll. Rest either doesnt wound or is saved. 

I‘d simply but something that has a) many wounds b) ward or c) is cheap against them. 

Eg 5-10 Liberators will do, or anything within 9“ of the general in a Hammers of Sigmar army. 

Bonus point for Decimators, as they should tear through a Zombie horde in one round of combat. 

[lare2]

Cheers for the pointers - much appreciated! Think you're probably right - need to hit them hard and fast. 

In my xp, backed up with a vamp, you're looking at 40 attacks for, say 20, in a big block. Then you've got danse from a necro, letting them attack twice. Granted, you get to swing back before they attack the 2nd time but with a big block you'd still likely be looking at 20 zombies attacking again. That means, all in, you're looking at 80 attacks. This averages to 13/14 mortal wounds in addition to any attacks that get through and which you, inevitably, fail to save.

With their nuts pile in rules they're super quick and don't need to charge. Plus they come back really easily when fighting infantry. I've had a Stardrake be popped by zombies getting the jump on me. They're horrible little s.o.b's.

[Juicy]

9 hours ago, Phasteon said:

Luck is the right word, I dont see Zombies deal more than 4-5 wounds in total, as they have 1 attack each that basically does dmg on a 6 to hit. 

With up to 20 models in contact (more would be unrealistic) its 4-5 MWs if he spikes the hit roll. Rest either doesnt wound or is saved. 

I‘d simply but something that has a) many wounds b) ward or c) is cheap against them. 

Eg 5-10 Liberators will do, or anything within 9“ of the general in a Hammers of Sigmar army. 

Bonus point for Decimators, as they should tear through a Zombie horde in one round of combat. 

Decimators are a trap.. movement 4 unit with max 7 damage 1 attacks isnt going to tear trough anything in the current game. Not even a a horde of zombies and is likely to get killed in return while doing like 15 damage or so if your lucky.

[Phasteon]

1 hour ago, lare2 said:

Cheers for the pointers - much appreciated! Think you're probably right - need to hit them hard and fast. 

In my xp, backed up with a vamp, you're looking at 40 attacks for, say 20, in a big block. Then you've got danse from a necro, letting them attack twice. Granted, you get to swing back before they attack the 2nd time but with a big block you'd still likely be looking at 20 zombies attacking again. That means, all in, you're looking at 80 attacks. This averages to 13/14 mortal wounds in addition to any attacks that get through and which you, inevitably, fail to save.

With their nuts pile in rules they're super quick and don't need to charge. Plus they come back really easily when fighting infantry. I've had a Stardrake be popped by zombies getting the jump on me. They're horrible little s.o.b's.

Well yeah, but those 40 Zombies backed by a Vampire Lord AND a Necro are 25% of the opponents list, while 10 Liberators are like 10% of yours.

And they should be able to block them for long enough so you can pressure other parts of the board / get an advantageous charge with something that can wipe the Zombies or just killing of the Vampire Lord + Necro, which leaves the Zombies pretty much useless. 

[OkayestDM]

21 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Decimators are a trap.. movement 4 unit with max 7 damage 1 attacks isnt going to tear trough anything in the current game. Not even a a horde of zombies and is likely to get killed in return while doing like 15 damage or so if your lucky.

A single Decimator can easily get upwards of 6 or 7 attacks, even if they're facing 32mm bases. 30+ attack on 3+/3+/-1/1 is nothing to sneeze at, and then there's battleshock, which they penalize the enemy for. 

Granted, Decimators have little value unless facing a horde, but they sure shine when they do!

[Juicy]

14 minutes ago, OkayestDM said:

A single Decimator can easily get upwards of 6 or 7 attacks, even if they're facing 32mm bases. 30+ attack on 3+/3+/-1/1 is nothing to sneeze at, and then there's battleshock, which they penalize the enemy for. 

Granted, Decimators have little value unless facing a horde, but they sure shine when they do!

On theorie yes.. But in practise no and never. Me and some other guys on this forum playing with decimators for a VERY long time because of skyborne slayers. Besides hitting a ironclad with garrisson units they never do enough work against hordes.  Its all theorie. 30 attacks is only 6.6 damage against a 3+ save. and 13 damage against a 6+ save. That aint going to drop hordes not even with battleshock. The return damage could kill your decimators pretty easy. And movement 4 means they most likely getting charged aswell. 30 attacks means almost no starsoul maces to fight anything other than hordes. I would say Decimators are one of the biggest traps sce has. 

[PrimeElectrid]

RUMOURS, GET YOUR RUMOURS

Looks like the repackaged boxes have the new profiles (but not warscrolls).

Vanguard hunters have rend. 
 

Edit: This suggests drastic profile changes across the range. Hard to see how liberators aren’t going to 3/3-1 based on this. Surely this means further buffs to Paladins and Evocators too?

Edited July 24, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[Nizrah]

Profiles but not warscrolls? :C 

[PJetski]

12" range too

[OkayestDM]

4/4/-1/1 isn't necessarily a stellar profile, but given the range increase and the buff to the melee profile, I can get behind it. Besides, in all fairness, Stormcast aren't exactly hurting for decent shooting. It'll be a lot more attractive if they keep the run and shoot rule (and honestly, I can't imagine why they wouldn't.)

This is very promising. If the rest of the SCE can expect to see similar treatment, our army may finally be fun again!

Edit: Also, they merged the blade and axe into one profile (which I'm happy about.) Odds are good we'll see the same thing with Liberators and Sequitors.

Edited July 25, 2021 by OkayestDM

[Roark]

Damn, I'm pretty happy with 2 x rend -1 attacks each @ 12". It gives the unit potential to actually do something meaningful. Fingers crossed that the gorgeous Aquilor model may have a role in the new book too...

[Sleepa]

I'm about to start a slow grow league and I need to lock in a 1000 point list before our new book drops. Assuming I'm stuck with our current points from the GHB, can I get some feedback on:

1x Yndrasta
1x Lord Relictor
5x Vindicators
5x Vindicators
3x Praetors
3x Vanguard Raptors with hurricane crossbows

Was thinking Anvils, Vindicators or Templars

Think it's too scummy to run Yndrasta? I have no idea what the field will look like, but I want to take advantage of heroic actions with a hero that has some legit killing power.

[Marcvs]

10 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

RUMOURS, GET YOUR RUMOURS

Looks like the repackaged boxes have the new profiles (but not warscrolls).

Vanguard hunters have rend. 
 

Edit: This suggests drastic profile changes across the range. Hard to see how liberators aren’t going to 3/3-1 based on this. Surely this means further buffs to Paladins and Evocators too?

I wonder why no full warscroll. have they produced and shipped boxes without them just because they would arrive on the shelves before the battletome?

[Mark Williams]

27 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I wonder why no full warscroll. have they produced and shipped boxes without them just because they would arrive on the shelves before the battletome?

I wonder if they are aiming to no longer give the rules out for free. 

[PrimeElectrid]

So consequences of this change on the rest of the book:

* Liberators and Sequitors streamlined weapon options, assume must be 3/3/-1/1. This also aligns to the Vindictors. Probably explains the big price increase in the new book.

* I imagine Stormsmite Greatmaces will stay as is (as they are distinguished from the base weapon by damage 2), but guess Grandblades and Grandhammers will be adjusted to the same 3/3/-1/2 profile.

This is a huge buff for Liberators, although I think Vindictors with their base 3+ (vs 4+ ignore rend 1) are still superior.  If Sequitors had this profile in 2.0 they would be monstrous, but rend 1 just doesn’t cut it in 3.0. 

* Prosecutors use the same special weapons as Liberators so it follows that these will get an update too. If the baseline SCE melee weapon is becoming 3/3/-1/1 then units with Celestial Hammers become attractive, as they have the mobility to jump onto something vulnerable where their rend will actually matter.

* Given that we’ve seen Annihilators and Praetors using that 3/3/-1 stat line I’m guessing that Paladins will be updated to the same with 3 attacks each, distinguished further by special rules or increased damage.

* I don’t expect any changes to Evocators but it would be hilarious if they do.

* I’m more and more confident about judicators going to 2 attacks each 

* On a related  note I’m 95% confident that all Hero D3 damage weapons will change to flat 2.

Edited July 25, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[PrimeElectrid]

Moar rumours:

The new SCE monster isn’t a mounted character; the monster itself *is* the character. Base 3+ save, 16+ wounds, “pretty mental statwise”, good damage profile, monstrous wounds, model sniping. 
 

via discord

Edited July 25, 2021 by PrimeElectrid

[OkayestDM]

1 minute ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Moar rumours:

The new SCE monster isn’t a mounted character; the monster itself *is* the character. Base 3+ save, 16+ wounds, “pretty mental statwise”, good damage profile, monstrous wounds, model sniping. 
 

via SCE discord

Well, that would certainly distinguish it from the Stardrake, but if true it's quite a departure from the normal Stormcast mount-and-rider setup.

It's also possible that there are mounted and unmounted variants (which would be pretty cool.)

Regardless, odds are good we'll find out tomorrow.

[lare2]

2 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I wonder why no full warscroll. have they produced and shipped boxes without them just because they would arrive on the shelves before the battletome?

The same thing happened in 40k with the transition to 9th. I run Death Guard and there were countless repackaged stat lines before the codex dropped early doors. 

[OkayestDM]

The ol' noggin is whirring now.

The Lord Imperitant provides a solid game buff while synergizing with the new Thunderstrike armor. I wonder if our updated heroes will function similarly?

With so many units stepping on one another's toes when it comes to the role they fulfill, perhaps our heroes will pair with different units or conclaves and allow them all to shine in their own unique way?

Perhaps the Knight-Azyros and Knight-Venator will offer a small boost to Angelos units?

There's already speculation that the Lord-Celestant would synergize with Paladin units, and it would make sense for the Lord-Castellant to boost Redeemer units.

There's a lot of potential in here. I'd still want the units to be solid on their own, with the hero boost kept simple and straightforward but impactful (like, you know, one unit porting in 7" instead of 9").

I know it doesn't pay to wishlist - or to read into something as minor as a single statline change - but I've been starved for anything to get me excited about the new battletome, so I'm indulging myself a little 😛

 

[Fuxxx]

4 hours ago, Marcvs said:

I wonder why no full warscroll. have they produced and shipped boxes without them just because they would arrive on the shelves before the battletome?

Or they just give the rules for different weapons at the appropriate point in the manual so you know which one to take if you don't take the time to look through to the end