AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[xking]

I just can't.

[mystycalchemy]

41 minutes ago, xking said:

I just can't.

Sorry? Can't what? You doin' okay?

[TheArborealWalrus]

Had a real tough game against a pretty nasty Teclis Lumineth list last Sunday.

My opponent's list: 1955pts - Syar - 1 regiment battalion

Spoiler

R - Teclis

R - Cathaller - general

R - 2X10 Wardens

R - 30 Sentinels

R - 5 Dawnriders

R - 5 Swordmasters

spell portal endless spell.

My list: 1970pts - Hallowed Knights - 1 command battalion with 2 beast hunter battalions. Grand Strategy: Keep battleline alive

Spoiler

C - 160pts - Lord Imperitant: general - Hallowed knights artifact + trait

C - 215pts - Lord Celestant on dracoth: amulet of destiny, 

C - 125pts - Apotheosis Knight Vexilor

C - 110pts - Lord Relictor: 

C - 155pts - 3 Praetors

B1 - 190pts - 3 Annihilators

B1 - 185pts - 5 Decimators

B1 - 450pts - 10 evocators: 5 staves, 5 swords

B2 - 95pts - 5 Liberators: sword/shield + grandblade

B2 - 95pts - 5 Liberators: sword/shield + grandhammer

B2 - 95pts - 5 Liberators: sword/shield + grandblade

95pts - 3 prosecutors: dual hammers+ grandhammer

It was a 4 hour knock down, drag out brawl, so this might take a minute.

My opponent had a 1 drop list so he could alpha strike me to his heart's content with Teclis and the archers. I put as much as I could in the sky to try and counteract this. Annihilators, 1 Liberator squad, decimators, evocators, and the prosecutors waited in the sky. The rest of my forces spread out so that he couldn't hit more than a few units. First turn he moved his castle a little forward and nuked the lord celestant. On my turn I shuffled forward and took the primary objective and another. I dropped the annihilators down onto the dawnriders who were just out of unleash hell range. Killed 3 of them from mortals.

My opponent won roll off and killed the relictor, 3 liberators, and the annihilators with a combination of spells and shooting. He expanded his castle a bit and left a miniscule gap for me to reach the archers. I would only be able to get 1 guy in rage so I dropped the evocators with the 7" and the prosecutors. (The vexilor also dropped nearby) The prosecutors charged and ate overwatch for the evocators to ... fail 2 7" charges. I thought I was done at this point

My opponent won the turn and went. He tried to delete the evocators but I got lucky and either denied or passed the 6+ to ignore his spells. Even with a charge from his buffed up wardens, only 4 evocators died. My opponent also charged the vexilor with the leftover dawnriders and tried a teleport charge with his swordmasters. They got his tactic but only the riders made it in. 1 dawnrider and 6 wardens fell in exchange. Those archers had to be dealt with. Fortunately I had a plan to deal with the inevitable overwatch. My lord imperitant had been creeping forward picking off the odd model and now was in position to charge within 3" of the archers with his bodyguards behind him. He ate the overwatch and took 1 wound while a praetor was killed. He did let my decimators make it into his archers though. Even with 5+ attacks each, they didn't manage to wipe out the unit. Something like 12 died in exchange for 3 decimators when Teclis was caught in the combat. 2 wardens were killed by the imperitant. The vexilor popped his banner and brought 2 evocators back and they removed the wardens for an evocator.

I finally won the roll off and took the double turn. Evocators charged Teclis while my spare liberators charged the wardens fighting the iperitant. Teclis took 6 damage (had +2 to his save, giving him a 3+ against all my attacks) and killed 4 evocators while another 6 sentinels were killed for a wound off a decimator. The slap fight continued on the left with 4 wardens dieing for 2 liberators (shining company is annoying). My opponent managed to clear my right flank (plus a liberator) freeing his remaining forces on his turn. We both forgot about his swordmasters and they stayed put. Whoops. I had 2 liberators, the imperitant, the vexilor, 2 praetors, and 7 liberators against Teclis, the cathaller, 5 swordmasters and 12 sentinels.

If I got the turn I won. So of course I didn't. It's alright. He would have to score all the objectives and prevent me from taking any back to win ... Teclis stole the left objective, the swordmasters took the center after the praetors + Imperitant were shot to death (5 more sentinels from rally) and the cathaller ran onto the right. He didn't need to, he just wanted to prevent any funny business. With that I had used all of my scorable battle tactics and lost. Only by 2 points, but still. If Teclis had failed that 9" charge I would've won too. 3 dice rolls from victory. A very close game.

My battle tactics in order were: grab 2 objectives not wholly in your territory, take an objective from them, run with 3 units towards eachother (hallowed knights came in handy here), have 2 units wholly in enemy territory, and then I couldn't score any of the remaining ones with what I had. Before that I had managed to score 1 more point against him every turn, so I was up by 5 coming into turn 5. He had to stop me from scoring and max score ... which he did. Ah well.

A tough game. His list has only lost to OBR and 5 bloodthirsters in our area, so I knew it was rough when I went in. Still, I had quite a few dice rolls where I could have won the game off of them, alas, it was not meant to be. Everything worked as expected in the list. With a 5+ ward the entire game, it was always going to take a lot to kill his stuff. I probably should have taken the destroy a battleline on turn 4, but I didn't trust 3 libs and the imperitant to kill 4 shining company wardens. *shrug* Another point I could've ... tied off of.

With the debate about praetors I asked my opponent if they altered where he shot. He said that they made my general "not worth the effort to kill him", otherwise he would have removed him turn 1 instead of the celestant. The praetors didn't really lay a smack down on anyone, but they tanked the overwatch like champs. It's a tactic I've not heard anyone mention before. Worth considering. Definitely worth it for my precision strike strategy going on in this list. Take a tool for every job and drop it where it hurts.

Phew! That was a long one, and I didn't even include everything. I hope you enjoyed the report and have a good week.

For Sigmar!

Edited July 20, 2021 by TheArborealWalrus

[PJetski]

RAW I think you can cast Empower and then cast a spell from the Lore of Invigoration

[PrimeElectrid]

8 minutes ago, PJetski said:

RAW I think you can cast Empower and then cast a spell from the Lore of Invigoration

Yup. The intention is clearly that they can only ever cast empower or a lore of invigoration spell, but they Britta'd the wording so you can cast two if you do it that way around.

[LordPrometheus]

2 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

 

My opponent won roll off and killed the relictor, 3 liberators, and the annihilators with a combination of spells and shooting. He expanded his castle a bit and left a miniscule gap for me to reach the archers. I would only be able to get 1 guy in rage so I dropped the evocators with the 7" and the prosecutors. (The vexilor also dropped nearby) The prosecutors charged and ate overwatch for the evocators to ... fail 2 7" charges. I thought I was done at this point

 

Sadly, Imperitant 7' charge ability only works with Thunderstrike keyword units. I wish it was everyone. 

[PJetski]

So here's a stupid list that takes advantage of many RAW rulings from the errata

Stormcast Eternals - Stormkeep

Warlord

• Drakesworn Templar
  • General: Staunch Defender
  • Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
  • Mount Trait #1: Storm-winged
  • Mount Trait #2: Storm-winged
• Knight-Heraldor
• Knight-Azyros
• 5x Liberators

Hunters of the Heartlands

• 5x Evocators (Spell: Celestial Blades)
• 4x Concussors

Misc. 

• Battlemage (Ghur: Wildform) (Spell: Levitate)
• Knight-Incantor (Spell: Azyrite Halo)
• 5x Liberator
• 5x Liberator
• Triumph: Inspired (+1 to wound rolls)

1895/2000

Pretty straight forward list. Stardrake is tough and does a ton of damage just by moving around and having enemies attack him. Concussors with +1/+1 and rerolling 1s. Evocators still do a lot of damage.

Battlemage casting Wildform at +1 all the time (usually +2 because of Stardrake) to give a unit +2 run/charge. Combined with Heraldor to run&charge can slingshot any unit forward. Could easily swap out of Stormkeeps if I feel like I need Scions, but the Stormkeep abilities are nice and it keeps options open for Cities units.

I still have 105 points left to spend with many options to consider. Upgrade Liberators to Judicators, upgrade Evocators to Dracolines, add endless spells (Lifeswarm? Geminids?), add another Leader (Runelord?) to have a second Warlord Battalion and get an artefact (Arcane Tome?) or just take Storm-winged a third time 

If they errata their errata I would probably swap the Evocators for an Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix and give him an Arcane Tome.

I'm not even taking advantage of being able to move after using Translocation.

Edited July 20, 2021 by PJetski

[LordPrometheus]

43 minutes ago, PJetski said:

So here's a stupid list that takes advantage of many RAW rulings from the errata

Stormcast Eternals - Stormkeep

Warlord

• Drakesworn Templar
  • General: Staunch Defender
  • Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
  • Mount Trait #1: Storm-winged
  • Mount Trait #2: Storm-winged
• Knight-Heraldor
• Knight-Azyros
• 5x Liberators

Hunters of the Heartlands

• 5x Evocators (Spell: Celestial Blades)
• 4x Concussors

Misc. 

• Battlemage (Ghur: Wildform) (Spell: Levitate)
• Knight-Incantor (Spell: Azyrite Halo)
• 5x Liberator
• 5x Liberator
• Triumph: Inspired (+1 to wound rolls)

1895/2000

 

Looks hilarious and fun! But I do have one question. Do the mount traits stack?? Double Storm Winged is a thing??

[PJetski]

Just now, LordPrometheus said:

Looks hilarious and fun! But I do have one question. Do the mount traits stack?? Double Storm Winged is a thing??

Yes, I don't see any reason why it wouldn't activate multiple times

As per the core rules you can take any Enhancement multiple times, and the Stormcast errata specifically removed the sentence preventing characters from taking multiple mount traits.

[LordPrometheus]

Wow, I missed that somehow. That's really cool!

[lare2]

Staunch Defender +1 save 

All out Defence +1 save 

Castellant's Lantern +1 save 

This also means that the Lantern now allows healing for every save of 4+.

This coupled with Amulet of Destiny would make something very unkillable: +3 to the save roll, 5+ ward save, and every 4+ roll for the save heals a wound. 

Am I reading that right?

[Juicy]

Page 124 – Mount Traits Delete the second and third paragraphs under the header.

Wouldnt this say just the first paragraph. Like: If a stormcast eternals army includes any heroes mounted on blablabla One of those heroes can have a mount trait. 

 

[PJetski]

8 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Staunch Defender +1 save 

All out Defence +1 save 

Castellant's Lantern +1 save 

This also means that the Lantern now allows healing for every save of 4+.

This coupled with Amulet of Destiny would make something very unkillable: +3 to the save roll, 5+ ward save, and every 4+ roll for the save heals a wound. 

Am I reading that right?

Core rules 13.3 - "A save roll cannot be modified by more than +1"

You can have multiple +1 save roll effects but you can never add more than 1 to a save roll, so the castellant's lantern will only activate on save rolls of 6+ (assuming the enemy doesn't have enough Rend to reduce the roll).

Also worth noting that if you have Azyrite Halo you can't use the Castellant Lantern to heal and Azyrite Halo to deal mortal wounds at the same time because they both trigger off a dice roll of 6.

6 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Page 124 – Mount Traits Delete the second and third paragraphs under the header.

Wouldnt this say just the first paragraph. Like: If a stormcast eternals army includes any heroes mounted on blablabla One of those heroes can have a mount trait. 

 

Mount Traits are an Enhancement. When you pick an extra Enhancement from the Warlord battalion you can pick a Mount Trait.

There's nothing in the rules preventing you from picking the same mount trait multiple times or giving multiple mount traits to the same hero.

[Juicy]

31 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Core rules 13.3 - "A save roll cannot be modified by more than +1"

You can have multiple +1 save roll effects but you can never add more than 1 to a save roll, so the castellant's lantern will only activate on save rolls of 6+ (assuming the enemy doesn't have enough Rend to reduce the roll).

Also worth noting that if you have Azyrite Halo you can't use the Castellant Lantern to heal and Azyrite Halo to deal mortal wounds at the same time because they both trigger off a dice roll of 6.

Mount Traits are an Enhancement. When you pick an extra Enhancement from the Warlord battalion you can pick a Mount Trait.

There's nothing in the rules preventing you from picking the same mount trait multiple times or giving multiple mount traits to the same hero.

I think first paragraph is still intact what would make that only one of our heroes can have a mount trait. 

With Ogres its different.

[lare2]

48 minutes ago, PJetski said:

so the castellant's lantern will only activate on save rolls of 6+

D'oh! In my mind, the limit to +1 only affected the actual save, not the healing part. Thanks though! Still pretty tough though. 

[Nizrah]

52 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Core rules 13.3 - "A save roll cannot be modified by more than +1"

You can have multiple +1 save roll effects but you can never add more than 1 to a save roll, so the castellant's lantern will only activate on save rolls of 6+ (assuming the enemy doesn't have enough Rend to reduce the roll).

Also worth noting that if you have Azyrite Halo you can't use the Castellant Lantern to heal and Azyrite Halo to deal mortal wounds at the same time because they both trigger off a dice roll of 6.

Mount Traits are an Enhancement. When you pick an extra Enhancement from the Warlord battalion you can pick a Mount Trait.

There's nothing in the rules preventing you from picking the same mount trait multiple times or giving multiple mount traits to the same hero.

I don't think any sane TO will allow you to use 2x MT... 

[PJetski]

29 minutes ago, Juicy said:

I think first paragraph is still intact what would make that only one of our heroes can have a mount trait. 

With Ogres its different.

If you pick the Mount Trait enhancement you can select a Mount Trait from the list, just like you would with any other Enhancement. It works the same for Spell Lores and learning another spell by taking an Enhancement.

11 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

I don't think any sane TO will allow you to use 2x MT... 

You can use whatever house rules you want, but I would expect TOs to follow the rules of the game as written.

[Juicy]

2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If you pick the Mount Trait enhancement you can select a Mount Trait from the list, just like you would with any other Enhancement. It works the same for Spell Lores and learning another spell by taking an Enhancement.

You can use whatever house rules you want, but I would expect TOs to follow the rules of the game as written.

the thing is, in the SCE rulebook it states only ONE hero can have a mount trait. That overrides taking a second mount trait by Enhancements. Yes you can have 2 but only 1 heroe can have 1. So if you take that second enhancement because of your warlords battalion you have 1 mount trait who you cannot give to any hero.

A mount trait is not mount traits

[Juicy]

I always play this game like its a gentlemens game. We al know how rules are ment to be played and bending and looking for loopholes in never a fun thing. Not in friendly games and not in a tournament. Its the same with people playing with praetors ability of board or people now playing with move after translocate. We know this shouldnt be allowed and shouldnt be played like this. Lets not go that route. No fun winning the easy way right.

[PJetski]

6 minutes ago, Juicy said:

the thing is, in the SCE rulebook it states only ONE hero can have a mount trait. That overrides taking a second mount trait by Enhancements. Yes you can have 2 but only 1 heroe can have 1. So if you take that second enhancement because of your warlords battalion you have 1 mount trait who you cannot give to any hero.

A mount trait is not mount traits

"One of those heroes can take a mount trait" is not in conflict with gaining additional mount traits through Enhancements.

By your interpretation Stormcast can never take additional mount traits for any reason. That's absurd.

2 minutes ago, Juicy said:

I always play this game like its a gentlemens game. We al know how rules are ment to be played and bending and looking for loopholes in never a fun thing. Not in friendly games and not in a tournament. Its the same with people playing with praetors ability of board or people now playing with move after translocate. We know this shouldnt be allowed and shouldnt be played like this. Lets not go that route. No fun winning the easy way right.

That's great for you. I like playing the game as it's written so I can have a consistent experience regardless of where I play and who I play with. 

A consistent ruleset allows me to make value judgements on units and form stronger armies.

A self-perceived moral high ground is not an argument one way or the other.

Edited July 20, 2021 by PJetski

[Juicy]

By your interpretation Stormcast can never take additional mount traits for any reason. That's absurd.

This is whats in the First Paragraph. It was always like that. I played double stardrake for a long time and could never play 2 mount traits with SCE. Even now that the FAQ tells us the second and thirt paragraph is gone the first paragraph stays. That tells us we still cannot have more then 1 mount trait in our army.

[PJetski]

2 minutes ago, Juicy said:

By your interpretation Stormcast can never take additional mount traits for any reason. That's absurd.

This is whats in the First Paragraph. It was always like that. I played double stardrake for a long time and could never play 2 mount traits with SCE. Even now that the FAQ tells us the second and thirt paragraph is gone the first paragraph stays. That tells us we still cannot have more then 1 mount trait in our army.

Yes you could play two mount traits its written right there in that same header how to get more mount traits

It was always the intent that you could take more mount traits. This is why mount traits are Enhancements.

When you take an Enhancement you can take a mount trait from the list, simple as

[LordPrometheus]

32 minutes ago, Juicy said:

Its the same with people playing with praetors ability of board or people now playing with move after translocate. We know this shouldnt be allowed and shouldnt be played like this. Lets not go that route. No fun winning the easy way right.

I don't know what a "praetor's ability of board" is, but none of those things are disallowed. GW specifically re-wrote the rules for the FAQ. It's not "un gentlemanly" to play with the rules that they wrote, as written. 

Besides, we're getting a new tome in a month. There's no reason to bellyache about it now.

[Fuxxx]

How do you think Annihilators with big hammers will work? I posted a pic of converted on Facebook and quickly got any answer to the effect of "there will be one hammer to a unit" "there will be two" or "everyone can have hammers". I know it's all just speculation right now, but I thought with two different guys in the unit with them they'd be able to have a full unit. That would also make sense so they could differentiate the point costs based on that which I'd really welcome. I hate that "everyone costs the same but one option is strictly worse". I have prosecutors with hammers but as long as I don't want to play more than three I never see a reason to use those, since I've got a unit with spears...

My progress so far:

Edited July 20, 2021 by Fuxxx

[Juicy]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Yes you could play two mount traits its written right there in that same header how to get more mount traits

It was always the intent that you could take more mount traits. This is why mount traits are Enhancements.

When you take an Enhancement you can take a mount trait from the list, simple as

Fair enough if you took 1 battalion you could get an extra mount trait.

Still your ignore the first paragraph where its telling you one hero can have a mount trait. We got nothing right now that tells says you can have more then one mount trait in any way. Also there is no where writen that 1 hero can have more then 1 mount trait.  First paragraph explains it al. Im not sure why you read that differant then i do.