AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[PrimeElectrid]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

problem is: why don't you take a copy of the character for redundancy? possible answer, in some cases you can't: named, already at 6 leaders or the character in question has a trait/atrefact that is funamental to your strtefy. but outside of these situations, i'd take (say) a second lord imperatant over the praetors

Ah no you mistake me, problem is that I don’t think some of these characters are worth doubling their cost to protect as they are mostly support heroes. They help with a thing, but is that thing worth spending 260+ points on?

If the enemy wants to try and kill a Knight Incantor or a knight Heraldor are these worth the investment to protect?

Although if you *are* taking an infantry general and not something like a mounted arcanum, then maybe it is worthwhile. But a mounted character always seems superior. What even is a good infantry general now? I don’t think the Imperatant has the right thunderstrike support currently. A Lord-Castellant? Feel like an arcanum GC is superior due to spells/move/wounds/Sequitors. 

[Colgado]

Final point and edge case for praetors. There are 3 grand strategies dependent on keeping characters alive by the end of the battle (general, wizards, priests). That gives them another role in terms of victory points to consider.

[CommissarRotke]

13 hours ago, lare2 said:

Love the new praetor models and thinking of how to run them. I know there's conjecture about how they protect Yndrasta so want to avoid running them with her. Also, she's too quick really so only really see them protecting a foot hero. Anyone had any luck with them? I was kinda thinking of two routes - protecting someone like a Relictor to try and secure Pillars of Faith or have them protecting a combat hero to cause merry hell. 

yea i've been thinking this is the best way to handle praetors since we saw their scroll: pop them on Castellant or a priest to ensure they can buff Yndrasta or bettter heroes

[CommissarRotke]

double post, delete

Edited July 19, 2021 by CommissarRotke

[CommissarRotke]

triple post, delete

Edited July 19, 2021 by CommissarRotke

[lare2]

1 hour ago, Colgado said:

Final point and edge case for praetors. There are 3 grand strategies dependent on keeping characters alive by the end of the battle (general, wizards, priests). That gives them another role in terms of victory points to consider.

I've definitely been thinking the same. It might seem a lot of points to protect a Relictor, for example, but 3VP is 3VP. The last game I played, I won because I got my Grand Strategy and my opponent didn't.

 

[Lightbox]

So I've now joined you all in the wonderful storm hosts thanks to the gorgeous dominion models! And decided to go for a very Ghyran kind of scheme, it's a bit different and the Armour came out different to how I planned but it's grown on me.

Really looking forward to running Yndrasta in lists, she looks really cool and seems to have a couple different ways to play her which is nice. The resurrecting a model could be really useful with some Concussors too, might help them get a bit more out for their points.

[Andalf]

She can only raise models with a 3 wound base profile, but she’s been super clutch in every game I’ve used her, bringing back two or three models a game is no joke, especially when they are Evocators getting pushed back into base to base...

I’m starting to develop my strategy actually quite specifically around her at this point because of how effective she’s truly been.  I just got a Knight Azyros to boost her shooting, double tapping that spear has been glorious as Anvils, she’s a great support character and a stalwart aggro piece for tanking the big scaries, watching her go toe to toe with Avalenor has been a joy.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Andalf

[PrimeElectrid]

If a Lord Veritant takes the arcane tome, how many dispels does he get? 1 or 2?

[Kirby]

Whats the feeling on unit sizes for the new units in Dominion.  Do we think Praetors and Annihilators with continue as a 3 man unit, or will they come later in a box of 5?

I realise the GHB says 3.  But what are the chances that the battletome will change this?

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Kirby

[PrimeElectrid]

24 minutes ago, Kirby said:

Whats the feeling on unit sizes for the new units in Dominion.  Do we think Praetors and Annihilators with continue as a 3 man unit, or will they come later in a box of 5?

I realise the GHB says 3.  But what are the chances that the battletome will change this?

 

The new Annihilators with grand hammers showed units of 3 so fair to say they will come in that size.

[ThalmorRepresentative]

@Lightbox:

I have also joined the brotherhood of Sigmar!

Rushing to get my Celesteial Warbringers to battle standard for a tournament in mid-august!

We'll see if I can make it!

 

[Abstract_duck]

4 hours ago, Kirby said:

Whats the feeling on unit sizes for the new units in Dominion.  Do we think Praetors and Annihilators with continue as a 3 man unit, or will they come later in a box of 5?

I realise the GHB says 3.  But what are the chances that the battletome will change this?

 

My guess is that they'll stay 3. Apart from the reveal, I can imagine that units of 5 will make them stray too close to the paladin units. In units of 3 they fullfill a niche, as far as that's possible in stormcasts.  

Edited July 18, 2021 by Abstract_duck

[jeanfluflu]

I just played a couple of games yesterday.

1000 pts playing arround sacro-sanct chamber, my list was something like this:

Lord arcanum on Tauralon, staunch defender, amulet of destiny
Lord relictor
2x5 sequitors
5 liberators
2 concussors

My friend played ironjawz with a list like this:

Megaboss on mawkrusha
warchanter
2x5 ardboyz
3gore gruntas

We got to try some scenarios present into the rule book, grand strategies...Etc.
The games were fun, and i got to play in each phase of the game (magic, prayers, shooting, monster rampages...Etc).

The tauralon was a true wonder in this configuration, saving me tons of command points (both for staunch defender and for the ability to give +1 to shoot against a target if he flies over it) and adding precious MW output on key targets (he basically one shot the warchanter without even swinging his weapons and even got the upper hand on the already wounded maw krusha in the end).
His flasks abilities are greatly compensated by the amulet and by the healing heroic deeds.

The more i play the dracothian guards the more i love them, they just need some babysitting to be efficient (they don't have a champion so a hero needs to be close to give them command abilities and they can become really CP hungry).
That's also why i love to play the tauralon in addition to them, the +1 to shoot and the +1 to save due to "staunch defender" makes them soooooo solid it should be illegal.
Add the "cycle of the storm" to save a precious wound here or there and some healing ability from the relictor for example and they can become a real nuisance.

Liberators are damn fine too, first time i play them in 3rd edition after the FaQ on the sigmarite shields.
They are so cost efficient, i mean i mostly play them to play the role of the "speed bump" or just scion into an objective and they just become even better at it now.

I have nothing else to say about sequitors, always loved them and i still do.
They are really menacing with the amount of greatmaces they can carry, the 5+ ward is fine without being OP and they look fine as hell.
 

[Nizrah]

Battlereport with broken english time! :"D Today i played a tournament - standard 2k, 18 players, nearly all with competetive list. Table: 

I won all 3 games with major victory. DoK player did too and his army was painted also had more VP so he scored 1 place while I get 2. I played with OBR - place 15, Fyre - place 5 and IDK - place 6. 

My list: 
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (300) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Yndrasta the Celestial Spear (300) in Warlord
Lord Imperatant (160) in Warlord
Knight-Azyros (110) in Vanguard
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Lantern of the Tempest

Battleline
10 x Vindictors (280) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Liberators (95) in Vanguard
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (95) in Vanguard
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
3 x Annihilators (190) in Warlord
3 x Annihilators (190) in Hunters of the Heartlands
2 x Concussors (235) in Hunters of the Heartlands

Endless Spells & Invocations
Celestian Vortex (30)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Vanguard
Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98

Disclaimer: I played with new AA - Blazing Glory. My TO ruled it that i can use it combinated with old AA. 

I love how the "new" stormcast play. Blazing Glory is amazing source of mortals, Anihilators are amazing. They nuke screens and solo units and if they stay in cover good luck without MW. I liked Tauralon for his utility, like speed, huge base for SD, Cycle of the Storm but this demage even with flaming weapon were super meh. Yndrasta is stright amazing. Concussor in all games were superb. In all 3 games I finally after all these years filled that SCE are tanky. With stacked SD, cover, MS, -1 rend from shield, CA they finally have to toss resources to kill even 5 liberators and then they explode and deal mortals wounds!  I hope when we gate a new book its goona get even better. 

[Lightbox]

@ThalmorRepresentative those look amazing!! I especially love the wings you've done on Yndraste gods so well against the red.

[PrimeElectrid]

36 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Battlereport with broken english time! :"D Today i played a tournament - standard 2k, 18 players, nearly all with competetive list. Table: 

I won all 3 games with major victory. DoK player did too and his army was painted also had more VP so he scored 1 place while I get 2. I played with OBR - place 15, Fyre - place 5 and IDK - place 6. 

My list: 
Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon (300) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Staunch Defender
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
- Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
Yndrasta the Celestial Spear (300) in Warlord
Lord Imperatant (160) in Warlord
Knight-Azyros (110) in Vanguard
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Lantern of the Tempest

Battleline
10 x Vindictors (280) in Hunters of the Heartlands
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Liberators (95) in Vanguard
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (95) in Vanguard
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
3 x Annihilators (190) in Warlord
3 x Annihilators (190) in Hunters of the Heartlands
2 x Concussors (235) in Hunters of the Heartlands

Endless Spells & Invocations
Celestian Vortex (30)

Core Battalions
Warlord
Vanguard
Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98

Disclaimer: I played with new AA - Blazing Glory. My TO ruled it that i can use it combinated with old AA. 

I love how the "new" stormcast play. Blazing Glory is amazing source of mortals, Anihilators are amazing. They nuke screens and solo units and if they stay in cover good luck without MW. I liked Tauralon for his utility, like speed, huge base for SD, Cycle of the Storm but this demage even with flaming weapon were super meh. Yndrasta is stright amazing. Concussor in all games were superb. In all 3 games I finally after all these years filled that SCE are tanky. With stacked SD, cover, MS, -1 rend from shield, CA they finally have to toss resources to kill even 5 liberators and then they explode and deal mortals wounds!  I hope when we gate a new book its goona get even better. 

How were you deploying them annihilators? Together or one at a time?

[Nizrah]

5 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

How were you deploying them annihilators? Together or one at a time?

One unit per turn to benefit from 7" range. 

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

How much impact does the new battleplan Tooth and Nails(aka Total Commitment Mk 2021) on writing your army rosters? I started designing my 2,000 Points Stormcast army roster after 6 month hiatus, and I am still clueless as to what heroes I should include. 

My list so far includes Yndrasta, 3 liberator units for minimum battleline, 4 fulminators, 6 longstrike raptors, 3 aetherwings and 3 praetors. And choosing what heroes to bring has been a challenge.

Knight Incantor seems to be an indispensable choice for Stormcasts who are known for their weakness in unbinding enemy spells. And taking her leaves room for roughly 2 heroes on foot.

As of now, I am leaning towards the new knight vexillor for the first candidate. Providing re-rolls for charges is important, but one-use-only resurrection ability is what truly grabbed my attention. Along with Yndrasta's new ability, it is one of the very few abilities that can bring expensive stormcasts back to life. Particularly the ever costly and fragile vanguard raptors. 

Assuming I take Knight Incantor and the new Knight Vexillor, that leaves me with barely enough points for one more Stormcast hero. And frankly, if it weren't for the existence of Tooth and Nails I would have taken Knight Heraldor gladly. The presence of such strangely persistent battleplan however made me consider taking Lord Relictor instead.

Translocation is even more valuable when Scions of the Storm is banned in the battleplan, and because now units can move after being set up. Also, "casting" Translocation is more reliable if I give the High Priest command trait to the Lord Relictor.

The downside is that even with the re-roll, there is more than 10% chance of failing to "cast" Translocation in the critical moment. And of course the loss of unconditional mortal wound bomb from Knight Heraldor.

In regard to teleportation, regular Knight Vexillor with the Pennant of the Stormbringer can provide once-per-game unconditional teleportation. But he is too pricey to include in the list for that single ability alone. And I already have the Thunderstrike Knight Vexillor for charge re-rolls.

All in all, I need to play 3.0 AoS games ASAP to get a hold of how the new system works.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[PrimeElectrid]

21 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

How much impact does the new battleplan Tooth and Nails(aka Total Commitment Mk 2021) on writing your army rosters? I started designing my 2,000 Points Stormcast army roster after 6 month hiatus, and I am still clueless as to what heroes I should include. 

My list so far includes Yndrasta, 3 liberator units for minimum battleline, 4 fulminators, 6 longstrike raptors, 3 aetherwings and 3 praetors so far. And choosing what heroes to bring has been a challenge.

Knight Incantor seems to be an indispensable choice for Stormcasts who are known for their weakness in unbinding enemy spells. And taking her leaves room for roughly 2 heroes on foot.

As of now, I am leaning towards the new knight vexillor for the first candidate. Providing re-rolls for charges is important, but one-use-only resurrection ability is what truly grabbed my attention. Along with Yndrasta's new ability, it is one of the very few abilities that can bring expensive stormcasts back to life. Particularly the ever costly and fragile vanguard raptors. 

Assuming I take Knight Incantor and the new Knight Vexillor, that leaves me with barely enough points for one more Stormcast hero. And frankly, if it weren't for the existence of Tooth and Nails I would have taken Knight Heraldor gladly. The presence of such strangely persistent battleplan however made me consider taking Lord Relictor instead.

Translocation is even more valuable when Scions of the Storm is banned in the battleplan, and because now units can move after being set up. Also, "casting" Translocation is more reliable if I give the High Priest command trait to the Lord Relictor.

The downside is that even with the re-roll, their is more than 10% chance of failing to "cast" Translocation in the critical moment. And of course the loss of unconditional mortal wound bomb from Knight Heraldor.

In regard to teleportation, regular Knight Vexillor with the Pennant of the Stormbringer can provide once-per-game unconditional teleportation. But he is too pricey to include in the list for that single ability alone. And I already have the Thunderstrike Knight Vexillor for charge re-rolls.

All in all, I need to play 3.0 AoS games ASAP to get a hold of how the new system works.

Tooth and Nail (and to a lesser extent Survival of the Fittest) are dumb battleplans that serve only to arbitrarily penalise Stormcast for no damn good reason by making it harder to interact with their allegiance ability which is already restricted. This is the hill that I will die on.

Not only does it force you to bring a 100 point character as a contingency if you want to use your own damn allegiance ability, it makes some characters and units almost irrelevant (annihilators, Imperatant) but it also restricts list building as it forces you towards big units that can be TPd/run and charge.

Yuck yuck yuck.

Anyway I’m taking Translocation as they removed the restriction that allows you to move after. 

[Juicy]

1 hour ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

How much impact does the new battleplan Tooth and Nails(aka Total Commitment Mk 2021) on writing your army rosters? I started designing my 2,000 Points Stormcast army roster after 6 month hiatus, and I am still clueless as to what heroes I should include. 

My list so far includes Yndrasta, 3 liberator units for minimum battleline, 4 fulminators, 6 longstrike raptors, 3 aetherwings and 3 praetors. And choosing what heroes to bring has been a challenge.

Knight Incantor seems to be an indispensable choice for Stormcasts who are known for their weakness in unbinding enemy spells. And taking her leaves room for roughly 2 heroes on foot.

As of now, I am leaning towards the new knight vexillor for the first candidate. Providing re-rolls for charges is important, but one-use-only resurrection ability is what truly grabbed my attention. Along with Yndrasta's new ability, it is one of the very few abilities that can bring expensive stormcasts back to life. Particularly the ever costly and fragile vanguard raptors. 

Assuming I take Knight Incantor and the new Knight Vexillor, that leaves me with barely enough points for one more Stormcast hero. And frankly, if it weren't for the existence of Tooth and Nails I would have taken Knight Heraldor gladly. The presence of such strangely persistent battleplan however made me consider taking Lord Relictor instead.

Translocation is even more valuable when Scions of the Storm is banned in the battleplan, and because now units can move after being set up. Also, "casting" Translocation is more reliable if I give the High Priest command trait to the Lord Relictor.

The downside is that even with the re-roll, there is more than 10% chance of failing to "cast" Translocation in the critical moment. And of course the loss of unconditional mortal wound bomb from Knight Heraldor.

In regard to teleportation, regular Knight Vexillor with the Pennant of the Stormbringer can provide once-per-game unconditional teleportation. But he is too pricey to include in the list for that single ability alone. And I already have the Thunderstrike Knight Vexillor for charge re-rolls.

All in all, I need to play 3.0 AoS games ASAP to get a hold of how the new system works.

I would never go without a knight heraldor if im going with fulminators. This heraldor won me games. Same goes for incantor. Voidscroll worth everything these days. I would love some way to teleport now that im not sure about the lord castellant. ( bet he gets a rework)

[jeanfluflu]

33 minutes ago, Juicy said:

I would never go without a knight heraldor if im going with fulminators. This heraldor won me games. Same goes for incantor. Voidscroll worth everything these days. I would love some way to teleport now that im not sure about the lord castellant. ( bet he gets a rework)

yes castellant could get a rework (maybe give a 5+ ward instead of save bonus) but as it is even right now i think he's still a good option.

Since the bonus save you give to your unit last until your next hero phase it's like saving two or three command points for "all out defense".

You get it at your turn, helping against "unleash hell" and the fight phase, then your opponent plays and you still have the bonus on his shooting phase and his fight phase.

Considering the fact that we generally use that on a key unit meant to last at least one round (lord celestant on stardrake, big blob of sequitor, dracothian guards...etc) i think he's still worth it even if they don't change him.
He loses his uniqueness as he was the only one to give us that type of bonus (and it synergised pretty good with reroll saves of sequitors on reroll ones for dracothians...etc) and we lost that.

But i would still consider him in a configuration where he's my general, helped by praetors and the lantern of tempest he can make a solid bone structure for the rest of the army.

What do you think?

[PJetski]

For what it's worth, Tooth and Nail also punishes summoned units. They can't shoot or charge the turn they are summoned.

I still don't like it because it punishes core army mechanics rather than promoting different unit compositions like the battleplan that only Leaders can hold objectives.

Maybe there will be some way to get around it in the battletome? Annihilators without Scions are not worth their points.

[Marcvs]

54 minutes ago, PJetski said:

For what it's worth, Tooth and Nail also punishes summoned units. They can't shoot or charge the turn they are summoned.

Now they just need to also stop all teleportations (or at least include the same restriction as summoning) and it would be fine

[LordPrometheus]

2 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Tooth and Nail (and to a lesser extent Survival of the Fittest) are dumb battleplans that serve only to arbitrarily penalise Stormcast for no damn good reason by making it harder to interact with their allegiance ability which is already restricted. This is the hill that I will die on.

Not only does it force you to bring a 100 point character as a contingency if you want to use your own damn allegiance ability, it makes some characters and units almost irrelevant (annihilators, Imperatant) but it also restricts list building as it forces you towards big units that can be TPd/run and charge.

Yuck yuck yuck.

Anyway I’m taking Translocation as they removed the restriction that allows you to move after. 

Completely agree. It hoses the core abilities of an army THAT YOU PAY POINTS FOR. It's just lazy design that punishes a few armies for no reason whatsoever.