AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

I would not ponder deeply on how SCE units would perform in 3rd ed., since it is very likely that SCE will get revamped battletome.

Who knows? Maybe Lord-Ordinator might regain his initial command ability which allowed one ORDER WARMACHINE to shoot again. Maybe Ballistas could have better to-hit rolls due to limitations on to-hit bonuses. 

Or maybe they could be nerfed despite being an underperformer. Time will tell.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[feadair]

5 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Sequitors in 5s (great little objective holders, good into MSU, buffed by reroll & modifier change)

Why only in 5s? With 40mm bases, the second rank required by the new coherency rules is still within 1 inch. 

[PrimeElectrid]

17 minutes ago, feadair said:

Why only in 5s? With 40mm bases, the second rank required by the new coherency rules is still within 1 inch. 

1” weapons are a PITA, even more so now.

Besides 3x5 has more grandhammers than 1x15.

[jhamslam]

well the biggest hit to ballista battery is we cant spam the Anvils CA (Assuming it even stays the same) on each ballista

[Marcvs]

13 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

well the biggest hit to ballista battery is we cant spam the Anvils CA (Assuming it even stays the same) on each ballista

Well ballistas were always bad target for it anyway, they were more a rather self contained shooting platform for a list which relied on something else as main strategy and I think they are still decent in that role, depending on their (and the lordinator's) points

[CommissarRotke]

7 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

* Knights Incantor and Lords Arcanum (can now self heal Spirit Flasks)

what does this mean? spirit flask rule was changed or did I miss something about heroes?

 

9 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I feel like this is ultimately the problem with Stormcast. GW need to try to balance making them decent but not overpowering, and so far have been failing (most units are too weak and Sacrosanct units are too good). AoS isn’t big or popular enough to survive a 9th edition Space Marines problem, where marines are basically the best army in the game because everyone else has to wait anywhere between 3 years later for their book of relatively equal power 

Kind of? The real problem is people are taking Dominion as the END ALL BE ALL that Stormcast will be OP because... the Kruleboyz half is weaker. But it's weaker without their reinforcements, without Ironjaws or Bonesplittaz, etc. People dislike Stormcast because posterfaction, and this gets translated into "they got fixed so clearly now they're OP"

[PrimeElectrid]

@CommissarRotke you can now self heal with heroic actions 

[jeanfluflu]

1 minute ago, CommissarRotke said:

what does this mean? spirit flask rule was changed or did I miss something about heroes?

 

Kind of? The real problem is people are taking Dominion as the END ALL BE ALL that Stormcast will be OP because... the Kruleboyz half is weaker. But it's weaker without their reinforcements, without Ironjaws or Bonesplittaz, etc. People dislike Stormcast because posterfaction, and this gets translated into "they got fixed so clearly now they're OP"

Well we kinda have it all, that's what i love with this faction, we can shoot pretty well, have good magic, nice combat units...etc.
Stormcast get rolled in each of these specific roles by specialists though but it doesn't matter at low level.

For example my friends assumed that because i can play with different playstyles my faction is busted and the additions of little things annoy them a lot (for example my DoK friend hates the lantern of the tempest artifact cause it makes him reroll 6 to hit on his stalkers).

These things are not game breaking elements but the addition of all this makes them kind of annoying to play against when you got rolled a couple of times i guess

[Erdemo86]

So sequitors are better than vindictors? Even if sequitors have 4+ save?

[CommissarRotke]

42 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

Stormcast get rolled in each of these specific roles by specialists though but it doesn't matter at low level.

yeah I get this is the overall problem: casually we can roll people, but competitively not. I am hoping second wave reinforcements to other armies help this out since I'm only trying to play casually/narratively. There's a lot more competitive discussion in this forum though, which even though it's clear Stormcast aren't great competitively we still don't deserve a redone battletome that keeps older kits relevant, etc. I'll always love the Stormcast (unless GW makes them hate mortals), so when it comes down to it I only want a book that feels nice, not OP.

[jeanfluflu]

18 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

So sequitors are better than vindictors? Even if sequitors have 4+ save?

Well it depends, on small units i would say yeah probably (depending on the buffs and abilities that thunderstrike allows you to do).

But when you pump the number up (for example a squad of 10) then sequitors with their 1" range get outperformed by the vindictors:



With more CP in the game we'll probably fight against 3+ save more often and the MW on 6 for the vindictors makes a slight difference here.
Also they are more consistent in damages as well.

Edited June 15, 2021 by jeanfluflu

[LordPrometheus]

8 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

yeah I get this is the overall problem: casually we can roll people, but competitively not. I am hoping second wave reinforcements to other armies help this out since I'm only trying to play casually/narratively. There's a lot more competitive discussion in this forum though, which even though it's clear Stormcast aren't great competitively we still don't deserve a redone battletome that keeps older kits relevant, etc. I'll always love the Stormcast (unless GW makes them hate mortals), so when it comes down to it I only want a book that feels nice, not OP.

I don't think it's too much to ask for Stormcast to just be a good, solid, B+ tier army that doesn't get rolled by Seraphon, DoK, and Tzeentch. I'd like to feel I have a fighting chance in a tournament. 

I don't want OP, because OP gets nerfed. 

[Erdemo86]

23 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

I don't think it's too much to ask for Stormcast to just be a good, solid, B+ tier army that doesn't get rolled by Seraphon, DoK, and Tzeentch. I'd like to feel I have a fighting chance in a tournament. 

I don't want OP, because OP gets nerfed. 

Problem is if you make them now b tier, they will be useless in 6 month because other factions will get better battletomes.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Erdemo86

[Marcvs]

2 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Problem is if you make them now b tier, they will be useless in 6 month because other factions will get better battletomes.

while it is easy to feel that way, this is not an inescapable destiny. Some old books have resisted decently (or incredibly well, like IDK or DoK) to the passage of time. My hope for SCE is to be "Ogor Mawtribes" level of power (and in some way, also in terms of "feel")

[jeanfluflu]

3 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

while it is easy to feel that way, this is not an inescapable destiny. Some old books have resisted decently (or incredibly well, like IDK or DoK) to the passage of time. My hope for SCE is to be "Ogor Mawtribes" level of power (and in some way, also in terms of "feel")

what do you mean by "feels like ogor mawtribes level of power"?

Cause i never played against them 

[LordPrometheus]

9 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

while it is easy to feel that way, this is not an inescapable destiny. Some old books have resisted decently (or incredibly well, like IDK or DoK) to the passage of time. My hope for SCE is to be "Ogor Mawtribes" level of power (and in some way, also in terms of "feel")

You're exactly right. IDK and DoK have been VERY strong for pretty much all of 2.0, but they were never "OP". I'd love a book written in that vein. I think Mawtribes is a good template, since SCE want to be elite.

[Nizrah]

9 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

You're exactly right. IDK and DoK have been VERY strong for pretty much all of 2.0, but they were never "OP". I'd love a book written in that vein. I think Mawtribes is a good template, since SCE want to be elite.

Never been OP? Literally DoK and IDK are two the strongest army in the current game (end of 2.0)... Have you ever played competetivly againts them? 

[Freejack02]

13 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

You're exactly right. IDK and DoK have been VERY strong for pretty much all of 2.0, but they were never "OP". I'd love a book written in that vein. I think Mawtribes is a good template, since SCE want to be elite.

DOK was quite OP for a good while there lol. 

[Erdemo86]

36 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

DOK was quite OP for a good while there lol. 

Yeah all of the older factions which are still good, we’re op at release. Fyreslayer,OBR,DoK, to name some.

sacrosanst chamber was something like B/A Tier as it released and now it’s trash tier.. so I Hope the battletome will be very Good, so it will stay competitive till aos 4.0… a lot of People will hate me but I will say it: hope they will be op like Lumineth and seraphon!!

but I don’t think it will be, the new allegiance is nothing strong or even game breaking. The new units look beautifull but rulewise nothing over the top. Stormcast still have the Same problems like before. If that’s our new allegiance ability, than pray to Sigmar..

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Erdemo86

[Captain Badruk]

Do we think the new annihilators will be locked into the dominion box or will they be available on there own down the line? 

[LordPrometheus]

1 hour ago, Freejack02 said:

DOK was quite OP for a good while there lol. 

I don't remember any cries to nerf them though. Not like Slaanesh a couple years ago. Now THAT was OP and flat out oppressive.

1 hour ago, Nizrah said:

Never been OP? Literally DoK and IDK are two the strongest army in the current game (end of 2.0)... Have you ever played competetivly againts them? 

Strong doesn't mean OP. I agree they are very strong, and there's nothing wrong with that. OP is pre-nerf Changehost/Slaanesh/Kroak infinite mortal wound spam. 

[LordPrometheus]

15 minutes ago, Captain Badruk said:

Do we think the new annihilators will be locked into the dominion box or will they be available on there own down the line? 

I'm pretty sure they'll be released separately, and my hunch is they will be upped to squads of 5 like Evocators lol

[Marcvs]

2 hours ago, jeanfluflu said:

what do you mean by "feels like ogor mawtribes level of power"?

Cause i never played against them 

The Ogor "feeling", oversimplifying a bit: elite/very elite, hit hard in combat, relatively straightforward, with limited need of cross-unit buffing and a lot of "sole operators"

[Erdemo86]

What do you guys think about the praetors ability? We talked today with our group about it and everyone’s opinion was that praetors ability is not a ward save, because it don’t says give your attached hero a 5+ ward save. It says if you allocate a wound to your hero roll a dice. So you roll the dice after you used the ward save with your hero and not before.

some informations: our group is a WhatsApp group with 20+ members and I’m the only stormcast player 😅

P.s: Asked now a tournament judge too and he says the same. His example was: 

„only because you use ydresta ward save it doesn’t mean that praetor can’t take the damage! Because it’s 100% clear that there take the damage ability’s is not a ward save, Right? So now you roll for praetors 3/4 they take the damage, 1/2 ydresta takes the damage, 5/6 it’s negated!!“

„Or do you think if you use your ward save you can’t use praetors ability anymore?“

what’s your opinion?

Edited June 15, 2021 by Erdemo86

[PJetski]

It's not a Ward because it is not called a Ward, but it activates "before you allocate a wound" just like a ward activates "before you allocate a wound" so I doubt you can use both the Praetors ability and a Ward. In 2nd edition you would not be able to activate both, but the 3rd edition ruleset is not clear on how this interaction works now.