AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[baiardo]

2 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Are you new here? XDDDD GW hates SCE 

Yes but that's my approach to anything🤣

[jhamslam]

4 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Yes, my italian finally useful!! XD

(this guy is 300 points, so it's more him vs the celestant prime, the battle of the "normal size miniature on top of swirling thing")

Bro you literally cannot fight this thing.

His weapons are 3 inches. he charges in piles in 2.9 inches away ignoring pile in rules.

Good luck on those 1 inch weapons, only evocators can fight this in an SCE army

[Marcvs]

8 hours ago, jhamslam said:

Bro you literally cannot fight this thing.

His weapons are 3 inches. he charges in piles in 2.9 inches away ignoring pile in rules.

Good luck on those 1 inch weapons, only evocators can fight this in an SCE army

the best is that as a melee army you literally cannot catch this thing unless the opponent wants you to. At the moment the warscroll says that he moves 12" at the end of the shooting phase, so in both turns, so he's always 15" or 21" (if you teleported) away from you in the charge phase. Still, probably mostly annoying, the damage from the shooting is not that crazy.

Aanyway, as for all things new in ORDER: anyone spotted something which might be interesting as allies?   I was looking at the twins but I don't see them bringing anything interesting for SCE (and 260 pts is a lot for just the 2.5 CP generation babysitting the general). I was hoping the spell for the 5+ FNP would be on friendly units but nope, it's only on themselves, self-absorbed elves. Is the obsec from the loremaster interesting? Or sevireth himself?

[Juicy]

13 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Yes, my italian finally useful!! XD

(this guy is 300 points, so it's more him vs the celestant prime, the battle of the "normal size miniature on top of swirling thing")

but his role is more simular with the knight venator.. this is how the knight venator fights in the lore

[Nizrah]

[Milano]

A very angry little owl 🦉 😆

[Marcvs]

On 3/25/2021 at 6:01 PM, jhamslam said:

New lumineth Ballista is ....something

100 points 

2 attacks 3+ 3+ -2 d3 damage - 30 inch range

+1 attack if it didnt move

5Ws, 5+ save, 6 up FNP

+1 to hit if a friendly hero is within 24 of an enemy and within 24 of a ballista 

 

On the bright side, ally these in with the ordinator seems good. We can get 4 of these

Just noticed that the LRL ballista does not have the war machine keyword (wut??) so no ordinator anyway.

[jhamslam]

15 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Just noticed that the LRL ballista does not have the war machine keyword (wut??) so no ordinator anyway.

They did it to say "****** Stormcast".  Theirs is far more useful for 10 less points. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by jhamslam

[jhamslam]

15 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Just noticed that the LRL ballista does not have the war machine keyword (wut??) so no ordinator anyway.

I am tempted to get 2 LRL ballistas for my Gav Bomb.

Being able to stack a -2 to hit on things is amazing. Similar to the Allopex, but longer range, slightly cheaper, and with -2 to hit, you can do multiple charging across the front and be relatively safe (the other -1 coming from Shock and Awe)

[Mark Williams]

24 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

I am tempted to get 2 LRL ballistas for my Gav Bomb.

Being able to stack a -2 to hit on things is amazing. Similar to the Allopex, but longer range, slightly cheaper, and with -2 to hit, you can do multiple charging across the front and be relatively safe (the other -1 coming from Shock and Awe)

Unless you're like me and forget that Shock and Awe exists in like 80% of your games.

[jhamslam]

20 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

Unless you're like me and forget that Shock and Awe exists in like 80% of your games.

I literally only ever remember it in Gav bombs haha

[Marcvs]

5 hours ago, jhamslam said:

I am tempted to get 2 LRL ballistas for my Gav Bomb.

Being able to stack a -2 to hit on things is amazing. Similar to the Allopex, but longer range, slightly cheaper, and with -2 to hit, you can do multiple charging across the front and be relatively safe (the other -1 coming from Shock and Awe)

Yes I thought the same, but then again, it's only in your turn and there you should be seriously hurting the unit you're charging and be able to control other engagements (and still get -1). So yeah, could be useful in some situations (to get the -1 in a Skyborne slayers / stormkeep list for instance) but I am not sure it's worth the investment.

Right now, every option I consider for LRL allies I think "wouldn't Kroak be more useful?" (Ok, this was mostly about the twins / sevireth)

[The World Tree]

 

Are you sure we are even allowed to ally LRL?

[Marcvs]

51 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

 

Are you sure we are even allowed to ally LRL?

LRL are ORDER -> Stormcast can ally every ORDER faction -> Stormcast can ally LRL

[jhamslam]

7 hours ago, Marcvs said:

Yes I thought the same, but then again, it's only in your turn and there you should be seriously hurting the unit you're charging and be able to control other engagements (and still get -1). So yeah, could be useful in some situations (to get the -1 in a Skyborne slayers / stormkeep list for instance) but I am not sure it's worth the investment.

Right now, every option I consider for LRL allies I think "wouldn't Kroak be more useful?" (Ok, this was mostly about the twins / sevireth)

Well yes but the problem with multiple charges is , we often risk one unit while the other is fighting.

We dont have Double activation like Lumineth Dumb Lords, so if i charge in with 10 evocators on each flank, i want the other side not dying in combat alternation, where the -2 comes in useful.

 

Keep in mind that it isnt an alternate shot. you will still be doing 3 attacks at 3 3 -2 d3 damage alongside the once per game -1 to hit for that turn

Edited March 29, 2021 by jhamslam

[Marcvs]

2 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

We dont have Double activation like Lumineth Dumb Lords, so if i charge in with 10 evocators on each flank, i want the other side not dying in combat alternation, where the -2 comes in useful.

fair point, if you're going for double charge, then yes, that -2 sure comes in handy

[The World Tree]

1 hour ago, Marcvs said:

LRL are ORDER -> Stormcast can ally every ORDER faction -> Stormcast can ally LRL

Of course. I never use allies, so completely slipped my mind.

Who do we think best fits with us? 

[HammerOfSigmar]

When comparing celestar ballista and the LRL ballista, don't you guy consider the hit roll?

Without any extra buff(those on its own profile will be counted) and shooting things within 18"
celestar ballista equals to  a4 5+ 3+ -2 d6

LRL ballista equals to a3 2+ 3+ -2 d3

average damage for celestar ballista would be 4*1/3*2/3*3.5=28/9

average damage for LRL ballista would be 3*5/6*2/3*2=10/3=30/9

LRL ballista would be slightly better and its cheaper, not to mention d6 have a worse standard deviation than d3(which means more unstable). The only advantage celestar ballista over LRL ballista is that you can ds celestar ballista, but 30" range is long enough for many cases already and it is not impossible to block a 18" ds shooting.

I know somebody might think of adding ballista, but LRL ballista could also take their battalion. Besides, a single LRL ballista could use its once per game ability to debuff key enemy unit. Therefore, I don't see at which situation celestar ballista is better.

 

[CommissarRotke]

3 hours ago, Marcvs said:

LRL are ORDER -> Stormcast can ally every ORDER faction -> Stormcast can ally LRL

are you sure? the Allies table showed only IDK as "allied" for Lumineth... the new book includes a City that has Stormcast auxilia rule and a version for LRL though, which makes that original table even weirder of a design choice

[Marcvs]

17 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

are you sure? the Allies table showed only IDK as "allied" for Lumineth... the new book includes a City that has Stormcast auxilia rule and a version for LRL though, which makes that original table even weirder of a design choice

As long as a new GHB or a FAQ or other publication doesn't update the allies table for Stormcast Eternals in the GHB2020, this is the only rule that matters:

the fact that Lumineth cannot take stormcast units as allies themselves has no impact: rules are not symmetric.

[CommissarRotke]

8 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

the fact that Lumineth cannot take stormcast units as allies themselves has no impact: rules are not symmetric.

oh wow okay, that's a little strange but I'll take it!

[baiardo]

3 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

When comparing celestar ballista and the LRL ballista, don't you guy consider the hit roll?

Without any extra buff(those on its own profile will be counted) and shooting things within 18"
celestar ballista equals to  a4 5+ 3+ -2 d6

LRL ballista equals to a3 2+ 3+ -2 d3

average damage for celestar ballista would be 4*1/3*2/3*3.5=28/9

average damage for LRL ballista would be 3*5/6*2/3*2=10/3=30/9

LRL ballista would be slightly better and its cheaper, not to mention d6 have a worse standard deviation than d3(which means more unstable). The only advantage celestar ballista over LRL ballista is that you can ds celestar ballista, but 30" range is long enough for many cases already and it is not impossible to block a 18" ds shooting.

I know somebody might think of adding ballista, but LRL ballista could also take their battalion. Besides, a single LRL ballista could use its once per game ability to debuff key enemy unit. Therefore, I don't see at which situation celestar ballista is better.

 

The great gap between the two is that you need to take a lord ordinator if you choose the celestar balista

[jhamslam]

the LRL ballista is certainly better when you realise that you dont need a 140 point ordinator to make it work

 

[Evantas]

54 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

the LRL ballista is certainly better when you realise that you dont need a 140 point ordinator to make it work

 

The sad thing is that LRL players don't really think much about their ballista, while for SCE the celestar is already the best shooting piece outside of anvilstrike/super battalions. 

[Joseph Mackay]

On 3/11/2021 at 8:44 PM, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

 

It is as if the rules designers staunchly believe, without concrete evidence, that any reasonable improvement for SCE would immediately throw the overall balance out of the window.

In all fairness, due to the larger player base of Stormcast, it’s actually very likely that any ‘reasonable improvements’ would *appear* to throw off the balance (not necessarily that it would, but due to player numbers it might look like the army is ‘stronger’ than it’s supposed to be)