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AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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16 hours ago, Marcvs said:

The main problem I see in running the Stormkeep without the patrol battalion or skyborne slayers is that you are stuck with liberators moving 5" and losing their bonuses if they do so. I don't think SCE magic can project sufficient power to have the enemy come at you: your opponent might just leave you sitting behind the lines of liberators and score points.

Slightly related, to further my frustration with the treatment of Broken Realms SCE stuff I just watched another episode of Warhammer Weekly saying that changes are fine cause liberators needed a boost, but the patrol battalion should only be kept in the narrative version (Ven Brecht's). Which is like: you can have better liberators, as long as they can't actually do anything in battle

yeah couldnt agree more. I feel this sce book has so much potential that isnt worked out pretty well. When the book first came out in 2018 i instant saw that everything from the warrior chamber was dead. So i started to play skyborne slayers with the lord celestant with a sword of judgement. Had fun times won some tournaments etc. Now im looking at other stuff but nothing in the book seems to work. Even these new battalions dont work in my local meta. 

There are some idea's that look cool for narrative like the list i put up above. But after thinking it trough it just cannot hold up to any really competative. I dont want to get evolved into starcast or the 1 drop shooting list. 

It fustrates me aswell that internet talks about the patrol battalion being so strong while i cannot win a single game with it yet. Did a 60 liberator double patrol battalion yesterday against the new troll battalions. Just couldnt hold up where trolls killing 9/15 liberators a combat fase while the liberators where at 2+ reroll 1. 5 objectives to hold and game was over for me at turn 3 with him having 2 turns to score left. Battleshock is just insane without the skyborne slayer battleshock immume. At this moment i find it hard to do anything els then skyborne slayers if i want to play liberators. 

 

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1 minute ago, jhamslam said:

Can you take Skyborne Slayers in a stormkeep. I know technically there aint nothing stopping ya, but just wondering

afaik, yes you can. In fact, that's what I am testing right now. IF you win the priority for turn 2 (as of course you need to go first in t1) that +1 to save is not bad an you might still have some liberators to profit from it :D I have being using 20 protectors as first "aggressive" wave to draw attention, so the block of 30 liberators survives to get the +1 to save. A big drawback is the loss of "normal" deepstriking, which restricts a lot your flexibility (everything must come down at the same time)

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1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

afaik, yes you can. In fact, that's what I am testing right now. IF you win the priority for turn 2 (as of course you need to go first in t1) that +1 to save is not bad an you might still have some liberators to profit from it :D I have being using 20 protectors as first "aggressive" wave to draw attention, so the block of 30 liberators survives to get the +1 to save. A big drawback is the loss of "normal" deepstriking, which restricts a lot your flexibility (everything must come down at the same time)

I just read the battalion again. Its not wholly within 12. just within 12. Thats quite a lot of distance for some things

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Just now, jhamslam said:

I just read the battalion again. Its not wholly within 12. just within 12. Thats quite a lot of distance for some things

absolutely this is what you can do with that within 12 and a unit of 30 liberators :D (me surrounding 120 mortek guards)

20201116180251_1.jpg.2fe3d5a31dbd93d755a89b19d8dcf943.jpg

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On 11/29/2020 at 4:52 PM, CommissarRotke said:

i do, which is why i ended up picking the army to play :) much more interesting and humanized than space marines, hoping they keep the trend of Stormcast being protectors and not only supercops

I love it to,  from the very beginning.   legions of paladin angels.  sent to take back reality  from five dark powers, an undead mad god and hordes  of rampaging monsters.  

GW stop making my stormcast grimderp and fix the warscrolls!

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6 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Well, there's a TTS tournament this weekend (Hammertime VI), 50 players or so. 5 SCE lists, all using the new stuff

Ye i saw that. While i wish them luck, i doesnt see how they could score better than existing top list like starcast or 1 drop. 

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12 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

Ye i saw that. While i wish them luck, i doesnt see how they could score better than existing top list like starcast or 1 drop. 

No objection here, but still it shows that there is some interest for the new stuff, and that the discussion (or lack thereof) in this forum is not necessarily a good indicator of the reception of the new rules

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35 minutes ago, Nizrah said:

https://tabletop.to/hammertime-6/ladder

So, best SCE come out at 31 with weird roster without any new things from Broken Realms. Roster with 60 libs and Patrol battalion did 0-3 and on 47 place out of 52. 

Yea, besides Starcasts and 1-drop SCE are joke. 

lol that's depressing, the best SCE had the same result and points as my "I just want to relax this weekend" Gargant list. After pushing back for weeks against the hot takes on the new stuff I am kind of happy of this vindication :D

EDIT: still, I think that a Stormkeep list *can* do a bit better than that (say 2-1 in a similar event). However, yes, not very competitive material

Edited by Marcvs
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14 hours ago, Marcvs said:

lol that's depressing, the best SCE had the same result and points as my "I just want to relax this weekend" Gargant list. After pushing back for weeks against the hot takes on the new stuff I am kind of happy of this vindication :D

EDIT: still, I think that a Stormkeep list *can* do a bit better than that (say 2-1 in a similar event). However, yes, not very competitive material

Yeah I think the juice has been fully squeezed from the SC tome but its how many years old now? 2?

Strongest contrast for me is that I dabble a lot in 40k now and Space Marines (poster boys there) went from very strong to still strong between editions. Ofc they are still 1st codex/tome and will suffer in that respect... but I don't think SCE ever had the same level of dominance.

I think the problem is the ruleset - it's harsher on an elite infantry "can shoot/can fight" army

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17 hours ago, Marcvs said:

lol that's depressing, the best SCE had the same result and points as my "I just want to relax this weekend" Gargant list. After pushing back for weeks against the hot takes on the new stuff I am kind of happy of this vindication :D

EDIT: still, I think that a Stormkeep list *can* do a bit better than that (say 2-1 in a similar event). However, yes, not very competitive material

Ill say again. People going for liberator bombs are gonna be disappointed. Theres a reason they moved em to 90 pts and its cus by far the worst battleline in the game with no clear objective on what role it has on the field.

If you wanna do Stormkeep Patrol or Wardens of the Stormkeep (imo the garrison aint that good and promotes slow field play for an already slow army).

Then bring like 10 or 20 Judis , some Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows. Anvils. Use the CP to hammer your opponent.

I can see a Wardens of the Stormkeep list with like 30 or 40 judicators doing well too. But people relying on liberator bombs are gonna be sorely disappointed.
Sequitors on a 3+ re rolling saves havent been good for us in a loooooooong while and somehow people think more of the same but a worse unit by every margin will somehow work? 

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I would have loved to be proven wrong and withness the 60 liberator bomb destroy tournaments for once. But as of now im struggling to see anything from the morathi book work.

I 100% argee with Jhamslam that the garrison battalion doesnt really work in a competative point of view. Its to slow and the wholly within 12 inch is super anoying.

i hope people make the stormkeep patrol work. Im trying my best to play with differant lists but as of now i cannot seem to make it work in my competative envoirment. I did try 60 libs. Failed to win 3 times. did try 30 libs 20 juds. Failed to win twice. Tomorrow im going for the 9 hurricane raptors. To look how that goes, list goes up to a 4 drop then. 

If we get a new book what do people want for liberators? i feel like we want to be able to put some buffs on them to make them killy enough to do stuff. I think the basic liberator can be oke if we got acces to +1 rend or +1 damage buffs. ( ive tryed the vanguard wing but the damage on a 6 is just terrible). These guys are on 40mm they should be stronger.

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1 hour ago, Juicy said:

If we get a new book what do people want for liberators? i feel like we want to be able to put some buffs on them to make them killy enough to do stuff. I think the basic liberator can be oke if we got acces to +1 rend or +1 damage buffs. ( ive tryed the vanguard wing but the damage on a 6 is just terrible). These guys are on 40mm they should be stronger.

I don't like the idea of liberators being killing machines, but i like the fantasy behind the "shield of civilisation" rule.

Ideally i'd like them to get some bonuses when they are in big numbers just like chaos warriors (20+ units ignore -1 rend for example so it does not create some really stupid line units with 1+ save stacking buffs while still retaining some durability).

Maybe they can get additionnal rules depending on the type of general leading them, they are supposed to be the spine of every stormhost and some custom rules could really help them to adapt to the flavor of each type of stormcast army:

-If a lord celestant/castellant/relictor is the general they get reroll 1's to hit.
-If a lord Arcanum is the general they get exploding hits (6's to hit deals 2 wounds.....magic thunder don't ask for more).
-If a lord aquilor is the general they get +1 to run and charge.

At 90pts for 10 wounds and a 4+ save they are pretty cheap and i like it that way, that's why minor buffs like this is a solution i'm hoping for.

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4 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

I don't like the idea of liberators being killing machines, but i like the fantasy behind the "shield of civilisation" rule.

Ideally i'd like them to get some bonuses when they are in big numbers just like chaos warriors (20+ units ignore -1 rend for example so it does not create some really stupid line units with 1+ save stacking buffs while still retaining some durability).

Maybe they can get additionnal rules depending on the type of general leading them, they are supposed to be the spine of every stormhost and some custom rules could really help them to adapt to the flavor of each type of stormcast army:

-If a lord celestant/castellant/relictor is the general they get reroll 1's to hit.
-If a lord Arcanum is the general they get exploding hits (6's to hit deals 2 wounds.....magic thunder don't ask for more).
-If a lord aquilor is the general they get +1 to run and charge.
At 90pts for 10 wounds and a 4+ save they are pretty cheap and i like it that way, that's why minor buffs like this is a solution i'm hoping for.

I like the idea of specific heroes work with buffs like this. I also love the chamber idea where specific unit combo's buff one another.
I would like stormcast to be more expensive and are better on the board. I dont mind smaller units but they need to feel like a strong unit. For example i dont like a unit of 15 protectors but 15 do work wonders. I would love for 5 protectors to be expensive and be as strong as 8/10 are now. So we got a smaller army but unit do hit harder. I love my 30 libs but i feel im playing horde armies right now.
 

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22 hours ago, Marcvs said:

lol that's depressing, the best SCE had the same result and points as my "I just want to relax this weekend" Gargant list. After pushing back for weeks against the hot takes on the new stuff I am kind of happy of this vindication :D

 

Same here. I'm still recovering from laughing at the guy who was screaming that a blob of Liberators charging T1 was "broken". LOL 😂

Clearly, that person had never played with Liberators before.

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1 hour ago, Juicy said:


If we get a new book what do people want for liberators? i feel like we want to be able to put some buffs on them to make them killy enough to do stuff. I think the basic liberator can be oke if we got acces to +1 rend or +1 damage buffs. ( ive tryed the vanguard wing but the damage on a 6 is just terrible). These guys are on 40mm they should be stronger.

Move them back to 100 pts. Increase their base hit to 3+ . Give them +1 save if 10 or more models.

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1 minute ago, Juicy said:

I like the idea of specific heroes work with buffs like this. I also love the chamber idea where specific unit combo's buff one another.
I would like stormcast to be more expensive and are better on the board. I dont mind smaller units but they need to feel like a strong unit. For example i dont like a unit of 15 protectors but 15 do work wonders. I would love for 5 protectors to be expensive and be as strong as 8/10 are now. So we got a smaller army but unit do hit harder. I love my 30 libs but i feel im playing horde armies right now.
 

I agree, they don't feel like the heroes they're supposed to be and it probably comes from the history of AoS, since liberator is the base metric from which the rest of the game was built their profile is pretty average.

But then , AoS is suffering like most games from a real powercreep issue with the most recent armies getting crazy good units (those ****** eels with 2+ unrendable saves looks like a nightmare, i don't want to talk about vanari sentiel spam...etc).

This said i think one option to get them to a better place could be to nerf some of these problematic rules like GW did with FNP on the last general's handbook or maybe some very simple unit limits for tournament plays can do the trick, things like: "a list cannot get more than 2 units of the same type in a tournament army"...etc.

I'm far from the best person for this but i feel this would sanitize the game a bit and allow for more room for our chaps with golden pecs.

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