CommissarRotke Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 ^yeah I was confused because I thought Staunch needed a target, which would be Stormcast, which isn't possible from a COS general. but it's an aura so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchleuderMann2 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 On 11/17/2020 at 3:00 PM, Juicy said: We kind of knew this part already but this doesnt say it cannot be the general and get command traits like that. It just avoid irondrake shooting twice on anvils of the heldenhammer etc etc I am sorry but I do not understand, it is written there that this rule allows you to use a sce hero to issue a command ability of the sce book (anvils ability) to a CoS unit ( Irondrakes) What do i miss there ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SchleuderMann2 said: I am sorry but I do not understand, it is written there that this rule allows you to use a sce hero to issue a command ability of the sce book (anvils ability) to a CoS unit ( Irondrakes) What do i miss there ? The rule says that SCE Heroes can use command ability on a CoS unit "as if" this unit had the STORMCAST ETERNALS keyword. The anvils ability requires the unit to have the ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER keyword, which the CoS units presently do not get the reason why CoS unit do not get the ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER keyword is that only STORMCAST ETERNALS unit get it and presently CoS unit in a Stormkeep do not get this keyword (they only count as having it for command abilities) Edited November 18, 2020 by Marcvs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchleuderMann2 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 ok thank you, this would possibly have been too strong anyway... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Even if they could use the Anvils ability, nothing in the COS book has both the range and damage output you need to make that command ability worth using on them. I think it will always be better used on 20 Judicators or 9/12 Longstrikes. I suppose you could build some kind of ultra shooty list with a big block of Judicators and a big COS shooting block, but I think going all-in with shooting and not having Scions available is too risky for objective play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, PJetski said: Even if they could use the Anvils ability, nothing in the COS book has both the range and damage output you need to make that command ability worth using on them. I think it will always be better used on 20 Judicators or 9/12 Longstrikes. I suppose you could build some kind of ultra shooty list with a big block of Judicators and a big COS shooting block, but I think going all-in with shooting and not having Scions available is too risky for objective play. well if you *could* use it (which you cannot) you could bridge in 30 irondrakes and a hero and shoot in the hero phase. Even with the shorter bridge it would still give them enough range in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Marcvs said: well if you *could* use it (which you cannot) you could bridge in 30 irondrakes and a hero and shoot in the hero phase. Even with the shorter bridge it would still give them enough range in most cases. Consider that as per the FAQ they don't get their bonus shots in the hero phase, so you would be getting only 30 shots in the hero phase (assuming you get all the models within 16" range) and even after teleporting their 16" range limits their potential targets. Relying on naked cast 6 and then leaving irondrakes exposed to charges seems like a poor idea when you could just bring in Judicators/Longstrikes instead. 20 Judicators doing 32+8d6 shots at 24" is better than trying to squeeze in 30+60 shots at 16", especially when you give the Judicators +1 hit. Furthermore, Judicators have 40 wounds and easily get +2 to saves, and count as a battleline unit. I just can't see any single unit in COS I would rather use instead of 20 Judicators (in the scenario where you can use the Anvils ability on a COS unit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) So I am seeing a lot of kneejerk reactions to the new rules for SCE, and the idea of blocks of liberators blocking people in their deployment through the patrol battalion. This seems... excessive? While I don't deny that the new rules are good (I am painting some dusty liberators right now), the only difference with what you could *already* do is the shield of civilisation. What I mean is: you could already drop 2x30 liberators 5" from the opponent with Slayers or Gav Bomb 30 of them, which is in fact more flexible than the patrol battalion. Does the +1 to save (cause even with +1 to hit the damage is lackluster for the investment) justify these reactions? Am I missing something? EDIT: Ok I just finished the Wahammer Weekly show and they even called for a FAQ to rein the patrol battalion in 🤷♀️ Edited November 19, 2020 by Marcvs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I think people are always primed to complain about the rules for the poster-factions in Warhammer. But unlike 40k, AOS has been spreading the rules-love around to (mostly) all other factions, and Stormcast are never at the same level as Marines in terms of releases and rules. I was actually coming in to ask if the +1 to hit from SoC means that swords are solidly the bottom choice for liberators now I much prefer the look of the swords, but a 3+/3+ sounds a lot better than a 2+/4+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, Marcvs said: So I am seeing a lot of kneejerk reactions to the new rules for SCE, and the idea of blocks of liberators blocking people in their deployment through the patrol battalion. This seems... excessive? While I don't deny that the new rules are good (I am painting some dusty liberators right now), the only difference with what you could *already* do is the shield of civilisation. What I mean is: you could already drop 2x30 liberators 5" from the opponent with Slayers or Gav Bomb 30 of them, which is in fact more flexible than the patrol battalion. Does the +1 to save (cause even with +1 to hit the damage is lackluster for the investment) justify these reactions? Am I missing something? I think you make a fair observation. Liberators were already underrated on the cheapness of their durability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 31 minutes ago, Marcvs said: So I am seeing a lot of kneejerk reactions to the new rules for SCE, and the idea of blocks of liberators blocking people in their deployment through the patrol battalion. This seems... excessive? While I don't deny that the new rules are good (I am painting some dusty liberators right now), the only difference with what you could *already* do is the shield of civilisation. What I mean is: you could already drop 2x30 liberators 5" from the opponent with Slayers or Gav Bomb 30 of them, which is in fact more flexible than the patrol battalion. Does the +1 to save (cause even with +1 to hit the damage is lackluster for the investment) justify these reactions? Am I missing something? i feel the same.. going to testplay some stuff this weekend but i cannot see myself winning on just liberators blocking stuff against most competative dudes i play. It seems a bit better on paper then when you have to play the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanfluflu Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said: I think people are always primed to complain about the rules for the poster-factions in Warhammer. But unlike 40k, AOS has been spreading the rules-love around to (mostly) all other factions, and Stormcast are never at the same level as Marines in terms of releases and rules. I was actually coming in to ask if the +1 to hit from SoC means that swords are solidly the bottom choice for liberators now I much prefer the look of the swords, but a 3+/3+ sounds a lot better than a 2+/4+ in terms of stats it more or less the same thing, you can check here pretty easily:https://aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com/ With 30 attacks each a sword hitting on 2 and wounding on 4 would do 6.25 wounds on a 4+ save A hammer hitting on 3 wounding on 3 would do 6.67, slightly better but not gamebreaking. Even with modifiers such as reroll ones to hit for example the difference accross saves is at 0.5 more wounds advantage for the hammer (again on a volume of 30 attacks). Not that big of a deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Marcvs said: So I am seeing a lot of kneejerk reactions to the new rules for SCE, and the idea of blocks of liberators blocking people in their deployment through the patrol battalion. This seems... excessive? While I don't deny that the new rules are good (I am painting some dusty liberators right now), the only difference with what you could *already* do is the shield of civilisation. What I mean is: you could already drop 2x30 liberators 5" from the opponent with Slayers or Gav Bomb 30 of them, which is in fact more flexible than the patrol battalion. Does the +1 to save (cause even with +1 to hit the damage is lackluster for the investment) justify these reactions? Am I missing something? EDIT: Ok I just finished the Wahammer Weekly show and they even called for a FAQ to rein the patrol battalion in 🤷♀️ Liberators just arent that good, theyre an annoyance. The reactions are coming from people who are totally ok with amped out books like KO, Seraphon and Tzeentch. Like Gargants will wreck 30 libs, even on a 2 or 3+ save. they have no MW defense whatsoever, no summoning really. I think its good, certainly as a defensive list and an alternate strategy to win on objectives instead of just pure "you need to kneecap your opponent with SCE or lose". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firtahl Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: I think people are always primed to complain about the rules for the poster-factions in Warhammer. But unlike 40k, AOS has been spreading the rules-love around to (mostly) all other factions, and Stormcast are never at the same level as Marines in terms of releases and rules. I was actually coming in to ask if the +1 to hit from SoC means that swords are solidly the bottom choice for liberators now I much prefer the look of the swords, but a 3+/3+ sounds a lot better than a 2+/4+ The real advantage to the hammers is that SCE have a number of ways to get +1 hit. That means its easy to get 2+/3 on hammers, but swords only ever sit at 2+/4+ due to the general lack of +1 wound. Without buffs they are close dmg wise, but once you stack some + hit the hammers start coming out ahead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizrah Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I really find these rules mostly useless in terms of meta gaming. I will try to use them but i really dont think that they will bring anything. If it was addition to current AA it would be great but losing deep strike is to big. Also our biggest weaknes - obscure warscrolls wasnt even touched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) Just to add some fuel to the discussion about the new (broken) batallions Wholly Within: 43x40mm Bases fit inside a 12" bubble around a Model in the Middle. 23x40mm for 9". Edited November 19, 2020 by JackStreicher 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Holy ******, people are so predictable. Those rules are here like for a week, no tourneys what so ever have been played. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 hours ago, firtahl said: I was actually coming in to ask if the +1 to hit from SoC means that swords are solidly the bottom choice for liberators now Just play them as counts as...This is not 40K wysiwyg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: Just play them as counts as...This is not 40K wysiwyg You cant bring them to a tournament then.. its kind of sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPrometheus Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 58 minutes ago, schwabbele said: Holy ******, people are so predictable. Those rules are here like for a week, no tourneys what so ever have been played. Every time SCE gets anything even remotely decent, people ****** and moan instantly and cry for nerfs. It's pretty pathetic. Stormcast players aren't allowed to have nice things apparently. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Im trying to make a strong list with the patrol battalion but so far i found it hard to keep the drops low. I can do a lot of 3 drops but never a 2 drop list. I feel if you want to go patrol.. you want your drops as low as you can get. I dont have 70 liberators ready but i got 30. did any one play a game with this battalion already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, Juicy said: Im trying to make a strong list with the patrol battalion but so far i found it hard to keep the drops low. I can do a lot of 3 drops but never a 2 drop list. I feel if you want to go patrol.. you want your drops as low as you can get. I dont have 70 liberators ready but i got 30. did any one play a game with this battalion already? not yet, but when I try it will be with a 2 drop list of 2 patrols: 2x(1 veritant, 30 liberators, 5 judicators, 6 doggos) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkayestDM Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, CommissarRotke said: I was actually coming in to ask if the +1 to hit from SoC means that swords are solidly the bottom choice for liberators now I much prefer the look of the swords, but a 3+/3+ sounds a lot better than a 2+/4+ If you included a unit of Evocators, you could always cast Empower on the Sword Libs, allowing them to reroll failed wound rolls and thus increasing their viability. Granted, there's really no reason to use Empower on Liberators when you have a perfectly good unit of Evocators right there, but from a purely technical standpoint it's one way to make the swords more viable. Edited November 19, 2020 by OkayestDM 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 8 hours ago, LordPrometheus said: Every time SCE gets anything even remotely decent, people ****** and moan instantly and cry for nerfs. It's pretty pathetic. Stormcast players aren't allowed to have nice things apparently. An abusive auto win with no counter play whatsoever isn‘t nice, it‘s cheap, unfair and should not exist. „I deployed, you can give up now!“ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 9 hours ago, Juicy said: You cant bring them to a tournament then.. its kind of sad No tournament I ever went to had an issue with „all my liberators with swords actually have hammers“. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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