AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[jeanfluflu]

2 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

RAW it applies to shooting too ("add 1 to hit rolls for attacks")

very nice then!

[PrimeElectrid]

I really don’t know if it’s going to be worth giving up Scions for some of this, especially as the battalions involve extra cost.

 

Pay for the batallion to get +1 to hit on Raptors, and have to take Paladins, or... just use those points to take more Raptors.

 

Any neat uses of CoS units to shore up the usual weaknesses? (Battleline & numbers).

[PJetski]

20 Judicators with +1 hit is really good for Anvils

[Juicy]

5 minutes ago, PJetski said:

20 Judicators with +1 hit is really good for Anvils

i like this. Feels cool. 

[Juicy]

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Lord-Celestant (100)
- General
- Artefact: Soulthief
Lord-Castellant (120)
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Shriving Light
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Vexillor (110)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer
- Treasured Standard (Artefact): Pennant of Sigmaron
10 x Liberators (180)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 2x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
10 x Judicators (280)  (probly swap for bows)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 2x Thunderbolt Crossbows
10 x Protectors (340)
- 4x Starsoul Maces
10 x Retributors (380)
- 4x Starsoul Maces

Battalion Wardens of the Stormkeep 140
Battalion Stormtower Garrison 160
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131

This feels pretty decent. Not fine tuned but im going to play test this pretty soon. The 300 points of battalions are pretty steep. It worries me a bit if its worth it. The wardens of the stormkeep might not be worth it. 

The plan: 2 drop so let your opponent first and drop in your own zone and hold objectives. Let them come close. Then stand fast with enough CP te reroll saves of 1 and a lord castellant to buff your save even more. Then strike back in your hero face with : Heroes from another age: and then strike again on the combat face. Move a bit forward and let them come again. Meanwhile the judicators can pepper them from far with that +1 to hit and cp to strike twice. Or use the xbows and teleport them 9 and nuke something and if you fail you vexillor them back behind the paladins. Not going 5-0 but ive used these tricks a lot with skyborne slayers and it got me 3-0 and 3-2 the last 2 events.

 

[Nozdormu]

5 hours ago, Marcvs said:

liberators seem to get +1 to save if they do not move (nice if you deploy them via scions)

if they didn't move or weren't set up that phase

so after teleport/deepsrike you have to wait to your next turn to use Shield of Civilisation

Edited November 7, 2020 by Nozdormu

[PJetski]

The battalion uses any JUSTICAR unit so you can also use vanguard raptors. Hurricanes don't have the range to make use of the anvils command ability. +1 hit is still somewhat useful for Longstrikes to mitigate the common hit debuffs. Judicators have both the range and always benefit from +1 hit, but they don't move Aetherwings. 

With Staunch and Stand Fast Liberators have +2 to saves all the time so you may not even need Aetherwings any more

Bringing a Cities unit as your general allows you to take Staunch Defender even if you pick a stormhost (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this) so I hope everyone has a frostheart Phoenix ready to go.

This book is a big deal for competitive stormcast!

[Juicy]

12 minutes ago, Nozdormu said:

if they didn't move or weren't set up that phase

so after teleport/deepsrike you have to wait to your next turn to use Shield of Civilisation

as i read it now we lose scions of the storm right? and we get Shield of Civilisation 

[Nozdormu]

3 minutes ago, Juicy said:

as i read it now we lose scions of the storm right? and we get Shield of Civilisation 

Yes, but still you can teleport/deepstrike units via heroes, units or batalions abilities

[PrimeElectrid]

37 minutes ago, PJetski said:

The battalion uses any JUSTICAR unit so you can also use vanguard raptors. Hurricanes don't have the range to make use of the anvils command ability. +1 hit is still somewhat useful for Longstrikes to mitigate the common hit debuffs. Judicators have both the range and always benefit from +1 hit, but they don't move Aetherwings. 

With Staunch and Stand Fast Liberators have +2 to saves all the time so you may not even need Aetherwings any more

Bringing a Cities unit as your general allows you to take Staunch Defender even if you pick a stormhost (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this) so I hope everyone has a frostheart Phoenix ready to go.

This book is a big deal for competitive stormcast!

What’s so good about frostheart?

[jeanfluflu]

10 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

What’s so good about frostheart?

Never played it but looking at the warscroll the -1 to wound debuff aura seems a pretty big deal

Edited November 7, 2020 by jeanfluflu

[Marcvs]

11 minutes ago, jeanfluflu said:

Never played it but looking at the warscroll the -1 to wound aura seems a pretty big deal

yeah but it's for enemies within 12" (and melee only)

[PJetski]

43 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

What’s so good about frostheart?

Big base to spread staunch defender, fast and durable (usually 3+, 4+ ignore, lots of wounds) and the -1 wound aura

[rosa]

Somehow I dislike "Soup" Armies although some COS Warscrolls are pretty nice.

I really have to think about rather boosting efficiency and loosing "style" (personal opinion).

Nevertheless, some interesting discussions regarding list building are coming. That's cool though.

[Juicy]

2 hours ago, Nozdormu said:

Yes, but still you can teleport/deepstrike units via heroes, units or batalions abilities

yeah we can but then you cannot give them shield of civilisation.

Cause it says you cannot do it if you move or made a set up move.  sadly;)

[schwabbele]

Well well well, that pile of crack finally pays off Literally everything which might be good is instant available including the phoenix

[Marcvs]

54 minutes ago, Juicy said:

yeah we can but then you cannot give them shield of civilisation.

Cause it says you cannot do it if you move or made a set up move.  sadly;)

well depending on how you use them, it's not the biggest issue? I mean, it's only problematic if you teleport them to charge, but as long as you teleport them to take an objective that's all good

[Requizen]

So basically trade Scions for non-Ally Cities units and a few decent Battalions. 

From a design standpoint, I like it. It feels like a choice, not completely better than basic SCE (since Scions is really, really good), but there's a reason to go a Stormkeep if you want. 

Personally, not sure there's a Cities unit I really feel the need to take, other than maybe some chump units as chaff? Or maybe a decent Wizard. 

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

Personally, not sure there's a Cities unit I really feel the need to take, other than maybe some chump units as chaff? Or maybe a decent Wizard. 

I think the strongest use would be the already mentioned tough CoS general on a big base in a stormhost so you can circumvent the stormhost trait and take Staunch Defender. But I feel like that is probably getting FAQd - not because it's strong but because it's too convoluted to be intentional.

Edited November 7, 2020 by Turragor

[Nizrah]

I hate how their idea to fix sce is to add units from another army... ****** you gw 

[Nozdormu]

Maybe in future Broken Realms books SCE will get something to boost Sacrosanct and Extermis Chambers.

And Frostheart Phoenix with Staunch Defender would be most useful in combat oriented army. But I don't see any good combat list that could benefit from this.

[Zamik]

I'm wondering how the "Stand fast" might apply to Steelheart's Champions. They're liberators, so they should get that +1 to saves, and then they also have their heroic guard ability that gives a +1 to saves when they are charged. Their melee profiles are decent too, especially with the bonus. Not a big unit, but maybe durable enough to be a pain where you need someone to?

[Scurvydog]

The wardens battalion seems like a stretch at 140, I guess it should end up being 2 CP in average + 1 and artifact. I don't like it being så random... The rest is decent, although a shame it is based on being even less mobile. 4" move paladins with no deep strike? Ugh. 

[Nozdormu]

9 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

The wardens battalion seems like a stretch at 140, I guess it should end up being 2 CP in average + 1 and artifact. I don't like it being så random... The rest is decent, although a shame it is based on being even less mobile. 4" move paladins with no deep strike? Ugh. 

It's true that Wardens batalion is expensive - 140 points + Lord-Celestant tax. Too many to pay back in most situations.  
But the real purpose of this batalion is to reduce number of drops so with garrison batalion it is possible to make a 2-drop list which allows to take first turn and teleport big block of Liberators on objective.
I don't think it will be competitive but the rules are written to support this turtle strategy.

[jeanfluflu]

my big question here about the warden battalion is about the lord celestant that we have to take.

Is this the one on foot or is it the lord celestant keyword?

If this is the keyword it could allow us to take the lord celestant on dracoth and use his CA to create a 24" immune bravery each turn, combine this with staunch defender and the general rule for the liberators and we can have a pretty solid anvil line here (2+ save, rerolling ones ignore bravery tests).

2 drop army is good, but the killing units will be the raptors again, even though paladins are decent i don't count on them to flip a fight.
To maximize it you want to take anvils of heldenhammer, which doesn't allow us to get the defensive buff i mentionned earlier...

In this case, maybe protectors paladins can help right there with their -1 to hit to projectiles, and if you have 2 battalions you have the possibility to take the lantern too (reroll 6 to hit for missile weapons) which could help against shooting armies (even though i(m not sure it's enough).

There's plenty of possibilities to boost up some low units but i'm not sure it's enough to make it truly powerful (liberators with 3+ save are nice, but they are not combat geniuses to stay polite).