AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Nizrah]

Hey guys, what about little challange? 

Lets make a list that will make our fav HAMMER boiz - Retributors work  

[Lucur]

2 hours ago, Nizrah said:

Hey guys, what about little challange? 

Lets make a list that will make our fav HAMMER boiz - Retributors work  

Take Gav, surecharge them in, wonder why you didn't take Evocators in the first place

I don't see a slow, expensive unit accomplish much against current lists. They lack the survivability to weather shooting and MWs, they lack the speed to cover the board (which can be fixed but increases the investment even further) and even if they hit melee, those hammers don't quite crunch the way they should. Which makes any first generation SCE fan sad. The other paladins at least get skyborne slayers to deliver them.

[Mattrulesok]

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Order - Stormcast Eternals) [1,990pts] ++

+ Leader +

Knight-Heraldor [100pts]

Knight-Incantor [120pts]

Lord Kroak [320pts]

Lord-Castellant [120pts]: Faithful Gryph-hound

Lord-Relictor [100pts]: 2. Bless Weapons

+ Artillery +

Celestar Ballista [110pts]

Celestar Ballista [110pts]

+ Battleline +

Liberators [90pts]: 5 Liberators

Liberators [90pts]: 5 Liberators

Liberators [90pts]: 5 Liberators

+ Other +

Aetherwings [40pts]: 3 Aetherwings

Aetherwings [40pts]: 3 Aetherwings

Retributors [380pts]: 2x 5 Retributors

Skinks [60pts]: 10 Skinks, Skink Alpha

Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows [170pts]: 3 Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals: Celestial Vindicators

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

+ Command Points +

Purchased Command Points [50pts]: 1 Command Point

++ Total: [1,990pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

So the idea is no one is afraid of retributors. kroak snipes with his comets and generates cp but also exists as a distraction kroakifex. The ballista and longstrike drop into cover to snipe enemy units and create threats across the board, liberators capture objectives and try to steal points, aetherwings steal objectives and screen. Skinks screen the retributors and steal objectives where possible. 

To make the retributors good well be adding a few buffs to them. Celestial blades from the incantor, mystic shield from kroak, castellant buff and bless weapon from relictor. The heraldor than helps the retributors to move quickly and make a surprise charge hopefully armed with all their buffs, than take the rerooll 1s with celestial vindicator on charge and cp +1 attack on charge. 

The idea is the other team will be more concerned with more well known threats (ballista, longstrike, kroak) and dismiss the retributors as slow and having low damage output. The msu's exist to steal as many points as possible, its very possible this team will take heavy losses but still have grabbed enough vp's to win. I don't think you're going 5-0 but you might get some fun games out of this team and get a few stunned faces when the retributors tear a hole in something big and scary. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Mattrulesok

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Nizrah said:

Hey guys, what about little challange? 

Lets make a list that will make our fav HAMMER boiz - Retributors work  

Can I choose Decimators?
(sureheart) charge them into a garrisoned KO ship. My 5 man unit, with a 9+ charge, got 44 3+ 3+ -1 dmg1 + 11 3+ 2+ =1 dmg 1. And you know I also spend a command point for re-rol 1's to hit. Can't remember how many wounds I did, but the Frigate was empty and left on one wound. Mostly because I divided them up badly. 

Don't need anything other in that list

 

EDIT: just now did the math, and realised I was pretty lucky 😂. Still great feeling to roll 55 dice. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Kramer

[Tizianolol]

Guys in Vanguard Wing battalion, if i play doble hammers liberators with exploding 6s, one 6s to hit explode in 1 attack more with +1 damage too? Thx!:)

[Mark Williams]

11 hours ago, Nizrah said:

Hey guys, what about little challange? 

Lets make a list that will make our fav HAMMER boiz - Retributors work  

I actually have a list I mess around with at friendly games , I’ll post it a little later.

[Maturin]

3 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys in Vanguard Wing battalion, if i play doble hammers liberators with exploding 6s, one 6s to hit explode in 1 attack more with +1 damage too? Thx!:)

Yes. Lord Relictor with Bless weapons = 6 to hit = +1 hit on target
Vanguard Wing trait 6 to hit =  +1 Dmg

You roll a 6 : One normal hit at D2 + One exploding hit at D2. Best unit for that is judicators. They've got rend unlike liberators, and they've got Shockbolt bows (D6 hits). When you roll a 6, you've then got yourself 7 hits at D2.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Maturin

[Maturin]

Just for fun, I'd like to try that :

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Knight-Incantor (120)
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (90)
- Warhammer & Shield
12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (560)
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (420)
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (340)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
Vanguard Justicar Conclave (120)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107
 

[Tizianolol]

@Maturinthat seems strong. Now with point drop so you think that battlion can be competitive? Maybe a block of 10 liberators and 15 judicators seems a good force to deal with it! 

 

[Maturin]

18 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

@Maturinthat seems strong. Now with point drop so you think that battlion can be competitive? Maybe a block of 10 liberators and 15 judicators seems a good force to deal with it! 

 

The only thing you have to do is to try it :). I'd personally go for 20 juds, 2*5 libs, since the libs are a tax. Anvil of heldenhammer for double tap, take a very hard anvil unit from another book if you want to protect the juds and heroes.
Offensively, liberators aren't really interesting. Plus you can't cast the prayer on both juds and libs at the same time.

[Tizianolol]

 

if you build liberators with doble hammer you got exploding 6s without prayer, and you can give prayer only on Judicators.  The question is : why no one play liberators dual wield?:) 

[Maturin]

6 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

 

if you build liberators with doble hammer you got exploding 6s without prayer, and you can give prayer only on Judicators.  The question is : why no one play liberators dual wield?:) 

My guess would be because they've got no rend and the only weapon worth benefiting from the rule, the grandhammer, doesn't.
Don't forget they're reach 1", so you can't have 30 liberators hitting at the same time + BIG PHAT BASE.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Maturin

[Maturin]

5 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

 

if you build liberators with doble hammer you got exploding 6s without prayer, and you can give prayer only on Judicators.  The question is : why no one play liberators dual wield?:) 

If you play narrative battles or against a friend, make a wizard with the anvil of apotheosis, take the -1 to save rolls spell for 1 enemy unit, then 10 libs with paired warhammers would be worth it.

[Tizianolol]

Nono i play most of the times on tts, unfortunatly im very busy with my job now! I wanna test only 10 liberstors. Its true 1" range hurts!!:)

[Tizianolol]

Sorry for doblepost, im planning to test that in a week on tts:

Hammers of sigmar

Lord Castellant 120

-general

-talisman of endurance 

- trait : we cannot fail

 

Lord Arcanum on Tauralion 280

- god forged blade

- keen klawed mount trait

- spell: chain lighting 

 

Celastant Prime 300

 

Lord Relictor 100

- Bless Weapons

 

10 liberators 180

- 2 hammers 

 

5 liberators 90

-Hammer and shelds

 

15 judicators 420

- bows 

 

3 x3 Prosecutors 270

- javellins and shields

 

Vangard Wings 140

 

Endless spell: comet

Tot 2000

 

What do you think guys?:) ty all

Edited August 14, 2020 by Tizianolol

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Lord Relictor 100

- Bless Weapons

Never thought about this. But might be a cool combo with my decimators, that I bring for scaring hordes away 😅

[Sapca]

9 hours ago, Maturin said:

You roll a 6 : One normal hit at D2 + One exploding hit at D2. Best unit for that is judicators. They've got rend unlike liberators, and they've got Shockbolt bows (D6 hits). When you roll a 6, you've then got yourself 7 hits at D2.

You roll 6 (once) - Prayer and Battalion Ability trigger for this dice roll.

You get +1 damage on this one roll

This roll makes another hit (at 0/no dice rolled, it's not 6 its not 1... it's just extra hit)

Normally this means that first hit (roll of 6) gets +1 damage and creates extra attack at normal damage (see longstirike sample below)

---

But Judicators ability is written interestingly

When roll with Shockbow hits at any roll from 2-6 it doesn't do damage... but creates 1d6 hits. Sockbolt bow is just laser tag for Sigmar to throw lightning down like it's written now.

This could mean that on initial hit roll of 6 with shockbow:

* that no Hits get +1 damage from battalion (6d1+1d1) since all hits are created and not rolled.

* that players agree that 1 hit does 2 damage, rest do 1. (1d2+5d1+1d1) (this is fair imo, but likely not correct by rules BUT likely how designers imagined it)

* that all bow hits get 1 damage from battalion (6d2), but this would also mean that those 6 hits are considered "roll of 6" which would also then create 6 extra hits from prayer and not just 1 extra hit (6d2 + 6d1) (definitely not correct)

PS. Also Ballista suffers from same rule, if it's somehow possible to give it +1 damage on "Whenever 6 is rolled for hit". Single Balista with later understanding of this interaction would have 72 damage potential (4d6 hits of roll 6 (24d2), extra hits (24d1)) or 49 damage if you say +1 damage works, but extra hits do not from those 6xes.

---

It's same/similar treatment with mortal wounds and other triggers on ROLL 6. If you get extra hit, those do not trigger as there's no roll.

Extra hits (created) cannot trigger extra hits also, since they have no roll. This was in FAQ's also.

With Longbow Raptors + exploding prayer, on roll of 6 you get = 2mw + hit (that needs to wound save & save check). Not auto 4 MW.  Same for Retributor lightning hammers... etc.

Hmm. If these two could get +1 damage on 6... what happens?  Extra MW, nothing or you need to roll attack sequence that you were ordered to stop? (damage =! MW)

[Tizianolol]

Oh, so my liberators with 2 hammers on 6s to hit i cant have 2 attacks with d2? Only 1? If thats true vanguard wings is usless imo.

And about Judicators,  basically a 6 for normal guys score 1 hit d2+ 1hit d1. Shockbow seems usless in that battalion so. I think we need FAQ here, anyone played that battalion in tournament?

[Kramer]

4 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Oh, so my liberators with 2 hammers on 6s to hit i cant have 2 attacks with d2? Only 1? If thats true vanguard wings is usless imo.

And about Judicators,  basically a 6 for normal guys score 1 hit d2+ 1hit d1. Shockbow seems usless in that battalion so. I think we need FAQ here, anyone played that battalion in tournament?

I think you use the word ‘useless’ wrong. Its just not as good as you had hoped. But yes, @Sapca ‘s explanation is spot on. 

[Sapca]

5 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Oh, so my liberators with 2 hammers on 6s to hit i cant have 2 attacks with d2? Only 1? If thats true vanguard wings is usless imo.

Well, yes each hit of 6 with bless on will also explode and deal extra hit so d2 + d1.

In normal scenario where Liberators do not have prayer on (there are better targets), Vanguard Wing doubles their damage on 6's. That's quite good, for Liberators

Paired weapons on liberators give you reroll of 1 for that extra bit of consistency without use of CP. Can be ok if you can ensure/improve charge without actually targeting them (Gav Bomb, Hallowed Knights, Vexxilor,... ) since it's unlikely those Liberators will get any defensive bonuses. Also makes them bit immune to roll 1 hit triggers (DoK Medusai - Temple Nest - hitting them with 1s is 1 MW suffered).

In Vanguard Wing, 5 libs should do ~4 damage to 4+ save target (1 more than their average) which is actually huge passive increase. But really, you want to shove them into 6+/- save target where they would draw some gazes with ~8 damage.

[Maturin]

6 hours ago, Kramer said:

I think you use the word ‘useless’ wrong. Its just not as good as you had hoped. But yes, @Sapca ‘s explanation is spot on. 

😢

[Tizianolol]

5 hours ago, Sapca said:

Well, yes each hit of 6 with bless on will also explode and deal extra hit so d2 + d1.

In normal scenario where Liberators do not have prayer on (there are better targets), Vanguard Wing doubles their damage on 6's. That's quite good, for Liberators

Paired weapons on liberators give you reroll of 1 for that extra bit of consistency without use of CP. Can be ok if you can ensure/improve charge without actually targeting them (Gav Bomb, Hallowed Knights, Vexxilor,... ) since it's unlikely those Liberators will get any defensive bonuses. Also makes them bit immune to roll 1 hit triggers (DoK Medusai - Temple Nest - hitting them with 1s is 1 MW suffered).

In Vanguard Wing, 5 libs should do ~4 damage to 4+ save target (1 more than their average) which is actually huge passive increase. But really, you want to shove them into 6+/- save target where they would draw some gazes with ~8 damage.

Paired wepons is like the prayer right, its not a reroll, am i wrong?

[Sapca]

6 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Paired wepons is like the prayer right, its not a reroll, am i wrong?

Oooh! Sorry, I had old warscroll in my mind!

They had reroll 1's, now they have exploding 6's on default! HA. "Each unmodified hit roll of 6 for model.... inflicts 2 hits"

Ugh this by RAW creates same issue as with Judicators. GW should FAQ this as it's so common in SCE.

Liberator with Vanguard Wing + Bless Weapons:

1 attack, roll 6 = 2hits (no roll for them) from paired + 1 hit from prayer.

* 2d1 + 1d1 (all hits were created, not rolled - likely RAW and also sad way to look at it as it negates Vanguard's Wing +1 damage)

* 1d2(initial hit) + 1d1(extra hit from paired) + 1d1 (prayer) (this is how I would rule it as it seems fair - full damage potential goes from 1 to 4... from 1x 6 roll versus 5 hit roll.)

* if Paired two hits would be both considered as if "Roll 6" happened... then liberator with paired and prayer would generate 4 hits on 6. With 2d2 (first two) + 2d1 (prayer). But this also then extends to Judicators and Ballista. I don't think there's chance of this being ever ruled like this.

---
I went back to double check core rules...

This is all there is, no mention of how to handle those multi-hit's "Dice/Roll Wise":
Sometimes a single successful hit roll will score 2 or more hits. If this is the case, make all of the wound rolls for those hits at the same time, and then all of the save rolls.

 

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Sapca

[jhamslam]

On 8/13/2020 at 2:39 PM, Nizrah said:

Hey guys, what about little challange? 

Lets make a list that will make our fav HAMMER boiz - Retributors work  

The way to make em work is with CP and Prayers

Relictor Bless Weapons on a Retributor Unit. 

Take Gav and Kroak in a Hammers oF sigmar list - On avg you should have 3 command points for that turn. 

Use 2 on Gav charges one for RR1s to hit. Or take a lord celestant on foot, and spend a CP to give em +1 to hit. Or take Vandus and use his CP ability to give em +1 attack
 

Thats when theyre worth it, our just take evocators theyre better. Rets need to be like 170 for them to be a reasonable take, theyre basically Hearthguard but not battleline or FNP, and an extra wound.

[Mark Williams]

2 hours ago, Sapca said:

Oooh! Sorry, I had old warscroll in my mind!

They had reroll 1's, now they have exploding 6's on default! HA. "Each unmodified hit roll of 6 for model.... inflicts 2 hits"

Ugh this by RAW creates same issue as with Judicators. GW should FAQ this as it's so common in SCE.

Liberator with Vanguard Wing + Bless Weapons:

1 attack, roll 6 = 2hits (no roll for them) from paired + 1 hit from prayer.

* 2d1 + 1d1 (all hits were created, not rolled - likely RAW and also sad way to look at it as it negates Vanguard's Wing +1 damage)

* 1d2(initial hit) + 1d1(extra hit from paired) + 1d1 (prayer) (this is how I would rule it as it seems fair - full damage potential goes from 1 to 4... from 1x 6 roll versus 5 hit roll.)

* if Paired two hits would be both considered as if "Roll 6" happened... then liberator with paired and prayer would generate 4 hits on 6. With 2d2 (first two) + 2d1 (prayer). But this also then extends to Judicators and Ballista. I don't think there's chance of this being ever ruled like this.

---
I went back to double check core rules...

This is all there is, no mention of how to handle those multi-hit's "Dice/Roll Wise":
Sometimes a single successful hit roll will score 2 or more hits. If this is the case, make all of the wound rolls for those hits at the same time, and then all of the save rolls.

 

 

One of the FAQs explains this situation. If you have a wsrscroll ability and a prayer or something that triggers an extra attack on a 6, both abilities trigger and you get 2 extra attacks on a 6.