AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[schwabbele]

Comet has 36 range you should be able to deploy out of dispell range and hope the initial blast wreaks havoc . 
The 12 longstrikes also came to my mind, but I don’t wanna buy a box atm so not gonna try that. 

 

[Evantas]

I would probably spend points to mount the evocators on dracolines. Huge boost in mobility. 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, schwabbele said:

Comet has 36 range you should be able to deploy out of dispell range and hope the initial blast wreaks havoc . 
The 12 longstrikes also came to my mind, but I don’t wanna buy a box atm so not gonna try that. 

 

Kroak can unbind the whole table. Is Teclis limited to the normal dispell range?

[scrubyandwells]

On 7/3/2020 at 9:32 PM, scrubyandwells said:

Many of us have dreamed of this day...

The Vanguard Chamber build...anything you'd do differently below re: hero/artefact/mount trait selection?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Lord-Aquilor (170)
- General
- Command Trait: Deathly Aura
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Mount Trait: Wind Runner
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Lantern of the Tempest
Knight-Venator (110)
- Artefact: Luckstone
Knight-Venator (110)
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (170)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber (130)
Vanguard Angelos Conclave (150)
Vanguard Justicar Conclave (120)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Wounds: 103

Edited July 10, 2020 by scrubyandwells

[schwabbele]

26 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Kroak can unbind the whole table. Is Teclis limited to the normal dispell range?

Just cut my thumb and now this. 😅 at least i finished the mount from the aquilor

[Scurvydog]

3 hours ago, jhamslam said:

Aggro lists may make a comeback. Gavriel Sureheart in particular.

Gav still forces Hammers of Sigmar though, that is a big ask. Getting that charge is also fine and all, but SC can't really go and brawl in a lot of cases, only something really beefy can make a dent, and will still be murdred by any army with the ability to strike first. This also goes for Skyborne slayers which is cool, but brining a bunch of paladins into the lines of many types of lists is not that dangerous to begin with.

I don't have any great alternatives though, SC does not have the tools to consistently deal with the heaviest hitters in the meta currently no matter what you bring. Though as much as some lists will hard counter SC and the comet (Teclis auto unbind each turn anyone?), some lists really hates it, like the support characters from DoK, Orruks and Khorne for example.

 

 

[Turragor]

SC were a 3-2 (4-1 with a dose of luck) army anyway so we don't really need to worry about preserving a tourney win streak, going 5-0 and taking 1st place. That's new tome talk.

With that in  mind I'd just focus on what's already strong or - if there's nothing SC can do to reliably counter LRL/Seraphon (in particular as these will be oh so popular), just track all factions that WILL counter LRL and then build lists against those.

Then hope to dodge the nasty matchups - the big risk is the chance of drawing Tzeentch, then LRL, then Seraphon and losing before you hit the tables with mix of lists you've better chances against (and maybe you'll meet a new player with Tzeentch, LRL or Seraphon again :D)

So I think, things aren't going to change much for us other than squeezing in a few new treats in existing strong lists and, perhaps, finding something hot and new (the Vanguard Chamber - for instance) with the points reductions and the absolute last drop of  juice, the last ounce of hope from our big-strong-handsome storm-boys.

That and meme lists.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Turragor

[Marcvs]

 

25 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Though as much as some lists will hard counter SC and the comet (Teclis auto unbind each turn anyone?), some lists really hates it, like the support characters from DoK, Orruks and Khorne for example.

The problem (from my perspective of Starcast player) is also that with all the counters to support heroes popping up (Seraphon comets, LRL archers) more armies will have to consider this threat and potentially build around it, making it harder to pull it off also with Stardrakes / everblaze / prime

 

[Scurvydog]

19 minutes ago, Turragor said:

the Vanguard Chamber - for instance

While the idea behind this list is cool (I doubt I will ever own it as a starcast player though, as buying that is basically just buying a new army with no model overlap), the Vanguard list possible now has small MSU units and the heavy hitters are 6 wound units. Seraphon and LRL and even other starcasts or KO will simply delete the msu raptors, 6 wounds is so easy to remove for these ranged threats and will take all bite away from that list.

Who else benefits much from that 1 attack? The hunters and paladors become slightly less crappy, but still nowhere near being potent enough to handle anything or pose a threat to anything. The heroes gain nothing and are also equally toothless, aside from the arrow of ultimate whif from the Venator, they flap about doing maybe 1 wound here or there.

I think it is great fun to play though, and is surely cool against some matchups, but will die to a stiff breeze against ranged potential and has no business ever picking a fight with any dedicated combat unit.

[Marcvs]

just saw the new Better Part of Valour (chumphammer on twitter) and it's battlelines only to grab and control objectives (plus needs a move, so no dropping libs there with scions). That's a little depressing

[Charlo]

2 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

The Vanguard Chamber build...anything you'd do differently below re: hero/artefact/mount trait selection?

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Lord-Aquilor (170)
- General
- Command Trait: Deathly Aura
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Mount Trait: Wind Runner
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Mystic Light (Artefact): Lantern of the Tempest
Knight-Venator (110)
- Artefact: Luckstone
Knight-Venator (110)
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (100)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (170)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (170)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
3 x Aetherwings (40)
Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber (130)
Vanguard Angelos Conclave (150)
Vanguard Justicar Conclave (120)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Wounds: 103

It looks so damn fun! Very much a hit and run game.

The only thing I'd suggest would be a Spellshield on someone, so you have at least an attempt to deny something big.

[Maturin]

12 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

just saw the new Better Part of Valour (chumphammer on twitter) and it's battlelines only to grab and control objectives (plus needs a move, so no dropping libs there with scions). That's a little depressing

This battleplan is not using the regular rules for controling objos. So we can assume normal rules will allow us to DS libs

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

I hope the mission Total Commitment has been modified to not hurt armies relying on reserves too much. It basically negates almost the entire stormcast(and also the poor nighthaunt) allegiance abilities. 

The mission might have had purpose during 2018 summer by keeping new  SCE in check through penalties.

Nowadays SCE suffers even with their allegiance abilties, let alone when these bonuses are negated. I always feel unjustly penalised whenever I see Total Commitment.

I would have been totally convinced of its existence, had there been missions where armies relying on magic, summoning, fighting twice or fighting first were equally penalised. But no. The worst offenders of the meta suffer none of these penalties which SCE players always have to remind of.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[LordPrometheus]

I'm pretty much leaving my SCE on the shelf until we get a new tome, which sucks, because I absolutely LOVE them. All this new stuff is completely pointless for us to fight against. We don't have the tools to beat any of the top meta armies anymore. Like @jhamslam said, we had one counter to a certain playstyle, and now that's gotten countered. 

Time to pray to the GW gods for a good update soon. ****** the SCE "haters", if they really even exist anymore. I can't think of another army that's this irrelevant and underpowered.

Edited July 10, 2020 by LordPrometheus

[PJetski]

My Anvilstrike list probably cant compete with the 2020 power creep armies any more, even with ~100 points extra from this newest GHB. It was already struggling to maintain board presence against armies like Fyreslayers and Idoneth, but now with COS/Seraphon/KO/Tzeentch there are other potent shooting armies in the mix.

Seraphon in particular are a hard counter, being able to teleport long range shooting units with Starborne, or reducing Longstrike damage to 1 with Coalesced, and reliably casting spells from outside Incantor void scroll range.

I'm not sure how to pivot the list to make it more effective. Maybe we need to swap the Longstrikes for 20x Judicator to give them more defense against mortal wounds.

Edited July 10, 2020 by PJetski

[Maturin]

49 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I'm not sure how to pivot the list to make it more effective. Maybe we need to swap the Longstrikes for 20x Judicator to give them more defense against mortal wounds.

20 judicators when  buffed by a relictor with bless weapons are very powerful.

[PJetski]

The problem with Judicators before were:

• You are less reliably doing damage because of their lower accuracy
• No mortal wounds on hit6
• Lower rend makes a big difference in sniping 2+/3+ monsters
• More bodies makes the unit difficult to pivot and move, more reliant on translocate
• Cant control aetherwings, but aetherwings are still necessary for this kind of castle playstyle. Bringing Hurricanes/Longstrikes alongside Judicators results in leaning too heavily in shooting
• You will want a 2nd priest for Bless Weapons but you dont have the points for it

Maybe with the point changes these problems are alleviated?

[jhamslam]

3 minutes ago, PJetski said:

The problem with Judicators before were:

• You are less reliably doing damage because of their lower accuracy
• No mortal wounds on hit6
• Lower rend makes a big difference in sniping 2+/3+ monsters
• More bodies makes the unit difficult to pivot and move, more reliant on translocate
• Cant control aetherwings, but aetherwings are still necessary for this kind of castle playstyle. Bringing Hurricanes/Longstrikes alongside Judicators results in leaning too heavily in shooting
• You will want a 2nd priest for Bless Weapons but you dont have the points for it

Maybe with the point changes these problems are alleviated?

Honestly LRL is the big conundrum. Seraphons 1 up bastiladons and salamander BS aside, howre you supposed to hit lumineth - -1 to hit, Eltharion halving all damage with an ethereal 3+ save, giving all lumineth 10 bravery , its so dumb. Hes basically an uber vandus hammerhand at 220 with the same number of wounds too.

 

Which is why i thought of a return to Gav bombs. with Judis being cheaper, they form most of our battleline to clear screens, slann ally to get CP and d3 mortal wound comet screens. Then Gav with evocators or even decimators?

Edited July 10, 2020 by jhamslam

[Maturin]

Just now, jhamslam said:

Honestly LRL is the big conundrum. Seraphons 1 up bastiladons and salamander BS aside, howre you supposed to hit lumineth - -1 to hit, Eltharion halving all damage with an ethereal 3+ save, giving all lumineth 10 bravery , its so dumb. Hes basically an uber vandus hammerhand at 220 with the same number of wounds too

Saturation.

[jhamslam]

1 minute ago, Maturin said:

Saturation.

I guess. Lumineth archers are really something tho, if Judicators had MW on 6s theyd be so much better.

[PJetski]

3 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

Which is why i thought of a return to Gav bombs. with Judis being cheaper, they form most of our battleline to clear screens, slann ally to get CP and d3 mortal wound comet screens. Then Gav with evocators or even decimators?

As long as Stormcast can't fight first or punch through hearthguard/mortek walls then a deep strike charge list will just not be good enough.

Edited July 10, 2020 by PJetski

[Maturin]

14 minutes ago, PJetski said:

The problem with Judicators before were:

• You are less reliably doing damage because of their lower accuracy
• No mortal wounds on hit6
• Lower rend makes a big difference in sniping 2+/3+ monsters
• More bodies makes the unit difficult to pivot and move, more reliant on translocate
• Cant control aetherwings, but aetherwings are still necessary for this kind of castle playstyle. Bringing Hurricanes/Longstrikes alongside Judicators results in leaning too heavily in shooting
• You will want a 2nd priest for Bless Weapons but you dont have the points for it

Maybe with the point changes these problems are alleviated?

- Can't do Hurricanum lists anymore, only solution is Tauralon. But if a Battalion is taken, it mades the use of reroll CA possible.
- True, but exploding D2 dices (1 6to hit = 2 dice D2).
- Indeed, but raptors had the same conundrum between two variants. I like saturation fire.
- True, especially for the xbows, that's why Skyborne Salyers/warrior Brotherhood is relevant, to block the opponent in his deployment zone.
- True, no solution there. Aetherwings can be taken but not the same value/abilities.
- Unless you drop with skyborne slyers for a small alpha, that could if protected by protectors withstand until the big T2 comes (relictor prayer).

I'ver never played any Ossiarch player, so I don't know the pain!

Edited July 10, 2020 by Maturin

[jhamslam]

1 minute ago, PJetski said:

As long as Stormcast can't fight first or punch through hearthguard/mortek walls then a deep strike charge list will just not be good enough.

I mean i guess we cant have an all corners list. Against a tzeentch flamer or Seraphon shooter list, Gav bombs might be the way to go. 

Mortek Guard are another problem entirely tho, SCE dream levels of resilience. Maybe ally in 20 lumineth archers, scourgerunner chariots perhaps?

[Maturin]

11 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

I mean i guess we cant have an all corners list. Against a tzeentch flamer or Seraphon shooter list, Gav bombs might be the way to go. 

Mortek Guard are another problem entirely tho, SCE dream levels of resilience. Maybe ally in 20 lumineth archers, scourgerunner chariots perhaps?

Maybe we need to ally Phoenix guards.

[Turragor]

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

My Anvilstrike list probably cant compete with the 2020 power creep armies any more, even with ~100 points extra from this newest GHB. It was already struggling to maintain board presence against armies like Fyreslayers and Idoneth, but now with COS and Tzeentch there are other potent shooting armies in the mix.

Seraphon in particular are a hard counter, being able to teleport long range shooting units with Starborne, or reducing Longstrike damage to 1 with Coalesced, and reliably casting spells from outside Incantor void scroll range.

I'm not sure how to pivot the list to make it more effective. Maybe we need to swap the Longstrikes for 20x Judicator to give them more defense against mortal wounds.

I feel roughly the same with Starcast, luckily Im kind of excited for 40k and will fix an army there over the next few months. By the time that's done I think there'll be news on the SC front tbh.

I think grasping at synergies that are shadows of the 2020 tomes offerings,  and crunching points cost reduced numbers is just, kind of, standard at the end of a tome cycle. They could make 3x5 libs free and I think the meta would still be a challenging jungle.