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AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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2 minutes ago, Qaz said:

Umm. Technically Endless model count "as a friendly model by all armies for any other rules purposes" (pg 53 Malign Sorcery). 

So if anything, the Celestian Vortex does no damage at all since it is everyone's friend and has no enemies. :D

 Ye, I can see how  this coming from :P 

 

..But still, why THIS one states ''ENEMY' units  while 19 others don't...?  :/ 

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21 minutes ago, ledha said:

Personnaly, not that much

I have close to 4000 pts of stormcast, most of which were nerfed (part of because of the new rules with wholly within and so on, i know) and i feel like making a half-competitive list without sacrosanct units is just shooting myself in the foot.

Why take liberators when sequitors exist ? Why taking paladins when evocators are better than them in every way ? Why taking any battalion while cleansing phalanx is way better ?

When i look at my old list (with 20 paladins), my mind scream "just dump them and take evocators man!" 

Sure, some "old units" became better (like the azyros), but the celestant on foot for example is a shadow of what he was, and the growing importance of spellcaster mean that we can't do like before, having close to zero dispell, but being able to go trough anyway.

 

 

So true, all of the points.

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1 minute ago, Aydwen said:

 Ye, I can see how  this coming from :P 

 

..But still, why THIS one states ''ENEMY' units  while 19 others don't...?  :/ 

I'm gonna say oversight. Let's shoot a question to GW and in the meantime, pretend it says UNITS.

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49 minutes ago, ledha said:

Personnaly, not that much

I have close to 4000 pts of stormcast, most of which were nerfed (part of because of the new rules with wholly within and so on, i know) and i feel like making a half-competitive list without sacrosanct units is just shooting myself in the foot.

Why take liberators when sequitors exist ? Why taking paladins when evocators are better than them in every way ? Why taking any battalion while cleansing phalanx is way better ?

When i look at my old list (with 20 paladins), my mind scream "just dump them and take evocators man!" 

Sure, some "old units" became better (like the azyros), but the celestant on foot for example is a shadow of what he was, and the growing importance of spellcaster mean that we can't do like before, having close to zero dispell, but being able to go trough anyway.

 

 

Just because you banked on already-weak units (that should have been buffed but sadly didn't) like Paladins you shouldn't give people such a sweeping bad opinion of the battletome. I invested in Vanguard units quite a bit (not thousands of points though) and they got buffed ti the point of being interesting (even if still suboptimal).

If they asked me, I would say I'm generally pretty happy. My old units are better and the new ones are awesome.

19 minutes ago, Namelessone81 said:

LCoSD or LAoT ? 

I think the Arkanum has more synergies in the current state of the army , but still I can’t decide...

i want a big unit in my army :) 

Why not Drakesworn+LaoTauralon? They make a good, synergistic tandem and cost only 800 points :D

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31 minutes ago, Namelessone81 said:

LCoSD or LAoT ? 

I think the Arkanum has more synergies in the current state of the army , but still I can’t decide...

i want a big unit in my army :) 

I guess the choice is related to what the rest of the list looks like a) and b) They have entirely different roles, at least  in my books.

LAoT is a more of ''all around-er'' model- he's a caster, buffs shooters in your army if fly overs something, and he can hunt small units/enemy 5wound heroes. Preferably isolated ones. He can tank in a bit,but only with Mystic Shield up.

LCoSD is our tried, tested, and reliable Behemoth/Hero. I have face-tank countless 40man Skeletons, 30man Vulkites, Skaven hordes - to name a few. And wiped them out eventually. Stardrake also, has the famous ability(shooting) of putting pressure in  5wound enemy Heroes  on the board-no range, no line of sight, no questions asked. 

 

All that being said, there is a good pts difference there. They are not ''identical'' pieces,  in any way. The ''seem'' identical, they aren't.

 

But hey, why don't you try both in a list..??  Huge pts investment , but you gonna have your own conclusions.

Edited by Aydwen
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6 minutes ago, Aydwen said:

I guess the choice is related to what the rest of the list looks like a) and b) They have entirely different roles, at least  in my books.

LAoT is a more of ''all around-er'' model- he's a caster, buffs shooters in your army if fly overs something, and he can hunt small units/enemy 5wound heroes. Preferably isolated ones. He can tank in a bit,but only with Mystic Shield up.

LCoSD is our tried, tested, and reliable Behemoth/Hero. I have face-tank countless 40man Skeletons, 30man Vulkites, Skaven hordes - to name a few. And wiped them out eventually. Stardrake also, has the famous ability(shooting) of putting pressure in every 5wound enemy Hero model on the board-no range, no line of sight, no questions asked. 

 

All that being said, there is a good pts difference there. They are not ''identical'' pieces,  in any way. The ''seem'' identical, they aren't.

 

But hey, why don't you try both in a list..??  Huge pts investment , but you gonna have your own conclusions.

Yeah I think I will buy them both eventually ... but I think I ll start with the arkanum cause I like to see him how he will perform :) as you said the Star drake is well known by now so he is a solid buy but the 120€ are a lot too :) 

 

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I love the new book.

@ People saying the LC is weak... have you considered that he's a low priority target that benefits from Look Out Sir and that he can use his command ability more than once?

Although Retributors lost their 6+ hit mechanic, +1 hit is still very good and there are still lots of powerful abilities that work off hit6+ like the Sword of Judgement that does D6 mortal wounds to a HERO/MONSTER on hit6+.

I'm disappointed that the LC is strictly a support hero, but at least he's good at what he does :P

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4 minutes ago, J0nathanc said:

In a 2k list in order to snipe supporting characters would you run 3 ballista and ordinator or 6 longbow raptors

Well, for starters the Raptors are 80 points cheaper. And they would be brutal with Anvils CA.

But both options have their merit.

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3 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I love the new book.

@ People saying the LC is weak... have you considered that he's a low priority target that benefits from Look Out Sir and that he can use his command ability more than once?

Although Retributors lost their 6+ hit mechanic, +1 hit is still very good and there are still lots of powerful abilities that work off hit6+ like the Sword of Judgement that does D6 mortal wounds to a HERO/MONSTER on hit6+.

I'm disappointed that the LC is strictly a support hero, but at least he's good at what he does :P

I do too!

@ but the Celestant got double nerfed. +1 to hit has lost its synergy with almost everything. It's useful, but a los less special. And he must get into combat, which will happen only if you drop him with Scions and get lucky/invest on the charge, or in you defensive line when the enemy comes for you/your home objectives. 

Sadly, he is objectively worse.

One thing I mourn is the lack of incentives to play a foot-slogging heavy infantry army a-la old Knights Excelsior Exemplar Chamber. They could have used the KE Stormhost rules for that, but instead gave us the most craptacular combination of special rules the world has ever witnessed (sorry for the unchecked hyperbole ?

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3 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

One thing I mourn is the lack of incentives to play a foot-slogging heavy infantry army a-la old Knights Excelsior Exemplar Chamber. They could have used the KE Stormhost rules for that, but instead gave us the most craptacular combination of special rules the world has ever witnessed (sorry for the unchecked hyperbole ?

You can still do a Warrior Brotherhood

If you want a good footslogging army you should try the Astral Templars - a 6" move after deployment for most (all?) of your army is quite strong on units that only move 4-6" normally. Add in a couple Heraldors to let you run & charge key units, command point to run6, drop a Vexillor into play to reroll charges... you can turn start getting some turn 1 charges with Paladins ?

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In before it gets FAQ'd out...

Anvils of the Alphastrike

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura 
- Artefact: Soulthief 
- Mount Trait: Savage Loyalty

Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (720)

Total: 1240 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 15
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 61
 

Deploy Aquilor and Longstrikes somewhere out of line of sight/far away if going second

Turn 1 -  redeploy with Aquilor ability then heroes of another age up to 15 times with the longstrikes. 

On average that's 60 mortal wounds and 80 -2 rend 2 damage wounds.

As you're using the shots in batches of 12, it should be pretty straightforward to shoot of any LoS granting chaff first before concentrating on bigger things. 
 

I know it has some counters, but it if you can't passively debuff the shooting, it'll be minus fun to play against!

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2 hours ago, ledha said:

Personnaly, not that much

I have close to 4000 pts of stormcast, most of which were nerfed (part of because of the new rules with wholly within and so on, i know) and i feel like making a half-competitive list without sacrosanct units is just shooting myself in the foot.

Why take liberators when sequitors exist ? Why taking paladins when evocators are better than them in every way ? Why taking any battalion while cleansing phalanx is way better ?

When i look at my old list (with 20 paladins), my mind scream "just dump them and take evocators man!" 

Sure, some "old units" became better (like the azyros), but the celestant on foot for example is a shadow of what he was, and the growing importance of spellcaster mean that we can't do like before, having close to zero dispell, but being able to go trough anyway.

 

 

Same here.  (except about 3K) .

Super disappointed by the nerfing of paladins, they weren't that good before but now even worse.  LCoF is a bummer.  Etc.  

Happy some of my units are now better (looking at you Celestant Prime)  but overall the book was very disappointing.  

Also did they need to mention the flaw in reforging almost every page in the lore section.   Geez, we get it. 

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5 minutes ago, AdamR said:

In before it gets FAQ'd out...

Anvils of the Alphastrike

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura 
- Artefact: Soulthief 
- Mount Trait: Savage Loyalty

Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (720)

Total: 1240 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 15
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 61
 

Deploy Aquilor and Longstrikes somewhere out of line of sight/far away if going second

Turn 1 -  redeploy with Aquilor ability then heroes of another age up to 15 times with the longstrikes. 

On average that's 60 mortal wounds and 80 -2 rend 2 damage wounds.

As you're using the shots in batches of 12, it should be pretty straightforward to shoot of any LoS granting chaff first before concentrating on bigger things. 
 

I know it has some counters, but it if you can't passively debuff the shooting, it'll be minus fun to play against!

I don't think GW need more evidence that some command ability wording prob needs a look after the 6 nations so you'd just be mean using this list!

Just now, chord said:

overall the book was very disappointing.  

Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, I think you're a bunch of Russian trolls sent by Putin to disrupt the fun! (Kidding ofc ;D)

Edited by Turragor
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12 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You can still do a Warrior Brotherhood

If you want a good footslogging army you should try the Astral Templars - a 6" move after deployment for most (all?) of your army is quite strong on units that only move 4-6" normally. Add in a couple Heraldors to let you run & charge key units, command point to run6, drop a Vexillor into play to reroll charges... you can turn start getting some turn 1 charges with Paladins ?

That's nice! The problem is not only speed, but also resilience. Paladins die like flores for their price.

12 minutes ago, Turragor said:

I've seen this a few times and I must warn all, some things are going to get nerfed.

Evocators will potentially get nerfed hard.

What about buffing Paladins, instead? Seriously, Evocators are right as they are. It's just that the competition is awful. That's the message we must send to GW.

4 minutes ago, AdamR said:

In before it gets FAQ'd out...

Anvils of the Alphastrike

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura 
- Artefact: Soulthief 
- Mount Trait: Savage Loyalty

Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (720)

Total: 1240 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 15
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 61
 

Deploy Aquilor and Longstrikes somewhere out of line of sight/far away if going second

Turn 1 -  redeploy with Aquilor ability then heroes of another age up to 15 times with the longstrikes. 

On average that's 60 mortal wounds and 80 -2 rend 2 damage wounds.

As you're using the shots in batches of 12, it should be pretty straightforward to shoot of any LoS granting chaff first before concentrating on bigger things. 
 

I know it has some counters, but it if you can't passively debuff the shooting, it'll be minus fun to play against!

That's why we can't have nice things! ?? Please do not force It so much that GW will notice. 

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2 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, I think you're a bunch of Russian trolls sent by Putin to disrupt the fun! (Kidding ofc ;D)

Not everything GW does is great, and not everything they do is terrible.  

Weakening older units to sell new units is fine, it's a business.  But is also disappointing to those who supported the line previously. 

Strengthing units that didn't get much play is great as well (Vanguard, CP, etc) 

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18 minutes ago, AdamR said:

In before it gets FAQ'd out...

Anvils of the Alphastrike

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Aquilor (200)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura 
- Artefact: Soulthief 
- Mount Trait: Savage Loyalty

Battleline
5 x Vanguard-Hunters (120)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Shock Handaxes
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
12 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (720)

Total: 1240 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 15
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 61
 

Deploy Aquilor and Longstrikes somewhere out of line of sight/far away if going second

Turn 1 -  redeploy with Aquilor ability then heroes of another age up to 15 times with the longstrikes. 

On average that's 60 mortal wounds and 80 -2 rend 2 damage wounds.

As you're using the shots in batches of 12, it should be pretty straightforward to shoot of any LoS granting chaff first before concentrating on bigger things. 
 

I know it has some counters, but it if you can't passively debuff the shooting, it'll be minus fun to play against!

Unless it's changed doesnt the Aquilor redeploy mean you appear in the movement phase and thus you couldn't then shoot with the raptors using the command ability. 

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You're right!

So that makes it a bit less horrible as at least you can deploy against it!

 

EDIT - I was going to suggest 2 vexillors but they've been changed to the Movement phase now.  Maybe risk a Relictor with translocation?although you'd still need to keep them in range for the command ability. 2 more CP though!

 

Edited by AdamR
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16 minutes ago, chord said:

Not everything GW does is great, and not everything they do is terrible.  

Weakening older units to sell new units is fine, it's a business.  But is also disappointing to those who supported the line previously. 

Strengthing units that didn't get much play is great as well (Vanguard, CP, etc) 

Overall I think more old units got buffed than weakened.  Concussions (relatively because of the fulmi shooting nerf), most of vanguard, knight azyros, knight vexillor, lord veritant, knight heraldor, celestant prime, and more all got buffs.  Liberators, fulminators, Lord relictor, Lord celestant on foot...I think that's all that lost out.  Of the new units, only sequitors stand out as outright better than their forebears.  

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18 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

What are current opinions on Sureheart vs. Vexillor to boost charges for Scions units? I was leaning towards the Vexillor but the extra 20 pts makes me pause.

Sureheart is strictly better, since +3 is worth much more than reroll. However, command points have a significant opportunity cost.

You can use Surehearts ability multiple times. If you use it 3 times for +9" charge you have a guaranteed charge out of Scions.

...assuming your army has the HAMMERS OF SIGMAR keyword :P

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