Maturin Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 It's good that the Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber can now be played under 2000. But the real problem is that not only does it happen 2 years later after the BT has been published, but that it's also the only big format one to be available. There should be in all BT, several battalions that can be played at a 2000 points limits, since it's the official one used in tourneys, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borsuk Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 5 hours ago, scrubyandwells said: Many of us have dreamed of this day... Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber (130) - Lord Aquilor (170) - Knight Azyros (100) - Knight Venator (110) - Knight Venator (110) Vanguard Angelos Conclave (150) - Vanguard Hunters (100) - Vanguard Hunters (100) - Vanguard Hunters (100) - Vanguard Palladors (170) Vanguard Justicar Conclave (120) - Vanguard Longstrikes (170) - Vanguard Longstrikes (170) - Vanguard Longstrikes (170) - Aetherwings (40) - Aetherwings (40) - Aetherwings (40) 1990/2000 | 1 drop | 3CP | Anvils I ordered missing vanguards already. This is how I’m going to get rid off Tzeentch. Sigmar be praised. I don’t even feel like having new tome at the moment. Vanguards are usable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borsuk Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Maturin said: It's good that the Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber can now be played under 2000. But the real problem is that not only does it happen 2 years later after the BT has been published, but that it's also the only big format one to be available. There should be in all BT, several battalions that can be played at a 2000 points limits, since it's the official one used in tourneys, I couldn’t agree more, maybe it will be changed with new tome (someday when it is released), let’s just be happy with this little spark of joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, Borsuk said: I couldn’t agree more, maybe it will be changed with new tome (someday when it is released), let’s just be happy with this little spark of joy. "Little spark of joy". That's the problem. Collectively our position as players can be metaphorically seen as an abusive relationship or a stockholm syndrome at best. GW produces magnificient models. That's true. But when it comes to the games they sell, they regularily abuse us, by constantly changing parameters, most of the time for bad. They just did it by removing Malign Sorceries artifacts for instance. It used to make us able to use outdated battalions and warscrolls, even against armies who beneficiated from the Power creep. And now Poof gone. So we have to enjoy, as you say "those little positive moments" we have, otherwise, we'll end up not playing anymore, selling everything we have or worse, burning all of our collection like the guy who burned his whole Dark Elf army when WFB was destroyed. Sometimes I think it would be better if people massively stopped playing/buying. But this hobby is an addiction, so despite the constant slaps, we're still here. It's a shame. I really wish GW would hire people playing in tournaments (if they didn't) or hire people with a sound mind who speak said mind. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borsuk Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 @Maturin it’s sad cuz you’re right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubyandwells Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 hours ago, The World Tree said: As a Vanguard fan, I like it. Having played it in 2500 pint lists I know it is jut obnoxious. Yeah, I just suspect there's a sizable difference between Vanguard Chamber at 2K vs 2.5K, mainly since at 2.5K, you have room to make one of the Longstrikes a 1x9, whereas in 2K, you're capped at 3x3. I could be wrong, though. Another potential issue, as someone mentioned to me on Twitter: if we're losing Aetherquartz Brooch, then that will really affect this build, given how hungry it is for CP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said: Another potential issue, as someone mentioned to me on Twitter: if we're losing Aetherquartz Brooch, then that will really affect this build, given how hungry it is for CP. I mean if you get your longstrikes off, and your dice don’t hate you , you probably crippled your opponent anyway so I kinda feels thats Ok without the AqB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 hour ago, schwabbele said: I mean if you get your longstrikes off, and your dice don’t hate you , you probably crippled your opponent anyway so I kinda feels thats Ok without the AqB. If your opponent deploys within distance (at least in the first hero phase) then more fool them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 47 minutes ago, The World Tree said: If your opponent deploys within distance (at least in the first hero phase) then more fool them Also banking on those longstrikes not just exploding to artellery or super casters if they do not manage to pick them of. I see KO list just deploy in a corner, then fly high and blow up the squishy longstrikes, when all the hitting power of a list relies on 3 x 6 wound units, that will end poorly quick. The idea of the list is cool and it should simply be way cheaper to do this, so you could get the +1 attack on hunters and paladors and have them be a threat for real. If this list was 1 battalion for the +1 and with 300 ish points to beef up longstrikes, get more paladors etc then it would have real legs to stand on, now it is just banking way too much on too few wounds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Mimimimimimimi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 27 minutes ago, schwabbele said: Mimimimimimimi ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milano Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I‘ve seen a lot of SCE pity and bitterness the last few months (including myself 😄)..and I know its just 10pts less mostly, but I really appreciate the extra possibilities now. Several of my lists feel finally „complete“. Without having to make painful cuts. I haven’t really used ext. Artefacts eitherway to much. Feels like a new playground untill we get back to demigod status (new BT) as we should be lorewise ☺️ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thostos Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 17 hours ago, scrubyandwells said: Many of us have dreamed of this day... Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber (130) - Lord Aquilor (170) - Knight Azyros (100) - Knight Venator (110) - Knight Venator (110) Vanguard Angelos Conclave (150) - Vanguard Hunters (100) - Vanguard Hunters (100) - Vanguard Hunters (100) - Vanguard Palladors (170) Vanguard Justicar Conclave (120) - Vanguard Longstrikes (170) - Vanguard Longstrikes (170) - Vanguard Longstrikes (170) - Aetherwings (40) - Aetherwings (40) - Aetherwings (40) 1990/2000 | 1 drop | 3CP | Anvils Been playing this since the start of 2nd edition,,though you have to use Hurricanes instead of Longstrikes and I use a Knight Zephros instead of an extra Venator.I only played 3 games with it in my group but won all 3,,rather easily even.Retired the army at the time though since Moonclan came out and I switched to them.The thing is,,once players know to shoot the Aetherwings off as soon as they can,,the army gets picked off pretty easily..also getting double turned is a deathnell,,you just dont have the wounds to deal with that.However single drop allows you to make your opponent go first so that helps alot,,just start with your onboard stuff hiding on board edges and out of sight if they have shooting. I know most prefer the Longstrikes,but im here to say that Hurricanes with 10 shots per model, and rr 1s to hit,wreck most anything you point them at..as long as there is at least one bird alive,you usually can cockblock a charge on them too,,then use the Auquilor to port them to safety when ya can. Its a very fragile build and rather nailbiting to play with,but now that it looks like I have around 110 pts to play with,ill probably throw it down in the near future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borsuk Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 7 hours ago, Milano said: I‘ve seen a lot of SCE pity and bitterness the last few months (including myself 😄)..and I know its just 10pts less mostly, but I really appreciate the extra possibilities now. Several of my lists feel finally „complete“. Without having to make painful cuts. I haven’t really used ext. Artefacts eitherway to much. Feels like a new playground untill we get back to demigod status (new BT) as we should be lorewise ☺️ I feel you. I know that new tome would be better, but I’ll take what I got. I totally agree with list “completing” part. Maybe our warscrolls are not up to the date, but at least I feel like I can have some fun once again. I know that we’re being sacrificed on GW money altar, but right now I’m feeling like I have something for exchange. It can’t be always so bad, it age of SIGMAR after all. 1 hour ago, Thostos said: Been playing this since the start of 2nd edition,,though you have to use Hurricanes instead of Longstrikes and I use a Knight Zephros instead of an extra Venator.I only played 3 games with it in my group but won all 3,,rather easily even.Retired the army at the time though since Moonclan came out and I switched to them.The thing is,,once players know to shoot the Aetherwings off as soon as they can,,the army gets picked off pretty easily..also getting double turned is a deathnell,,you just dont have the wounds to deal with that.However single drop allows you to make your opponent go first so that helps alot,,just start with your onboard stuff hiding on board edges and out of sight if they have shooting. I know most prefer the Longstrikes,but im here to say that Hurricanes with 10 shots per model, and rr 1s to hit,wreck most anything you point them at..as long as there is at least one bird alive,you usually can cockblock a charge on them too,,then use the Auquilor to port them to safety when ya can. Its a very fragile build and rather nailbiting to play with,but now that it looks like I have around 110 pts to play with,ill probably throw it down in the near future. I was thinking about hurricanes for some time. Volume of shots are something to be reckoned with, and we still have around 100 point to do something with them. List with either raptors looks awesome and fun to play, but I guess it is fragile and kind of one trick pony. I will give it a try nevertheless. It’s just a game, isn’t it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Anvils 20 Judicators 5 Judicators 5 Judicators 3 Longstrikes 3 Longstrikes Relictor Incantor Azyros 12 units of Aetherwings 1980 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, PJetski said: Anvils I would switch 2 Judis to libs and take a comet instead. The comet potentially softens up some juicy targets which your longstrike can clean of the board and the judi blob can be used to delete anything you like instead. That severly ****** with your opponents mind. Edited July 5, 2020 by schwabbele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 We don't even need MW that much anymore : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 One of the numerous thing that I liked about WFB was the armour save you could take, then followed up by the magical or whatever save. It makes sense. First layer of protection defeated, well, you've got another one. I found that in AOS and I was particularily glad about it. Now they just went full 40K. Except for the models who are incredible for those made for AOS, it makes me wonder what's the point of not playing 40k again, since the system have more and more in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juicy Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 no need to panic you can just do 1 after save but cant stack that to 2 after saves. This isnt really a problem for us like it is a problem for skaven/death and mayb nurgle 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Juicy said: no need to panic you can just do 1 after save but cant stack that to 2 after saves. This isnt really a problem for us like it is a problem for skaven/death and mayb nurgle Are you sure about that ? I'm not a native speaker but the way it's worded seems to say : You got 1 roll of dice with reroll allowed (like Sigmarite shields) but that's it. If you roll with your armour save you can't use another one. Unless armour saves are not an ability and then you have still normal save + 1 ability. Edited July 5, 2020 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStreicher Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) On 7/2/2020 at 11:11 PM, Borsuk said: Yeah. We are the storm incarnate, we will strike with all our might and inflict one wound Ardboys Hit harder and have the same save 🤣 @Maturin Juicy is right Edited July 5, 2020 by JackStreicher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JackStreicher said: @Maturin Juicy is right Ok, cheers. I'm not really happy for Nurgle players tbh. Edited July 5, 2020 by Maturin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turragor Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Maturin said: Are you sure about that ? I'm not a native speaker but the way it's worded seems to say : You got 1 roll of dice with reroll allowed (like Sigmarite shields) but that's it. If you roll with your armour save you can't use another one. Unless armour saves are not an ability and then you have still normal save + 1 ability. To clarify, that new rule is referring to negating wounds allocated - allocation of wounds comes after failed armour saves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Turragor said: To clarify, that new rule is referring to negating wounds allocated - allocation of wounds comes after failed armour saves. I understand now. Thanks. I stil want to rage against GW and their changes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubyandwells Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Looked at my 2019 Nashcon list and how its combined arms style might be updated with new points...here's a first pass. Prior (Anvils, 1990/2000, 105W): Celestant Prime (340) Relictor (100) Azyros (100) Incantor (140) 5 Liberators (100) 5 Liberators (100) 5 Judicators (160) 5 Hunters (110) 6 Longstrikes (340) 3 Kurnoth Swords (200) 3 Kurnoth Swords (200) Everblaze Comet (100) Updated (Anvils, 2000/2000, 135W): Celestant Prime (300) Relictor (100) Azyros (100) Incantor (120) 5 Liberators (90) 5 Liberators (90) 5 Liberators (90) 10 Sequitors (240) 10 Sequitors (240) 9 Castigators (210) 6 Longstrikes (340) 3 Aetherwings (40) 3 Aetherwings (40) Some thoughts: 1. In a magic meta, may be necessary to have a second Incantor/auto unbind. Might require dropping the Relictor, which isn't ideal, since the potential Translocation pairs well with Castigators/Longstrikes. 2. Prime is almost always in, regardless of efficiency/points. He's just a perennial fave. I think he has good value in an SCE toolbox build, though, especially now at 300. It's just a little frustrating what you can do with him outside of our book, in CoS Hammerhal, where he becomes quite scary. 3. Azyros' RR 1's H can help mitigate Prime s---'ing the bed when he comes in and/or help improve shooting. 4. 2x10 Seqs replace 2x3 Kurnoth Swords...better utility/synergy at a similar price point. Might be better making one of them a 2x5. 5. Still unsure about Castigators but they look interesting now at 3 for 70. A unit of 9 offers another potential Anvils target while having a respectable # of bodies/wounds. 6. Tend to prefer spreading out power in units, so that's why 6 Strikes over 9 (+ it tends to be a less-rough experience...). Given the prevalence of ranged damage/MW splashing now, they may have to start off the board regularly. 7. Dropped Comet, as I suspect the odds of its ROI in a zero-casting-buff list are lesser now than last year, and it was hit or miss even then. 8. 2x3 Birds...best damn unit in the book, now with an extra discount. 9. May be necessary to buy an extra CP, particularly with LRL's "1 CP costs you 2" spell. Edited July 5, 2020 by scrubyandwells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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