AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Andrethegreat]

33 minutes ago, chord said:

You should share your strategy.  I'm always looking for new methods to leverage these units. maybe I'm missed something.

I would love to share my strategy at some point, that is my goal.  don't get me wrong, I do lose more games then I win, I guess because I'm new, and I'm still trying to figure out some things, when I do I will tell what my strategy is, but I will say this, some of my strategies I use come from the book called the Art War. I try to out maneuver my opponent, and attack what is weak and stay away from what is strong, So! far, just using that part of my strategy I manage to give people a hard time winning games and I have tied some games with my hunters. 

[CommissarRotke]

@Sleepa the only issue would obv be shooting, but that'd only hurt against KO. If you don't have 10x hunters then I'd say try this list out first to see in your league. Castellant makes both those units beefy and Arcanum gives the dispel

[rockmanko]

3 hours ago, Sleepa said:

*I'm moving my question to this thread, and asking the mods to delete the new thread I made. It seems like only the big topic threads in this forum get a lot of traction.

I recently joined an escalation league, to give myself a motivational push to get more of my SC painted by the end of the summer.

The way the league works is: At each point threshold, we are paired up and provided a pitched-battle mission. The league starts out at 750 points, and the first mission is "Knife to the Heart".

We are free to submit a completely different army for each round of the league, so I need not commit to expanding on my choices for the first round.

I'm asking for advice here, because I have literally no experience playing AOS games below 1000 points. 

The mission being "Knife to the heart" also complicates list-building for me, as a Stormcast player. Model-count is going to be a problem.

My first instinct was to draft up something like:

Lord Arcanum

Lord Relictor

5x Sequitors

5x Sequitors

5x Evocators

But I quickly realized that I'm going to need to keep a minimum of 5 models alive in order to hold either objective. So if I lose even one model from any squad contesting one of those objectives, I'm going to lose the option of that major victory.

My current draft is looking like this:

Lord Arcanum

Lord Castellant

10x Sequitors

10x Liberators

It's a dirt-simple list idea, but the plan is to sit the Libs and Castellant on my home objective, then deep strike the Arcanum and Sequitors (Depending on my opponent is on - I can make a new list for each round, but pairings are always blind to ensure no counter-play) to threaten their objective.

Looking for some serious feedback here. Feel free to tear apart my thought-process thus far, if you think I'm off-base.

I don't own really any Vanguard models, so no access to Aquilor, Hunters or Raptors.

Thanks in advance for the help, folks!

is ally allowed?

[Sleepa]

38 minutes ago, rockmanko said:

is ally allowed?

Oh yes, allies are allowed with all normal stipulations

 

[rockmanko]

3 hours ago, Sleepa said:

Oh yes, allies are allowed with all normal stipulations

 

then you might want to add a crew or two of Skinks

Its a pretty solid objective grabber / screening for SCE list

with only 70 points 10 man with good movement.

 

my 750 point suggestion:

Lord Arc

Lord Cast

Seq x5

Lib x5

Lib x5

Skinks x10

Skinks x10

 

or ... 740 with

Seq x5

Seq x5

Seq x5

Skinks x10

Edited March 4, 2020 by rockmanko

[Sleepa]

9 hours ago, rockmanko said:

then you might want to add a crew or two of Skinks

Its a pretty solid objective grabber / screening for SCE list

with only 70 points 10 man with good movement.

Thanks! Skinks are probably a great idea. I think I might wait until the new Seraphon book hits just to make sure their points/rules don't see drastic changes before I pick some up.

[PiotrW]

Hey guys, quick question!

Larissa Shadowstalker. Is she worth getting? Is she even legal? She's not on any GHB list or in the Warscroll Builder... So, can you use her special rules in Matched Play? What is her point cost, if so?

[Maturin]

1 minute ago, PiotrW said:

Hey guys, quick question!

Larissa Shadowstalker. Is she worth getting? Is she even legal? She's not on any GHB list or in the Warscroll Builder... So, can you use her special rules in Matched Play? What is her point cost, if so?

She is legal. I think she's 140 points. I don't think she's worth it.

[Mark Williams]

6 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

Hey guys, quick question!

Larissa Shadowstalker. Is she worth getting? Is she even legal? She's not on any GHB list or in the Warscroll Builder... So, can you use her special rules in Matched Play? What is her point cost, if so?

I would take her in small narrative games or in campaign games like Path to Glory (1k or less). For competitive Matched play, no probably not.

[Bozly]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:33 AM, jhamslam said:

im not a fan of the sequitors. id rather cut them for more cavalry or maybe a knight heraldor / azyros.

idk what his matchups were, but i cant see this list doing well against fyreslayers or slaanesh. Yes i know im being a dumb meta-head. Its a fun and solid list, just that  with my litmus test of "can it beat skaven, petrifex, HB or slaanesh", isnt looking too hot.

I see your point here. Its a really cool list but we dont punch that hard realistically. The desolators doing 40 damage to a 4+ save is only going to count for 10 dead hearthguard after their after saves and that if they dont re roll their saves. This list is cool but it lacks bodies and punching power. But to be fair a lot of sce lacks punching power

[PiotrW]

1 hour ago, Maturin said:

She is legal. I think she's 140 points. I don't think she's worth it.

 

1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

I would take her in small narrative games or in campaign games like Path to Glory (1k or less). For competitive Matched play, no probably not.

I see... Hm. And how do we know her point cost?

[Maturin]

8 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

 

I see... Hm. And how do we know her point cost?

My bad. No specific points for her now. But since she s a Knight Questor you could play her for 100points if your opponents fine with it. But she s not good honestly. She d need to have better rend to be reall effective against monsters. A 5 man protector unit is 180 points. If she had the same rule as them, giving -1 to shooting if she s in front on an allied unit, she d be moaaar useful, and still be 100points ofc.

[PiotrW]

Yeah, checking her stats she seems like someone who can wound a monster some good, but will usually end up getting killed once the monster has a chance of striking back... On the other hand, if you combined her with a Protector unit supporting her..?

Speaking of combinations: are Lord-Ordinators good? And would it make sense to field two of them - and combine them with two Ballistas and two Castigator units to have two Hailstorm Batteries?

[Bozly]

I have finally settled on my adepticon list and i’m excited. 
 

lord aquilor

lord relictor

spell weaver

battleline

libs

libs

libs

9 longstrikes

6x hurricanes

3 hurricanes

3x3 aetherwings

Justicar conclave

10 skinks

extra command point.

 

3 command points at the start of the game feels real good. I am worried it’ll struggle against tzeench and bone reapers as i dont have those in my meta to test against but i’m excited for it. 

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

5 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Yeah, checking her stats she seems like someone who can wound a monster some good, but will usually end up getting killed once the monster has a chance of striking back... On the other hand, if you combined her with a Protector unit supporting her..?

Speaking of combinations: are Lord-Ordinators good? And would it make sense to field two of them - and combine them with two Ballistas and two Castigator units to have two Hailstorm Batteries?

Stormcast warscroll battalions are generally terrible. Hailstorm Battery is no exception.

It is almost always better to take an additional or two ballistas for the cost of the battalion and the mandatory castigator unit.

The castigators especially are notorious for being useless in current Stormcast tome.

And bringing two lord ordinators is an excellent way to waste your points, in most cases. He is too expensive, and just one model is enough to buff your ballistas.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[CommissarRotke]

17 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Hey guys, quick question!

Larissa Shadowstalker. Is she worth getting? Is she even legal? She's not on any GHB list or in the Warscroll Builder... So, can you use her special rules in Matched Play? What is her point cost, if so?

I can take a picture of the warscroll that came in the box later today. She's not terrible but only casual matched worthy. Knight Questors are all 100pts.

[Bozly]

Ok briefcase is out, suit is on, courts in session i have to be a rules lawyer here. @jhamslam you have the most experience with this at tournaments so maybe you already know about this. Maybe this is common knowledge and i just didnt know i havent seen it any battle reports and i’m the only shootcast player in my meta

 

aetherwings say they move in the openents charge phase. Move being the keyword not a normal move

well i was watching an old heywoah video and he was talking about a move bcr got which is d6” move in the hero phase and how you can use it to retreat and it doesnt count as your normal move so you can charge later.
here’s the faq. Can we use that 2d6 move to get in combat with enemy units? And prevent them from charging that turn

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bozly

[Sleepa]

41 minutes ago, Bozly said:

aetherwings say they move in the openents charge phase. Move being the keyword not a normal move

here’s the faq. Can we use that 2d6 move to get in combat with enemy units? And prevent them from charging that turn

As I understand it, they can move within 3" of enemy units to deny the charge. Bonus if you can swing them around so your opponent has to pile-in AWAY from your Raptor unit.

[Bozly]

8 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

As I understand it, they can move within 3" of enemy units to deny the charge. Bonus if you can swing them around so your opponent has to pile-in AWAY from your Raptor unit.

Oh this is a game changer

[Hagbean]

Any good charge-oriented paladin lists?

Want to try and make use of Hammerstrike Force.

I've knocked a few lists up but can't really pin down what stormhost would be the best...

[Lucur]

I'd assume celestial vindicators for the +1A ct or hammers for Gavriel Surecharge. The issue with the latter is you want to charge from Scions setting up at the end of the movement phase and the battalion's ability triggers in the hero phase. It also won't be easy to keep Prosecutors alive and in position at the same time.

If it's the paladins you care for, skyborne slayers might be the better option, it even has an own thread

[Nozdormu]

14 hours ago, Hagbean said:

Any good charge-oriented paladin lists?

Want to try and make use of Hammerstrike Force.

I've knocked a few lists up but can't really pin down what stormhost would be the best...

Celestial Vindicators Skyborn Slayers batallion or Hammers of Sigmar with Gavriel Sureheart.

Generally Paladins aren't good so don't expect great results.

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

Looking at the new seraphon rules, I cannot help but feel SCE will dive further into low-tiers in the near future. The Coalesced Seraphon is a colossal middle finger against Anvils of Heldenhammer Vanguard-Raptors, since all Coalesced Seraphon models decrease the damage of enemy attacks by one.  The Vanguard-Raptors will struggle even more to earn their points back, and they weren't even dominating the podium. On the contrary despite being perhaps the most competitive SCE list, Anvils of Heldenhammer with Vanguard-Raptor belonged to the middling lists in most tournaments. 

What is more funny is that Coalesced Seraphon are not only more durable, but also are sporting more effective shooting attacks compared to SCE. Thunder Lizards, the Coalesced sub-faction that can take stegadons as battlelines(yup, another faction with behemoth battlelines while SCE are stuck at horrible liberators), also has double-shoot command ability like Anvils of the Heldenhammer. With Stegadons shooting 3 rend -1 3+/3+ damage 3 ballistas, and Bastiladons their 9-shot solar engine, I can confidently say Seraphon will win shooting war against Stormcast most of the time. 

Did I mention that each of their 3-wound salamanders cost 80pts with ablative 3 wounds from skinks handlers, and that their shooting attack is 4/3+/3+/-2/d3 damage? Oh, and on unmodified hit rolls of 6 their shooting attacks cause d3 mortal wounds. Granted, they do have short range of 12". However with Coalesced battle trait(reducing damage of incoming attack by 1) and additional wounds from the skinks, I think they can easily approach within 12" range and start blasting their enemies.

If previewing the new Seraphon battletome brought any consolation to me, it is that more people would stop thinking stormcast as "totally fine" or even "overpowered" as more factions receive excellent warscrolls and allegiance abilities like Seraphons did.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[Mark Williams]

While I agree that stormcast is in a bad place, anything that shuts down or counters anvilstrike is a good thing imo. The anvilstrike’s core strategy involves essentially removing any interactive play from opponents and creating an experience where your opponent just systematically removes their units one by one with very little engagement. I sincerely believe GW can’t be happy with that sort of gameplay persisting indefinitely in the game, and remaining a dominant strategy of sce armies. I don’t see anvilstrike living past the next book in its current form personally. I realise this post is going to get downvoted, but I seriously think anvilstrike lists are boring and one note for both you and your opponents, and bad for the game and the army. 

[Bozly]

So we once again have another stormcast on the podium at tomorrow burns 2. Now this tournament did feature several great players but also a lot of alcohol. That shouldnt discount andy’s win an anyway but just something to bear in mind. It looked like a very fun tourney.