Bozly Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/28/2020 at 4:02 AM, schwabbele said: Am I the only one who regrets taking gold as main color. I mean it looks good but it is just so boring to paint 😢 i recommend any of these guides to spice up your gold. Vince is awesome at this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bozly said: Are there any strong non shootcast lists out there currently? Ive been digging through some tournaments and it seems like its kind of tight not really. take it from me, SCE melee is in a baaad state. Best we can do is counter attack to keep things away from our shooters. We cant grind it in melee with Daughters, Fyreslayers, Slaanesh, or even Petrifex Elite (since theyre basically us but tougher). Not having fight first or fight twice stuff in the combat phase combined with no MW save (4+ or 5+) means your golden bois will just die 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 42 minutes ago, jhamslam said: not really. take it from me, SCE melee is in a baaad state. Best we can do is counter attack to keep things away from our shooters. We cant grind it in melee with Daughters, Fyreslayers, Slaanesh, or even Petrifex Elite (since theyre basically us but tougher). Not having fight first or fight twice stuff in the combat phase combined with no MW save (4+ or 5+) means your golden bois will just die Thats kinda what i expected. Theyre guaranteed a new book here soon so we’ll see some good stuff in the future hopefully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I just discovered that there are two Warscrolls for the Lord Ordinator. The one ordinary and then there ist Lord Ordinator Vorrus Starstrike, which let you shoot twice with a warmachine, which ist pretty nice. Ist this Warscroll still legit and up to Date? I could not find Vorrus within the Warscroll Builder either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, rosa said: Ist this Warscroll still legit and up to Date? Nope, it got replaced by the regukar one when the 2019 Sce BT got out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 16 hours ago, Bozly said: Are there any strong non shootcast lists out there currently? Ive been digging through some tournaments and it seems like its kind of tight Skyborne Slayers is where it's at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souleater Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) Yeah, when my SCE run I to Cities Greatswords who are hitting and wounding on 2s, or being i am being shot at by guys doing the same...it's hard not to feel we're behind the curve. 😄 Edited January 30, 2020 by Souleater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordPrometheus Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Souleater said: Yeah, when my SCE run I to Cities Greatswords who are hitting and wounding on 2s, or being i am being shot at by guys doing the same...it's hard bot to feel we're behind the curve. 😄 Yeah the Stormbois are supposed to be Sigmar's elite, but they get outclassed by freaking BONES and random NPCs from human cities... it's kind of embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 how can we be compared to SM when our stormbois can't even melee and don't have plot armour smh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 So i did some compiling of lists from cancon and lvo because i had way too much free time at work. Shoot casts lives in about 3 different forms i think we all know that. Its a sliding scale of more shooting and melee threat like evocators, celestant prime, and sequitors. Somewhere in the middle is jusicators. But they have the same goals and in general play the same then we get some interesting ****** there was a couple gavriel lists. They can catch out a weaker player but i personally dont like them but for those that do. Typically 10 to 20 evocators or lots of sequitors. One likes retributors. The one i’m personally going to try out Stormcast Celestial vindicators Arcanum dracoline Single minded fury, stormrage blade, azyrite, pride leader Castellant Heraldor 20 seq 10 seq 5 jud 5 jud 6 evo dracolines with grandstaffs This is a pretty interesting melee list with how it interacts between the lord arcanum. She can technically infinitely buff attacks on the mounts. Great list for local games but unfortunately it lacks in tournaments. For all you star drake boys living city seems to take the cake Living city Nomad- druid of everspring Battlemage cage of thorns adjunt Drakesworn templar Spear of the hunt Branchwych Battleline 30x eternal guard 5x sisters of the thorn 20x sisters of the watch 10x sequitors retinue 3x kurnoth greatswords Lifeswarm I really enjoy the package of this list with 3 solid threats between the hunters the stardrake and the sisters of the watch. The magic package keeps us competitive in every phase in addition to mobility and sustain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrayKing Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Hello all, I'm new to Stormcast and in the last post it talks about the 3 different forms of shootcast and was wondering if anyone could either explain the 3 forms or point me in the right direction for those forms. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, TheGrayKing said: Hello all, I'm new to Stormcast and in the last post it talks about the 3 different forms of shootcast and was wondering if anyone could either explain the 3 forms or point me in the right direction for those forms. Thank you Sure its pretty cool. The one that did the best and the one i’ve had the most games with is Meighank Jha’s list. I believe he played it a few days ago at lvo Anvils of helden hammer Knight incantor general: deathly aura. Spell thundershock knight incantor celestial blades knight heraldor Knight azyros Artifact: soul thief lord relictor translocation battleline 3x 5 liberators other 9 vanguard longstrikes 10 evocators 5 grandstaff 5 sword celestial blades 2x 3 aetherwings Geminids. personally i love this list because it plays on a two threat system. Being high drops isnt an issue because we threaten with the longstrikes turn one. And later push up the board with the evocators buffed by their sig spell and celestal blades. While we lack command points the heraldor does help them get into position. This is what i would consider a balanced shootcast list. It has melee threat, and still the 9 longstrikes as a ranged threat. Both are annoying to deal with and need dealt with. BUT all our shooting is one basket so is our melee. Libs are good screen but small coverage, we have good anti spell but not a lot. Very easy to tag the longstrike unit and its out of commission until we clean it up. So heres the sliding scale. If this is 5 what does more shooting look like. So we see lots of versions of this list. They could run a battalion that requires 3 units of vanguard hunters and 3 aetherwings. Aetherwings are the sleeper best utility unit in this list so more is always better. (If you take this battalion you do not need a knight azyros) Typically in this list we see some of the hurricane raptors to clean up chaff walls and maybe some judicators. Here’s a re-rolling 1s battle report where he uses this. Skinks and the wood elf sorcerer arent uncommon sights in these lists as theyre cheap and do the job so we can buy more bullets. Some favor more judicators like doom and darkness In this report we could see where 10 skinks would be a big deal to keep the iron jawz from teleporting behind him. OR we can go the otherway maybe shooting is for support and not for winning despite anyone who has played with 9 long strikes know exactly how strong it is. Why not mix it up? we see some cool lists, none that placed top 25 mind you, but they certainly look fun. You take 6 longstrikes and potentially a unit of judicators in a list like this but we’re still anvils of heldenhammer. now you can afford a celestant prime and shoot his hammer in the hero phase for more destruction. how about a star drake? You get no bonus for this but hey people did it who am i to argue. 3 units of prosecutors with javelins? Why not? (please dont buy into this one only do it if you have the models i now own 16 prosecutors because i was convinced they were good. They can be a decent chaff wall from time to time) you can also run the, i’m about to butcher the name, skyforge battalion? Theres a whole forum post on here. Basically your protectors and decimators can deep strike 5 inches away. This is a huge deal. Build that army and use long strikes to snipe heros. The core of a shootcast list is Anvils of helden hammer some way to get rerolls 1s to hit battalion or azyros relictor with translocation or vexilor Some form of chaff 9 longstrikes. do whatever you want from there. Tl:dr id recommend reading the shootcast section for more information, but heres what we typically see from the lists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGrayKing Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 @Bozly thanks for the wonderful in-depth response, this gives me a lot of information to work with. Is it better to run the 10x Evocators or 6x Evocators on Dracolines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, TheGrayKing said: @Bozly thanks for the wonderful in-depth response, this gives me a lot of information to work with. Is it better to run the 10x Evocators or 6x Evocators on Dracolines? Its preference. I prefer the guys on foot theyre cheaper. They come close to the same amount of damage. A lot of times on dracoline they’ll run a lord arcanum on dracoline to buff the mounts attacks but that doesnt go great in this build because we dont have command points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzillius Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 Shootcast? I laugh at your shootcast and present the real shootcast. No, but for real, what do you think about this list? Switching around all the damage into shooting could probably wreck some melee only armies. Ironjawz, Slaanesh, Fyreslayers etc could probably have some real trouble with this list unless you lose all priority rolls. Also I want to use the Tauralon for once, it's a cool model. The Hurricanes are worse than Longstrikes but they are the ones I built since I'm a special snowflake. What do you think? Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Anvils of the HeldenhammerLeadersLord-Arcanum on Tauralon (320)- General- Trait: Deathly Aura- Artefact: Soulthief- Spell: Stormcaller- Mount Trait: Steel PinionsLord-Ordinator (140)Lord-Relictor (100)- Prayer: TranslocationBattleline5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt Bows5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt Bows5 x Sequitors (130)- Tempest Blades and Soulshields- 1x Stormsmite GreatmacesUnits9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (420)3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Aetherwings (50)War MachinesCelestar Ballista (110)Celestar Ballista (110)Celestar Ballista (110)Celestar Ballista (110) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 @Marzillius Problem with your list is that you only have one unit which can use effectively a spent CA point. Longstrikes. If they're damaged, you lose power. With an evocator 10 man unit, if Longstrikes are damaged, you still have evos, and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzillius Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Maturin said: @Marzillius Problem with your list is that you only have one unit which can use effectively a spent CA point. Longstrikes. If they're damaged, you lose power. With an evocator 10 man unit, if Longstrikes are damaged, you still have evos, and vice versa. Yeah, if the Hurricanes go down you have to CA a Ballista instead. But if the Hurricanes go down you are probably going to lose anyway. I also don't like the 10 Evocator unit. They hit real hard sure, but then they all die since they're made of tissue paper. 4+ save is nothing in this meta. So why even fight in combat at all since Stormcast are really not on top of it at all? Another way to play the list is to run a foot Arcanum instead and have 2 10-man Sequitor units, then you could punch away weaker units from objectives while the shooting units mop up the opponent's heavy hitters. But the Tauralon is so cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) On 1/29/2020 at 6:39 AM, Sagittarii Orientalis said: I recall hearing anecdotes of official AoS facebook admitting that points nerf on SCE in 2019 handbook was a mistake. Is this true, or just groundless rumour? Or I must have browsed the web while half asleep. I forget exactly who, but it was one of the GW rules writers on twitter. They were responding to someone complaining that the SCE nerfs would have made sense 6 months prior (winter 2018-2019) and were entirely unnecessary based on the state of the game in summer 2019 (thanks to FEC, Slaanesh and Fyreslayers). The sentiment was something along the lines of (not a direct quote) “yes we recognise these changes were no longer relevant but they were written 6 months ago, sorry.” Effectively this is a problem with the GW printing process. Books take 6 months to be published. Any balance updates you are printing in a book, such as GHB, will be immediately out of date as soon as the book lands, because the game changes in that intervening period due to other releases. Why GW didn’t revert these changes in the winter 2020 balance update is anyone’s guess but I would assume 1) such a large change was out of scope (looks like they were focusing on big monsters and newer books), or 2) GW don’t care. Edit: Found the tweet Edited February 1, 2020 by PrimeElectrid 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Marzillius said: Yeah, if the Hurricanes go down you have to CA a Ballista instead. But if the Hurricanes go down you are probably going to lose anyway. I also don't like the 10 Evocator unit. They hit real hard sure, but then they all die since they're made of tissue paper. 4+ save is nothing in this meta. So why even fight in combat at all since Stormcast are really not on top of it at all? Another way to play the list is to run a foot Arcanum instead and have 2 10-man Sequitor units, then you could punch away weaker units from objectives while the shooting units mop up the opponent's heavy hitters. But the Tauralon is so cool! 7 hours ago, Marzillius said: Shootcast? I laugh at your shootcast and present the real shootcast. No, but for real, what do you think about this list? Switching around all the damage into shooting could probably wreck some melee only armies. Ironjawz, Slaanesh, Fyreslayers etc could probably have some real trouble with this list unless you lose all priority rolls. Also I want to use the Tauralon for once, it's a cool model. The Hurricanes are worse than Longstrikes but they are the ones I built since I'm a special snowflake. What do you think? Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals- Stormhost: Anvils of the HeldenhammerLeadersLord-Arcanum on Tauralon (320)- General- Trait: Deathly Aura- Artefact: Soulthief- Spell: Stormcaller- Mount Trait: Steel PinionsLord-Ordinator (140)Lord-Relictor (100)- Prayer: TranslocationBattleline5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt Bows5 x Judicators (160)- Skybolt Bows- 1x Shockbolt Bows5 x Sequitors (130)- Tempest Blades and Soulshields- 1x Stormsmite GreatmacesUnits9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (420)3 x Aetherwings (50)3 x Aetherwings (50)War MachinesCelestar Ballista (110)Celestar Ballista (110)Celestar Ballista (110)Celestar Ballista (110) The reason going full on shootcast doesnt work is this: Some armies get to you quite fast by turn 2. Shootcast is about target priority , you cant always waste time shooting things that are getting into threat range, you still need to shoot certain targets over others. Full on shooting will never work because as things get close to crowd you in melee, you hhave to switch to them. Knight Azyros is needed for longstrikes reliably doing damage and ballistas are too swingy Hence the 10 evocators. To counter and for sure remove close range threats. Lord arcanum sucks. For his points hes bad and not a good beatstick either. Id rather have 2 auto unbinds than 2 unbinds for 320. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Marzillius said: I also don't like the 10 Evocator unit. They hit real hard sure, but then they all die since they're made of tissue paper. 4+ save is nothing in this meta. So why even fight in combat at all since Stormcast are really not on top of it at all? Another way to play the list is to run a foot Arcanum instead and have 2 10-man Sequitor units, then you could punch away weaker units from objectives while the shooting units mop up the opponent's heavy hitters. But the Tauralon is so cool! I completely understand with the evocators they can have a hard time against a lot of mortal wounds or things like slaanesh which can get around a chaff wall. I particularly like hising them behind liberators and going all grandstaffs letting the libs die so i can hit back. I’ve managed to take on whole khorne ironjaw and fec flanks with that strategy. But mileage heavily varies based on list player and objective. what i like most about them isnt what they do but what they represent. Most people have a bit of ptsd from both evocators and longstrikes often times making players attack both splitting their forces and making it really easy to deal with. Some really good players understand just kill the long strikes but then theyre ignoring our evocators and they can do some real damage. Plus 1 more unbind and one more unit for shifting orb is ince. I really like the alternative of 20 sequitors it gives us more board control and roughly equal hitting power. I dont think either decision is wrong personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, Bozly said: I completely understand with the evocators they can have a hard time against a lot of mortal wounds or things like slaanesh which can get around a chaff wall. I particularly like hising them behind liberators and going all grandstaffs letting the libs die so i can hit back. I’ve managed to take on whole khorne ironjaw and fec flanks with that strategy. But mileage heavily varies based on list player and objective. what i like most about them isnt what they do but what they represent. Most people have a bit of ptsd from both evocators and longstrikes often times making players attack both splitting their forces and making it really easy to deal with. Some really good players understand just kill the long strikes but then theyre ignoring our evocators and they can do some real damage. Plus 1 more unbind and one more unit for shifting orb is ince. I really like the alternative of 20 sequitors it gives us more board control and roughly equal hitting power. I dont think either decision is wrong personally. 20 sequitors get tied up on the corners way too easily and having no 2inch reach on the grandmaces is really gonna hurt when it comes to damage output and pile ins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzillius Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 45 minutes ago, jhamslam said: Id rather have 2 auto unbinds than 2 unbinds for 320. The worst part is he doesn't even have 2 unbinds, only one. Despite costing 320. He's kind of an ****** unit, but the thinking is that if the opponents melee unit comes close and gets bound up with Aetherwings, then you can move the Tauralon over them and get +1 to hit with the Hurricanes and more importantly Ballistas. The problem is that even with his 14" move the enemy needs to be within 8" for it to work (you need to move the 3" that you have to stay out of twice). So I don't think it will work. But I'm curious about taking this kind of full shooting list to a tournament just to see how it goes. A 2-3 army maybe, 3-2 if lucky with matchups. But that's pretty true for any Stormcast list that you can come up with lol. Did anyone see the latest Honest Wargamer stats? 38% winrate for Stormcast, that's pretty sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 39 minutes ago, jhamslam said: 20 sequitors get tied up on the corners way too easily and having no 2inch reach on the grandmaces is really gonna hurt when it comes to damage output and pile ins Oh i was agreeing running two blocks of 10. 20 is too big for their base size i agree ive had a lot of problems with it in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozly Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Marzillius said: Also I want to use the Tauralon for once, it's a cool model. The Hurricanes are worse than Longstrikes but they are the ones I built since I'm a special snowflake. What do you think? Tauralon is a really cool model but this list is way too far on the too much shooting side. I’ve never used him before but i think we can make it work! The easiest answer is just unplug the evocators and plug him in but thats too boring and kinda sucks. So if we want to be shootcast i like a list kinda like this aventis castellant relictor azyros 2x 5 lib 10x sequitor 3 evocators on dracoline or on foot (i like dracoline for mobility or just take 10 more sequitors but we lose mobility mortal wounds and an unbind but gail crucial board control and can drop 5 libs for whatever we want like an everblaze) 9 long strikes (you can proxy as longs OR take the hurricanes drop 3 aetherwings for an everblaze commet) 3x aetherwings 3x aetherwings or a command point. is it a perfect list? No. But does it effectively do what we want? Absolutely. We wind up with less magic protection from a lack of incantors but we have 3 unbinds still. I think shootcast works fine here. but my first instinct was hallowheart. The taurolon is really sexy there. You can run this any way you want but adam took a cool list to cancon with some pointy ears Annointed tauralon celestial hurricanum battlemage hysh battlemage aqshy 2x 10 phoenix guard 10 darkshards 4x 10 shadow warriors Whitefire retinue extra command point. the troops are arbitrary here you can run a crossbow irondrake bridge list with this the tauralon just cant come across the bridge with the party. A whitefire retinue with him in it is a really good idea because he can take the mortalwounds. We do not want to run him as aventis as any item we give him will be better than aventis’s item. Lots of good options here. Most arent competitive tournament wise, but in any local meta will be plenty competitive. Edited February 1, 2020 by Bozly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizrah Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Marzillius said: Did anyone see the latest Honest Wargamer stats? 38% winrate for Stormcast, that's pretty sad. Yep. Condition of SCE is very sad. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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