AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[PJetski]

18 hours ago, jhamslam said:

Alright so at LVO this year there are 18 OBR players atleast, and only 5 registered SCE players

I know im one of the SCE players, whos the other 4? Anyone in here? 

Also @PJetski , any experience against OBR? 

Anvilstrike has been working very well for me.  Theyre like LON but with +2 to saves and far fewer bodies.

The Guard are a very slow melee unit that dies to Evocators, Cavalry can be tied down with Aetherwings, and while 2 crawlers can be scary at first you can teleport/deep strike shoot them down. The only OBR lists I even remotely struggle against are ones that bring 3 or 4 crawlers, but those get bullied out of the melee meta by melee armies like Fyreslayers and Slaves to Darkness. Most OBR lists are just running guard, cavalry, and harvesters to try to compete with the melee meta.

Their heroes do almost nothing and almost aren't worth shooting. The only reason to shoot them is to get rid of their death save right before your evocators charge in for the killing blow, but it's more important to kill the Harvesters in that situation.

Remember that Guard only re-roll saves in the combat phase.

[XReN]

19 hours ago, PJetski said:

The only reason to shoot them is to get rid of their death save

All Bonereaper units also have Death saves from HEKATOS keyword or Hekatos unit leader, exceptions are Crawler and Harvester

Edited January 17, 2020 by XReN

[schwabbele]

Just want to confirm, can I use a Greatblade in a WarHammer liberator unit? I am pretty sure yes cause it says the unit weapon option can be replaced with either or.

[Maturin]

6 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

Just want to confirm, can I use a Greatblade in a WarHammer liberator unit? I am pretty sure yes cause it says the unit weapon option can be replaced with either or.

1 Greatblade for 4 blade liberators or 1 Greathammer for 4 hammer libs.

[schwabbele]

5 minutes ago, Maturin said:

1 Greatblade for 4 blade liberators or 1 Greathammer for 4 hammer libs.

You read the warscroll? What brings you that conclusion?

[Turragor]

You can take great blade with hammers or vice versa afaik but all you gain is confusion when rolling really 

[Maturin]

10 minutes ago, Turragor said:

You can take great blade with hammers or vice versa afaik but all you gain is confusion when rolling really 

You're sure about that ?

 

[Maturin]

Oh yeah, it does say either. My bad

[Lucur]

Just pondering, would Gav with the Prime make a decent combo? I mean, it's darn expensive and locks you into Hammers, but letting the prime sit turn 1, then guarantee the charge with Gav, while Gav gets to charge something nasty nearby so it can't pile into Mr. Prime?

This might fit with a Kitty list instead of a ballista bomb, or a large chunk of Sequitors to maybe get them back with Hammers. Just pondering...

[Turragor]

3 minutes ago, Lucur said:

Just pondering, would Gav with the Prime make a decent combo? I mean, it's darn expensive and locks you into Hammers, but letting the prime sit turn 1, then guarantee the charge with Gav, while Gav gets to charge something nasty nearby so it can't pile into Mr. Prime?

This might fit with a Kitty list instead of a ballista bomb, or a large chunk of Sequitors to maybe get them back with Hammers. Just pondering...

I've played the Prime a lot and there are a bunch of fun melee focused Prime tricks due to the cool nature of his scroll. The most fun are CP heavy though.

Like he takes a Stormhost keyword in a Stormhost list, so he can make use of Anvils, Vindicators CAs. He triggers those CAs himself so doesn't need to be within range of another hero.

If you go Hammers you can add in a LCoD and use the CA to give him another attack.

All this is sort of moot though because he is too succulent, plump and juicy to resist more than a sneeze from the opponent. So I tend to use him as artillery or an assassin guaranteed (nearly) to die after taking out one model or unit worth 340 pts or more (if he doesn't fluff his attacks). In that role I favour the All out attack CA (reroll hits of 1) and then using his Orrery of fates to guarantee one of the wounds (if I didn't use the fates to charge 12").

Make the Prime great again GW! Give him a 4+ ward save. He would still be  worse than Gotrek.

[Maturin]

12 hours ago, Turragor said:

So I tend to use him as artillery or an assassin guaranteed (nearly) to die after taking out one model or unit worth 340 pts or more (if he doesn't fluff his attacks). 

Mine always swings Gal Maraz in the wind. He might be swinging at flies , but his enemy ? Never!

[Maturin]

12 hours ago, Turragor said:

Like he takes a Stormhost keyword in a Stormhost list, so he can make use of Anvils, Vindicators CAs. He triggers those CAs himself so doesn't need to be within range of another hero.

We do agree that he can t make a second round of shooting with Anvil's CA, right ?

[Turragor]

3 minutes ago, Maturin said:

We do agree that he can t make a second round of shooting with Anvil's CA, right ?

Correct, it's a ranged ability rather than a ranged weapon attack.

[Maturin]

31 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Correct, it's a ranged ability rather than a ranged weapon attack.

Too bad! But yeah, that'd be VERY powerful. Guaranteed 6MW in a radius a turn ? Yiha!

[Heaven_lord]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:42 PM, PJetski said:

Anvilstrike has been working very well for me.  Theyre like LON but with +2 to saves and far fewer bodies.

The Guard are a very slow melee unit that dies to Evocators, Cavalry can be tied down with Aetherwings, and while 2 crawlers can be scary at first you can teleport/deep strike shoot them down. The only OBR lists I even remotely struggle against are ones that bring 3 or 4 crawlers, but those get bullied out of the melee meta by melee armies like Fyreslayers and Slaves to Darkness. Most OBR lists are just running guard, cavalry, and harvesters to try to compete with the melee meta.

Their heroes do almost nothing and almost aren't worth shooting. The only reason to shoot them is to get rid of their death save right before your evocators charge in for the killing blow, but it's more important to kill the Harvesters in that situation.

Remember that Guard only re-roll saves in the combat phase.

Hey ! Would you have, by any chance, a new army list to share ?

Thanks !

[Malakithe]

What stormhost, if any, would suit this kind of list? General idea is to teleport the kitties into back field stuff and birdies are quick speed bumps or tie up ranged units.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (520)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 106
 

[Turragor]

21 hours ago, Malakithe said:

What stormhost, if any, would suit this kind of list? General idea is to teleport the kitties into back field stuff and birdies are quick speed bumps or tie up ranged units.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Chain Lightning
Lord-Castellant (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
5 x Liberators (100)
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (520)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 106
 

An idea I've played with is taking a large cavalry unit and Heraldor(s) as Celestial warbringers. 

Mainly so you can bait opponents into misdeploying and then redeploy your big cavunit for a r1 run and charge. 

It's just an idea and I've no idea how strong it is. 

Astral templars provides a similar r1 shock b on bonus with the free move. The main difference is a redeploy is much stronger than a move but the templars CA has more use. 

The traditional choice (anvils) might be better. 

Otherwise with Castellant and LCoSD general I'm taking no host and staunch defender 90% of the time. 

[Joseph Mackay]

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura  
- Artefact: Soulthief  
- Spell: Chain Lightning
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
Knight-Azyros (100)

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warblade & Shield
- 1x Grandblades

Units
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (260)
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (260)
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (260)
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (260)
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

[Scurvydog]

Been playing around with some ideas on "fixes" for Liberators and the paladin unit types:

Liberators:

120 pts (20 increase for 5)

same statwheel

Weapon changes: +1 rend to both hammer types, +1 to wound on both sword types. +1 attack for for non great weapons. 

dual wield and shield rules remain the same.

Lay low the tyrant changed to: "The resolve of liberators only increase as they come face to face with the most dangerous foes" - +2 bravery when the liberator unit is within 3" of an enemy model with a wound characteristic of 5 or more.

New ability: Hold the line!: "Liberators are known to stem the tide against the most impossible odds"  When determining control of an objective, a unit of Liberators always counts as a minimum of 10 models even if there are fewer models than 10 in the unit.

 

This should turn liberators into the true objective holders, inspired a bit by the ogor book as well, to help Stormcast with the low model count problem in the objective game and give liberators a clear role. Fightyness improved somewhat too along with point increase to reflect what these warriors should be like, still lower raw damage output or ability to reroll all saves like sequitors.

 

All Paladin units:

+20 point increase, +1 save across the board.

Starsoul mace changed to: Instead of the normal attack squence roll 5 dice. Each 4+ is a mortal wound, each 6+ is 2 mortal wounds

Retributors: 

Blast to ashes: changed to the same rules as concussors have i.e. 6 to hit is 1 MW in addition and denys pile in moves.

Protectors:

+1 attack

Decimators:

+1 damage to thunderaxes

 

An obvious upgrade and also point increase to bring them in line with evocators. Starsoul maces are hard to balance compared to evocators who on average dishes out 1 MW in addition per model. They will still be slower than evocators, but tougher and the damage output more in line with point cost and todays power creep.

Wishful thinking I guess, I just love the warrior chamber stuff

 

[jhamslam]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

Been playing around with some ideas on "fixes" for Liberators and the paladin unit types:

Liberators:

120 pts (20 increase for 5)

same statwheel

Weapon changes: +1 rend to both hammer types, +1 to wound on both sword types. +1 attack for for non great weapons. 

dual wield and shield rules remain the same.

Lay low the tyrant changed to: "The resolve of liberators only increase as they come face to face with the most dangerous foes" - +2 bravery when the liberator unit is within 3" of an enemy model with a wound characteristic of 5 or more.

New ability: Hold the line!: "Liberators are known to stem the tide against the most impossible odds"  When determining control of an objective, a unit of Liberators always counts as a minimum of 10 models even if there are fewer models than 10 in the unit.

 

This should turn liberators into the true objective holders, inspired a bit by the ogor book as well, to help Stormcast with the low model count problem in the objective game and give liberators a clear role. Fightyness improved somewhat too along with point increase to reflect what these warriors should be like, still lower raw damage output or ability to reroll all saves like sequitors.

 

All Paladin units:

+20 point increase, +1 save across the board.

Starsoul mace changed to: Instead of the normal attack squence roll 5 dice. Each 4+ is a mortal wound, each 6+ is 2 mortal wounds

Retributors: 

Blast to ashes: changed to the same rules as concussors have i.e. 6 to hit is 1 MW in addition and denys pile in moves.

Protectors:

+1 attack

Decimators:

+1 damage to thunderaxes

 

An obvious upgrade and also point increase to bring them in line with evocators. Starsoul maces are hard to balance compared to evocators who on average dishes out 1 MW in addition per model. They will still be slower than evocators, but tougher and the damage output more in line with point cost and todays power creep.

Wishful thinking I guess, I just love the warrior chamber stuff

 

Not a fan of liberators going to 120. We need a cheap battleline at 100, and honestly now that Ardboyz come in at 80 and Vulkite Berzerkers at 140 for 10 with 2 wounds a piece. Liberators and Sequitors just need to be 3+ wounds a piece and have rend on all weapons

[Alladinthepaladin]

16 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

Not a fan of liberators going to 120. We need a cheap battleline at 100, and honestly now that Ardboyz come in at 80 and Vulkite Berzerkers at 140 for 10 with 2 wounds a piece. Liberators and Sequitors just need to be 3+ wounds a piece and have rend on all weapons

I was mulling the idea of 3 wound Stormcast as a base. I think it makes sense (and follows my basic rationalizing that 25mm base models should have 1W, 32mm base models 2W, 40mm base models should have 3-4, etc... 

One way or another, even your bog-standard SCE shouldn’t be easy to kill. The current meta doesn’t reflect this well enough.

[Scurvydog]

19 minutes ago, Alladinthepaladin said:

I was mulling the idea of 3 wound Stormcast as a base. I think it makes sense (and follows my basic rationalizing that 25mm base models should have 1W, 32mm base models 2W, 40mm base models should have 3-4, etc... 

One way or another, even your bog-standard SCE shouldn’t be easy to kill. The current meta doesn’t reflect this well enough.

That is also an option,  the baseline of the Stormcast as a whole needs to be looked at, with 2 wounds "elite" infantry becoming the norm. This is a problem with AoS having no toughness value, which limits what you can do to represent a tough unit. The fluff seems to suggest they are in line with custodes from 40k or up there in pure power, not just physically larger, but also powered by the divine. Right now though a liberator is vastly outdone by the common ardboy or basic fyreslayer.

While a liberator sohuld not be better than the elites of other armies, it should not be weaker than basic battleline at the same cost. I think the introduction of sequitors really hurt the army overall, as they are so similar in their intended role, we already have paladins and also evocators now for the elite of the elite roles, but that puts liberators vs sequitors in an odd spot. Who thought it would be a good idea to make Sequitors just better liberators?

5 sequitors on average deals 6.8 damage against a 4+ save, if they choose reroll to hit Liberators do 2,6 damage vs a 4+. That is a crazy gap, sequitors also have the option to reroll saves instead.

This leaves a lot of room for improvement for Liberators, but they do not need to be damage machines, just a bit better there, and then tougher. I also still belive giving them an edge in capturing objectives is a way to differentiate them from the other potential battlelines in the army

[Maturin]

Well, you won t believe how many times I heard : omgksjdkdk stormbois r 2 stronk. There s a real discrepancy between what we do and what others think we can do. Sure we can win againt some lists are average players, causr overall our armies are more forgiving or so I like to think. But we arent the overpowered monsters people claim we are.

[CommissarRotke]

This is mentioned every so often but I'll plug it again: to prevent GW hearing too much negativity about SCE, comment on facebook (and I guess twitter if they're active there too). Not sure if store managers can relay feedback but that might be an option?

Stormcast have the unfortunate effect of collecting the "posterchild" hate, which from what I can tell means that outside of competitive circles, they catch the most complaints

[Scurvydog]

28 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

This is mentioned every so often but I'll plug it again: to prevent GW hearing too much negativity about SCE, comment on facebook (and I guess twitter if they're active there too). Not sure if store managers can relay feedback but that might be an option?

Stormcast have the unfortunate effect of collecting the "posterchild" hate, which from what I can tell means that outside of competitive circles, they catch the most complaints

I think most of the community at this point agrees that Stormcast are not in a great place, they suffer a lot from being the first book in the edition along with nighthaunt, both are books with a lot of strange choice and looks like an Alpha test of the later tomes this edition.

It does take the prize for most horrible battalions ever put into a book I think