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AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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3 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

I was honestly surprised they raised the values when they did.  Seemed like really bad timing.  SCE wasn't exactly dominating at the time.  And they were releasing comparative nonsense in the new books.

It's due to production and printing schedule. Those books are written many months before they hit the printer, so it's not like they can pivot and fix values as event results make imbalances known. 

GW doesn't want to go to constantly-updated digital points because they're afraid it'll put a burden on the average player to keep up (tournament players being the minority in their minds, whether true or not). For better or worse, the point values are going to be ~6 months behind the current meta for the forseeable future.

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Time will tell, but Anvilstrike lists might become even less competitive in the near future.

I recall a number of tournaments allowing longstrikes to shoot at 30" during hero phase, before the lastest SCE errata.

Now that Longstrikes' range during hero phase is officially confirmed to be 24", prioritising target has become even more difficult. And  this might have repercussions for the performance of SCE.

Good players will keep their valuable units more than 24" away from Longstrikes, if not 30". And Longstrikes will find hard time focusing their firepower on desirable target, being forced to split their firepower for at least a turn. And loss of focused shooting for even a brief moment is devastating to expensive and fragile Longstrikes. One turn of inefficient shooting can cost a SCE player an entire game. And there is only so much a few unit of aetherwings can achieve, as opponents can easily dispatch them even with minimal shooting and spells. 

Longstrikes were already an easy prey to enemy shooting, and the difficulty of devastating high priority target in a single turn only exacerbates the issue. Mortek Crawlers were already tough for Longstrikes to deal with, while even a single missed save against Crawler's ranged attack mean 2.5 Longstrikes are easily gone. Orruk arrow boyz always threatened Longstrikes with their sheer volume of fire, even when Aetherstrike Force was present in former SCE battletome. And once Celestial Hurricanum enters within its 18" threat range, 3d3 mortal wounds decimates Longstrikes. At this point, I am not sure whether or not SCE can be dubbed as "shootcast" anymore.

Granted, Evocators on Dracolines received hefty points cost reduction. However, they still face these issues in competitive games: opponents bring either units that are cheaper AND more mobile AND more powerful, or bring units that are cheaper AND more durable(be it better save or greater number of wounds per model). The former group include Morsarr Guard and Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs, while latter include Skullcrushers, Demigryph Knights, Mournfangs and Gore Gruntas. Evocators on Dracolines struggled to keep aforementioned enemy units in check before, and after the errata it is only slightly less difficult. The fundamental problem still remains unsolved. 

Edited by Sagittarii Orientalis
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I’m thinking of just shelving mine, I played my girlfriends Nighthaunt last weekend, and even it outperformed our book. I really hope we get a fixed book and not just “oh here’s a new chamber open! Enjoy it til we nerf the hell out of it because the vocal minority’s Facebook whining!”. I swear if enough of us got on their Facebook and said something maybe they’d listen. 

Edited by OIF4IDVET
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48 minutes ago, OIF4IDVET said:

I’m thinking of just shelving mine, I played my girlfriends Nighthaunt last weekend, and even it outperformed our book. I really hope we get a fixed book and not just “oh here’s a new chamber open! Enjoy it til we here the hell out of it because the vocal minority’s Facebook whining!”. I swear if enough of us got on their Facebook and said something maybe they’d listen. 

Stormcast was my main army (followed by seraphon and khorne...so yeah...).  The amount that GW has messed up SCE has really hurt my hobby motivation

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48 minutes ago, chord said:

Stormcast was my main army (followed by seraphon and khorne...so yeah...).  The amount that GW has messed up SCE has really hurt my hobby motivation

Hate to agree and I can't tell if it's because I'm reading more about playing than hobbying/painting itself, but I'm about to return the Vanguard SC box my girlfriend bought me to wait on Hysh aelves :/ I know I've got my own painting-block hill to get over, but the dread feeling that I won't enjoy Stormcast if I ever play again makes that block a bit heavier itself.

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24 minutes ago, LordPrometheus said:

I feel this. I LOVE my Stormcast models, love the lore, but my gosh GW has just dicked them over in terms of gameplay. 

The lore was/is awesome!!   I want to know more about Azyr itself, etc.   Love the models, the idea of good guys fighting back evil was what drew me to them.   

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5 minutes ago, Ghiggio said:

Do you think that a list with celestant prime and celestant on stardrake is good ?

They are not considered competitive for the points they cost. But they are awesome models to see all painted up.

Competitive would start with a Lord Relictor for teleporting purposes, and a max unit of Vanguard Raptors with Longstrikes.

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6 minutes ago, SleeperAgent said:

They are not considered competitive for the points they cost. But they are awesome models to see all painted up.

Competitive would start with a Lord Relictor for teleporting purposes, and a max unit of Vanguard Raptors with Longstrikes.

I disagree, the sheer potential MW output is incredible. You might struggle to obtain and conserve objectives though due to the lack of models but every list depending on synergies between 5/6 wounds heroes will hate you when you remove their heroes T1.

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2 minutes ago, Maturin said:

I disagree, the sheer potential MW output is incredible. You might struggle to obtain and conserve objectives though due to the lack of models but every list depending on synergies between 5/6 wounds heroes will hate you when you remove their heroes T1.

I still don't get this "potential" (although the list might work due to its sheer surprise effect): for 840 points you get an average of 2 MW to 2 units (drake) and 2 MW in 3 inches (prime) in each of your turns. So on average you won't be removing any of those 5/6 wounds heroes in T1. This feels underwhelming for such an investment -but I am happy to be convinced otherwise as I own and love both models :D

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9 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

I still don't get this "potential" (although the list might work due to its sheer surprise effect): for 840 points you get an average of 2 MW to 2 units (drake) and 2 MW in 3 inches (prime) in each of your turns. So on average you won't be removing any of those 5/6 wounds heroes in T1. This feels underwhelming for such an investment -but I am happy to be convinced otherwise as I own and love both models :D

3 Drakesworn templars : 3x D6 units on the battlefield affected by D3 MW. If you're very lucky 9 MW to a unit/model.

1 Stardrake, 1 Drakesworn, 1 Celestant Prime : 2x D6 units affected by D3MW + D3MW in a D6" which you can change to what accomodates you. Stardrake with Staunch defender + castellant is very resilient.

I think it's really violent. People will say that longstrikes are more realiable, but you can also totally fail your MW output with longstrikes if you're not lucky.

Edited by Maturin
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27 minutes ago, Ghiggio said:

Do you think that a list with celestant prime and celestant on stardrake is good ?

Good enough to win games with for sure! The Stardrake just got a nice point decrease too, so I'd give him a shot if you feel like painting one.

You as a player are the main factor when it comes to winning games. A good list helps, but doesn't carry you to victory if your opponent plays better (or the dice decide to go meh too much). Stuff like tier lists and tournament stats have no influence on you untill you master multiple armies and compete succesfully in 40+ man tournaments regularly.

The most important thing when it comes to picking an army is how you like their playstyle/vibe/models/whatever that makes you excited about them. It's a lot of work building painting and learning to play the game, so make sure you have fun doing so 😁

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20 minutes ago, Maturin said:

3 Drakesworn templars : 3x D6 units on the battlefield affected by D3 MW. If you're very lucky 9 MW to a unit/model.

1 Stardrake, 1 Drakesworn, 1 Celestant Prime : 2x D6 units affected by D3MW + D3MW in a D6" which you can change to what accomodates you. Stardrake with Staunch defender + castellant is very resilient.

I think it's really violent. People will say that longstrikes are more realiable, but you can also totally fail your MW output with longstrikes if you're not lucky.

Right, I see, thanks for the added explanation.

With a second/third drake you are sitting at around 1200/1300 points to do on average 6-8 MW per turn. If we are counting lucky scenarios, we can as well drop 4 ballistas from the sky with an ordinator and an azyros, and those will still dish on average 7-13 wounds T1 to 3+ save heros with lookout sir  for a mere 680 points (which in comparison with the drakes, would leave points for 9 longstrikes on top). Of course if you need MW for specific reasons or to ignore LoS that's a different matter.

So yeah, I don't know. I admit I've never gone so all-in with the drakes (only ever fieldeded one LCoSD + castellant) so I am definitely not saying that the list cannot work.

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17 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

Right, I see, thanks for the added explanation.

With a second/third drake you are sitting at around 1200/1300 points to do on average 6-8 MW per turn. If we are counting lucky scenarios, we can as well drop 4 ballistas from the sky with an ordinator and an azyros, and those will still dish on average 7-13 wounds T1 to 3+ save heros with lookout sir  for a mere 680 points (which in comparison with the drakes, would leave points for 9 longstrikes on top). Of course if you need MW for specific reasons or to ignore LoS that's a different matter.

So yeah, I don't know. I admit I've never gone so all-in with the drakes (only ever fieldeded one LCoSD + castellant) so I am definitely not saying that the list cannot work.

On paper you are right, on the board the way the drakes (sometimes prime, though he usually dies) can be played in other ways in comparison to the ballista are the key.

You're eating 6 models per combat phase (12 per turn - until the drakes drop wounds) which really messes with units with either high saves + ward saves, or high hit debuffs.

They are durable (each in their own way - one being ethereal, the other being the traditional "unkillable drake") which messes with other armies.

They are mobile - 12" move is some of the best SC has to offer. A lot of other lists we have don't move at all after the initial deploy.

The prime has a toolkit that compliments this kind of list in that you choose a roll each turn - either the range or the mw output of the comet on your "shooting focused" turns, and usually a combat hit or save roll on the enemy's turn/a combat assassin focused turn.

For me the Starcast list wins more than it loses (luck, scenarios and matchups all factored in I have it at 12 wins 6 losses over several tournaments).  It's better (for me) than any other SC list I've taken. That's before the 100pt reduction in the Drake and Templar (a surprising amount of potential opens up with that discount).

For me for now, this is the definitive Starcast list:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Celestant-Prime (340)
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)
- General
- Celestine Hammer
- Trait: Staunch Defender
- Mount Trait: Storm-winged
Drakesworn Templar (420)
- Tempest Axe
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Lord-Castellant (120)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Lord-Exorcist (120)
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86

 

The option is there to drop the heraldor and upgrade exorcist (rather terrible scroll) to incantor then take 10 skinks. But for long range,  unavoidable MW output this list is unmatched - certainly for SC and perhaps in the meta as a whole. It's even somewhat of a counter to other long range, MW output lists. I've beaten tournament Hallowheart lists twice for example. I've also beat the 9 Stormfiend Skaven list (before the Dec 19 nerf).

In some games, if the dice are against you, you won't shift the support heroes you want to. In others you'll remove support heroes and key 10 wound + enemy pieces together with shocking (lol) battleshock damage to units.

Spoiler - current Tzeentch will eat this list for breakfast, new Tzeentch even more so quite likely - but you can't win em all! :P

Basically, I'm not saying this is the best list we have, and it is unforgiving and hard to get to grips with... but it's not something to be immediately discounted (in my experience) as a loopy, wildcard list.

Full dets are in the Honest Wargamer rundowns I've done (and more discussion or playtesting results are welcome in the Starcast thread).

Happy New Year all :)

Edited by Turragor
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Ive played this list from above a lot just without the lord castellant.  Most games ive killed the whole army of my opponent. Even facing skaven. But most ive lost on objectives. After a game or 10 i got bored of the list. None of my opponents really enjoyed the matchup against double stardrake.  Not because its strong but the starfall mechanic is kind of boring to play against.  Brought it to 2 tournaments but there also people didnt have fun playing against it and im starting to dislike lists around mechanics like starfall, slaanesh locus etc. 

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Hey all, was thinking about starting Stormcast and ran across the following army for sale. Is this a good base to start off with? The army comes out to a little over/under 1k. 
 

2 X 5 Vanguard Hunters

1 X 3 Vanguard Palladors

1 X 3 Vanguard Raptors

1 X 3 Aetherwings

1 X Lord Aquilor

1 X Knight Venator

1 X Naeve Blacktalon ( or ran as Knight Zephyros)

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1 hour ago, GrungnisBeard said:

Hey all, was thinking about starting Stormcast and ran across the following army for sale. Is this a good base to start off with? The army comes out to a little over/under 1k. 
 

2 X 5 Vanguard Hunters

1 X 3 Vanguard Palladors

1 X 3 Vanguard Raptors

1 X 3 Aetherwings

1 X Lord Aquilor

1 X Knight Venator

1 X Naeve Blacktalon ( or ran as Knight Zephyros)

Unless you can grab it for a very cheap price, I'd refrain from buying it. Vanguard units aren't in a good place right now. The only competitive units are the longstrikes and the aetherwings. 

Mind you, if it's just for fun,  and you get it cheap, like 50E, then buy it and have fun. 

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13 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Unless you can grab it for a very cheap price, I'd refrain from buying it. Vanguard units aren't in a good place right now. The only competitive units are the longstrikes and the aetherwings. 

Mind you, if it's just for fun,  and you get it cheap, like 50E, then buy it and have fun. 

It’s 300 including codex and painted to above tabletop standard.

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