AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[FattBooM666]

6 hours ago, Charleston said:

Well, I currently have 20 Sequitors, 5 Evocs on foot, 5 Retributors, Castigators, 3 Ballistas and some heroes. So yeah, from my unit selections shocking close to the enemy looks like the fastest I can get, which is why I concidered Gavriel to go the Gavbomb route, althrough @readercolin pointed some good contra against that. Maybe Dracolines are really a better Idea, also because I could play that battalion with 2x Evocators and 2x Sequitors.

I am really not sure how I shall rate the Stardrake. It looks neat but also so expensive, money and pointwise, that it really looks risky to me to buy it. The celestant Prime meanwhile is half the price, 25% less points and I would really concider it to be a quite damn good option, althrough I already hate thoose wings and really fear to transport the model. Therefore Dracolines or Gavriel look like the best quickfix to me. Althrough I would be really curious about your experiences with the Stardrakes

How about you just buy some ebay/alien express bases or just borrow some bases. Put on some whatever models and play it as a stardrake/stardrakes?
Just play vs a mate and tell him/her that you want to try some stuff out to make sure you want to buy the model/models.
Or just try roll some dice vs yourself or use a program online.

There are several ways to improve the gavbomb but that is up to your flavor.

First thing first cleansing phalax is really expensive now.
People know gavbomb and can use chaff and other screens to protect the important stuff.
So they will most likely screen up and give you first turn.
So you cant charge in to that, like they want. Here we have some options.

Take objectives, hide important heroes and save another CP for the stacking and that will give you 100% charge or save it to revive a big unit of sequitors.

Could have a unit of raptors with Xbows teleport them with vexilor/relictor (does not count as move and unleash a high amount of shots to try kill chaff and then you can go in with your bomb.

Add in prosecutors with fast movement and 18" reach to pick chaff.

You can atm have organ gun/cannons with a smith as allies.

You can have a big unit of 10-15 evocators in the backfield, buffing up with celestial blades, +1 armor castellant, use a relictor teleport or have a vexilor. Drop end of turn, teleport the ultrabuffed evocators. have a +6" rerollable charge. And if you have a azyros as general you can leave a 40mm base in the middle of the evocators so you have a 9" 6++ bubble, and dont forget the rr1s.
(Also when using teleports or coming from the sky you have the -1 hit)
There are ways to make gavbomb work, but its up to you if you want a flexible list. Or you go all out on one list and then learn it to the max and know its weaknesses and pros.

Edited December 28, 2019 by FattBooM666

[Mark Williams]

2 hours ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

That is actually quite ludicrous. So some players become angry because they actually have to play wisely in order to win against stormcast, instead of just steamrolling them?

It’s easy to forget about the units in the sky, so even if you’ve seen it, sometimes you just slip up and get slammed for it. It creates a “feels bad” moment. If you know about it and are waiting for it, sometimes you don’t get to do whatever “thing” your army does so you feel like it’s a boring game. Also it auto wins against a lot of armies, so some people just don’t get to play a more casual list that they may want to play. On the flip side, it auto loses against some other armies, so some other opponents feel its just a shallow, boring trick. So it’s either a stressful and mentally exhausting game for people to have to play against, or it’s just a dull easily countered tactic that no on finds interesting. There’s a time and a place for that sort of game. The casual hobby group is not always that place.

 

 The most common feedback I get from players is that from their side of the table, it looks almost like cheating. It’s too easy to use, and you don’t have to put much thought into it. And there isn’t much for them to interact with during the process. At its most simplistic level, Gavriel lets you delete a unit off the table “for free”, and the only interaction the opponent has with it is getting to try to limit the available options of units to be deleted. A lot of people seem to find that extremely annoying to play against.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Mark Williams

[OIF4IDVET]

I kinda need help putting together a 1000 points list, I’ve got all the soul wars stuff plus an extra box of evocators and a box of evocators on cats, I also have the thunderstrike box and vanguard box, and 9 longstrikes. 

I haven’t honestly had time to sit down and do a list and I’m getting back into the game from old fantasy battle days. 

The one game I’ve played I just took an Knight incantor and 10 evocators on foot with two 5 man liberator squads (need to change their name to Evaporators because that’s all they did), and one ballista. 

Thanks in advance! 

[Mark Williams]

Played against Ossiarch Bonereapers tonight. Got tabled by turn 3.  Wow they seem really good. Their basic troops are stronger than my best elites.

[FattBooM666]

3 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

Played against Ossiarch Bonereapers tonight. Got tabled by turn 3.  Wow they seem really good. Their basic troops are stronger than my best elites.

Ouff, sounds rough. Was it 2+ crawlers with troops? 

 

What did you bring, anything you think will work?

[Nozdormu]

What do you think about Desolators at competetive scene? Unit of 6 with Celestial Blades from Knight-Incantor and rerolling ones to hit from Azyros can devastate many serious foes in single combat phase and with Lord-Castellant they are nearly unkillable by enemies without rend or mortals. Changes to plague monks, stormfiends and Slaannesh make them more playable. In the other hand they are still threaten by Mortek Guard (rend -2), witches with Mindrazor, shooting (warplock jezzails, shootcast) and monsters.
 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Nozdormu

[Mark Williams]

11 hours ago, FattBooM666 said:

Ouff, sounds rough. Was it 2+ crawlers with troops? 

 

What did you bring, anything you think will work?

Petrifex elites,

2x20 mortrek guard, 10 horse cavalry, 2 morghasts, arkhan the black, karakros, endles spell that marks a target for death.

 I was playing hammers of Sigmar

2x5 liberators, 5 sequitors, lord arcanum, knight encantor, Gavriel, ckesrant prime, aetherwings, 2x3 hurricane raptors, 10 evocators, Dias arcanum, celestial vortex, gravetide 

I dropped the evocators in front of the morghasts, arkhan, and the cavalry. Over 3 turns killed  killed the morghasts and 5 cavalry. Arkansas teleported away due to some spell.

 The sequitors, both squads of liberators, lord arcanum, and knight incantor all died to mortrek guard with getting to attack (12-18 wounds caused every time they attacked anything.

gavriel got charged by katakros and died instantly.

 The celestant prime dropped and charged and killed arkan, then died to katakros the next turn.

Game over at that point.

 I don’t have the rend and volume of dice to deal with the army. The troops felt like hitting a spiked brick wall with my face. Couldn’t get any damage through, anything that touched them died instantly.

[Kramer]

6 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

. The troops felt like hitting a spiked brick wall with my face

Hahaha brilliant analogy 😂

[Marcvs]

13 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

 I don’t have the rend and volume of dice to deal with the army. The troops felt like hitting a spiked brick wall with my face. Couldn’t get any damage through, anything that touched them died instantly.

Question is: how can we improve on that feeling with an SCE army? Knowing that ofc a mid-tier army will face an uphill battle against OBR

1) Would a buffed big block of sequitors work better to tie down their infantry? (And possibly just do some damage, possibly through azyrite shield) or maybe moar moar chaff is a better option
2) Would -2 rend units (ballistas, longstrikes) be of any help?
3) Would it be possible to build a sufficient MW output? (Starcast, comet, more Evo on foot...)

Anyone has any good experiences against them to share?

[Juicy]

On 12/28/2019 at 2:47 AM, Mark Williams said:

It’s easy to forget about the units in the sky, so even if you’ve seen it, sometimes you just slip up and get slammed for it. It creates a “feels bad” moment. If you know about it and are waiting for it, sometimes you don’t get to do whatever “thing” your army does so you feel like it’s a boring game. Also it auto wins against a lot of armies, so some people just don’t get to play a more casual list that they may want to play. On the flip side, it auto loses against some other armies, so some other opponents feel its just a shallow, boring trick. So it’s either a stressful and mentally exhausting game for people to have to play against, or it’s just a dull easily countered tactic that no on finds interesting. There’s a time and a place for that sort of game. The casual hobby group is not always that place.

 

 The most common feedback I get from players is that from their side of the table, it looks almost like cheating. It’s too easy to use, and you don’t have to put much thought into it. And there isn’t much for them to interact with during the process. At its most simplistic level, Gavriel lets you delete a unit off the table “for free”, and the only interaction the opponent has with it is getting to try to limit the available options of units to be deleted. A lot of people seem to find that extremely annoying to play against.

I do understand this a bit tho. People felt the same way about my double stardrake list. I thought it was bad 1100 points on 2 models who have a hard time grabbing or holding objectives. But the double starfall was fun for me for a while but every opponent that i played didnt had fun. Cause the starfall mechanic insta kills small units and heroes with some luck. And there is nothing to do about it but killing the dragons. Now it doenst sound that bad but after a while i wasnt enjoying the game with 3 stardrakes. So i went back to more models on the board and lesser bigger point sinks. I do enjoy the game more now and with my current gamegroup people like to play games where they feel they can do more interactive stuff. The gav bomb is just 1 trick but on friendly games ill understand its not always fun to play against but in competive its the trick u probly need. Stormcast got a lot of wierd tricks thats not so fun to play against like anvils double tap 9 longstrikes. No one is having fun but we can do competive other stuf like liberators or other judicator shooting cause its just not enough damage 

[Sedraxis]

On the matter of SCE vs OBR.

The main weakness of OBR lies in their low movement and model quantity. SCE has the ability to take control early through deploying all over the map. If you can force them to split up you can pick their units off one by one.

OBR also shares our weakness to mortal wounds, so if you can Gavriel bomb/charge them with Evocators you can take out key pieces like Arkhan or other heroes. Same for Longstrikes.

Another thing is the Crawler, it shuts down when enemies get within 3" because of its minimum range, devoting one or 2 cheap units to that might be worthwhile.

[Nizrah]

6 hours ago, Sedraxis said:

On the matter of SCE vs OBR.

The main weakness of OBR lies in their low movement and model quantity. SCE has the ability to take control early through deploying all over the map. If you can force them to split up you can pick their units off one by one.

OBR also shares our weakness to mortal wounds, so if you can Gavriel bomb/charge them with Evocators you can take out key pieces like Arkhan or other heroes. Same for Longstrikes.

Another thing is the Crawler, it shuts down when enemies get within 3" because of its minimum range, devoting one or 2 cheap units to that might be worthwhile.

Slow? +3 to move for entire army? They can move 7+ d6 in first tune. Its enough to cover half of the table. Weakness to mortal wounds? 6+ on entire army and 5+ with spell. Evocators will do ****** againts 3+ full reroll and even if you deal like 10 mortals wounds he will resurect 6 models for free next turn :).

The only possible way to win with OB is to kill Heroes with longshots. Good luck with thats with recent nerf to hero phase range

[ledha]

23 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

Petrifex elites,

2x20 mortrek guard, 10 horse cavalry, 2 morghasts, arkhan the black, karakros, endles spell that marks a target for death.

 

Why did he played Karakros with petrifex elite ? His +1 save and +1 to hit buff doesn't work on them as far as i know

[armisael]

8 minutes ago, ledha said:

Why did he played Karakros with petrifex elite ? His +1 save and +1 to hit buff doesn't work on them as far as i know

They still get +1 to hit.

[Mark Williams]

4 hours ago, armisael said:

They still get +1 to hit.

Yes plus 1 hit and bonus CPs.

[Nizrah]

7 hours ago, ledha said:

Why did he played Karakros with petrifex elite ? His +1 save and +1 to hit buff doesn't work on them as far as i know

Becouse he is best force multiplayer in entire game. Gives you shittone of CP, hit very hard, very tought to kill, ressurect models for free, give -1 to hit just for lulz. 

[Joseph Mackay]

11 hours ago, ledha said:

Why did he played Karakros with petrifex elite ? His +1 save and +1 to hit buff doesn't work on them as far as i know

I had just finished building him and wanted to use him in a game. I’m still learning the army but at the moment I really can’t see a reason to use any Legion other than Petrifex Elite sadly. As for his command ability, the +1 to hit works regardless of legion but the +1 save will only affect himself if not a Mortis Phraetorian army

[crkhobbit]

On 12/28/2019 at 8:40 PM, Mark Williams said:

Arkansas teleported away due to some spell.

One of the best autocorrects I've ever seen.

[Maturin]

Where has Dorothy gone though ?

14 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

One of the best autocorrects I've ever seen.

 

[Scurvydog]

6 hours ago, Joseph Mackay said:

I had just finished building him and wanted to use him in a game. I’m still learning the army but at the moment I really can’t see a reason to use any Legion other than Petrifex Elite sadly. As for his command ability, the +1 to hit works regardless of legion but the +1 save will only affect himself if not a Mortis Phraetorian army

That is true, I only use him with is own legion in casual games with friends, as petrifex and Katakros will destroy any non competetive list almost regardless of what units you bring, nothing is really bad in that book.

Having both stormcast and a large OBR army now, I can say some of the best things against reapers are actually some of the tools available to Stormcast. Ranged is the best option to deal with Mortek guard, who is by far the toughest units per point from the OBR, but they can only reroll saves in the combat phase, so shooting and rend will deal with them, Celestar ballistas is a really good option and of course longstrikes.

As an elite army mortal wounds work well too and Evocators will be very point efficient. Evocators on Dracolines especially, so you can engage in your favor, outflank the mortek guards and hit whatever critical elite units the opponent has, if you can get the charge on Stalkers or a harvester, you will most likely kill it and cripple their damage output.

The Stardrake is a GREAT counter to OBR and their battleline especially, as eating units will always work well and you can choose to eat the Hekatos (champion) of the unit, for example Mortek guard require their hekatos to use the reroll save command and if no hero is close, they will also then lose the 6++ save and access to any other command like 1 rend from Petrifex. So any OBR player will be very scared of seeing a Stardrake on the table I can tell you that.

[Marzillius]

2 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

The Stardrake is a GREAT counter to OBR and their battleline especially, as eating units will always work well and you can choose to eat the Hekatos (champion) of the unit, for example Mortek guard require their hekatos to use the reroll save command and if no hero is close, they will also then lose the 6++ save and access to any other command like 1 rend from Petrifex. So any OBR player will be very scared of seeing a Stardrake on the table I can tell you that.

Won't the Hekatos be immediately brought back by the Reaper's ressurections? And the Stardrake, even if it eats the Hekatos, will just be killed by the Morteks the turn it goes in anyway.

[Nizrah]

16 minutes ago, Marzillius said:

Won't the Hekatos be immediately brought back by the Reaper's ressurections? And the Stardrake, even if it eats the Hekatos, will just be killed by the Morteks the turn it goes in anyway.

Exacly! Starkdrake will melt with -2  rend and this volume of attacks... Also they will just ressurect hektos X D

[Scurvydog]

Just now, Marzillius said:

Won't the Hekatos be immediately brought back by the Reaper's ressurections? And the Stardrake, even if it eats the Hekatos, will just be killed by the Morteks the turn it goes in anyway.

Immediately? No. Get killed by the mortek the turn it goes in? Only if you engage poorly. OBR can only bring back units in a few ways and of course being aware of these will also be key to victory. If the Mortek you want to engage are also supported by a harvester right next to them, you engaged poorly. The harvester is the only model which can bring back models outside of the hero phase, so shooting that as mentioned earlier is a good option, but ideally you should not be trying to brawl with a big unit guards with a harvester support. 

The other options OBR has only works in the hero phase, they have 1 wizard with an ability to heal or rez 3 wounds worth of models for 1 unit, this ability only works within 6" too. Katakros and Arkhan can bring back 3 for 3/4 units wholly within 24", and Nagash can do it boardwide for 4 units. Those are all very expensive units though and again important to note they will only do so in their own hero phase.

Of course it can all go south, as they are very tough regardless and sending in the Stardrake alone against a supported 20+ man mortek guard unit would not be wise. But still the stardrake does have good abilities against OBR, as the bite does not care about how tough they are and some ranged mortal wounds etc will all be beneficial. With a castellant support and running staunch defender, it should be able to deal with Mortek well enough and it should deal more damage than it takes.

If in doubt shootcast will still be a really good counter to OBR, they have no teleports and only a few really fast units, so you can always perfectly measure and plan ahead against them. Target priority being harvesters near Mortek and units of Stalkers. Stalkers does by far the most damage per point from OBR, so never underestimate them. Big units of guards with harvester support is clunky, unwieldy and not that fast by default, so if objectives allow, avoid them and engage other things.

[Mark Williams]

Expending a 500 point unit to try to deal with a 260pt unit, getting bogged down in multiple turns of combat and likely dying before you can kill the unit is a reall bad trade.

[Sedraxis]

17 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

Expending a 500 point unit to try to deal with a 260pt unit, getting bogged down in multiple turns of combat and likely dying before you can kill the unit is a reall bad trade.

Not when you consider that the 500 point unit does can do other stuff as well and the 260 point unit needs to be supported by resources and spells from other expensive units to stand a chance. And even then you are playing their strong suit (melee), theres still the option of shooting and only engaging in favorable melee combat.