Marcvs Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Errata and Commentary are now out Errata https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/c3e42c6e.pdf Commentary https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/58cba042.pdf (includes clarification on Longstrikes bonus range when shooting in the hero phase) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Marcvs said: Commentary https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/58cba042.pdf (includes clarification on Longstrikes bonus range when shooting in the hero phase) I'm really disappointed! Only the two drakes and dracoliens got a point reduction ? What the heck! Furthermore, tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Longstrikes can't shoot 30" in ALL hero phase ? IF so that's incredibly stupid! Yo bro, you see this unit ? it didn't move, but it can only shoot 24" right now. Yo bro, you see that unit ? It still didn't move, but now it can shoot 30" because "Shooting phase". "Insert Picard facepalm". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizrah Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Wow, they just killed shootcasts... You cant use 30" in any hero phase... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn de Bruin Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Marcvs said: Errata and Commentary are now out Errata https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/c3e42c6e.pdf Commentary https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/58cba042.pdf (includes clarification on Longstrikes bonus range when shooting in the hero phase) The change to Evocats is very welcomed. They might actually be somewhat competitive now. Stardrakes, without changes to the warscroll. Still not that good. Glad they clarified the longstrike ability, however I consider it a minor "nerf" No other changes? Wow.. that's dissapointing af and something I do not understand.. 😵 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedraxis Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Maturin said: I'm really disappointed! Only the two drakes and dracoliens got a point reduction ? What the heck! Furthermore, tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems that Longstrikes can't shoot 30" in ALL hero phase ? IF so that's incredibly stupid! Yo bro, you see this unit ? it didn't move, but it can only shoot 24" right now. Yo bro, you see that unit ? It still didn't move, but now it can shoot 30" because "Shooting phase". "Insert Picard facepalm". I believe the idea is that they spend their movement phase taking on the formation/aiming instead of moving, so it makes sense to me. Also the point reductions seem pretty cool, dracolines and big dragons have a nice role to fill in the army since they don't need the deepstrikes to get in position. Edited December 17, 2019 by Sedraxis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Re: Anvils Longstrikes. It’s because you must have a movement phase in order to meet the condition. The answer to whether or not you’ve moved yet in the hero phase is, “I don’t know yet,” not, “No.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzillius Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Man, that really sucks for me. Longstrikes lose 6" of range with this FAQ, but my Hurricane Raptors lose 33% of their damage in the hero phase and 17% damage output over all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Marzillius said: Hurricane Raptors lose 33% of their damage in the hero phase and 17% damage output over all. How come ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodges Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 40 minutes ago, Mark Williams said: Re: Anvils Longstrikes. It’s because you must have a movement phase in order to meet the condition. The answer to whether or not you’ve moved yet in the hero phase is, “I don’t know yet,” not, “No.” Our reading of this was right after all. Shame, would have been a nice buff. Dont think it kills the list though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzillius Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, Maturin said: How come ? I mean, they are not specifically mentioned in the FAQ, but I would presume that they wouldn't get their "don't move" bonus either as Longstrikes now don't, and their bonus is 3 extra shots per Raptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 In a world where they can release a warscroll like chaos warriors with 5 or 100 and have 5 liberators for 100 and go "this is fine" is made of pure madness. For the same warriors chaos warriors get: 32mm bases instead of 40mm. better weapon profiles (3+/3+), either reroll to hit or 5++ vs MWs, reroll saves when 10+ models, mark of chaos passive buffs. Retributors still at 200? They are so much worse than Evocators already it is not even funny and now kitties are at 260 too? What about Dracothian guards, they are still overcosted and completely unable to compete with Dracolines now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Scurvydog said: What about Dracothian guards, they are still overcosted and completely unable to compete with Dracolines now. Dracothians do shoot D3 MW per model. That's not to be underestimated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Marzillius said: I mean, they are not specifically mentioned in the FAQ, but I would presume that they wouldn't get their "don't move" bonus either as Longstrikes now don't, and their bonus is 3 extra shots per Raptor. If you SCion them, you don't have that problem, right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzillius Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Maturin said: If you SCion them, you don't have that problem, right ? Well, no, but then you don't get to shoot in the hero phase at all (you would if you cast Translocation on them first). And against some armies you need them on the board to move Aetherwings so you don't get alpha struck round 1 by Ironjawz/Slaanesh/FEC etc. But if I plan on scioning them then maybe I won't need to use the Vexillor who is otherwise mandatory. It could possibly be a thing, I'll try making a list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, Maturin said: Dracothians do shoot D3 MW per model. That's not to be underestimated. They shoot that on a 4+, så 50/50 to do an average of 2 MW equals 1 MW per battle round on average. Evocators does 1 average each combat phase besides doing far far more direct damage too in combat, and are faster, wizards too although 1 less save but you get 15 wounds in a unit for 260 intead of 10 wounds for 240. The Dracolines mount traits are also far better than anything else with the +1 to hit aura. The biggest discrepancy is still Evocators vs any of the paladins though, the output difference compared to points is out of this world silly. Same for sequitors just being an overall vast improvement to Liberators, but at least the point difference there is a bit more in line as well as core battleline, while there is no point in the paladin units ever next to evocators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Scurvydog said: They shoot that on a 4+, så 50/50 to do an average of 2 MW equals 1 MW per battle round on average. Evocators does 1 average each combat phase besides doing far far more direct damage too in combat, and are faster, wizards too although 1 less save but you get 15 wounds in a unit for 260 intead of 10 wounds for 240. The Dracolines mount traits are also far better than anything else with the +1 to hit aura. The biggest discrepancy is still Evocators vs any of the paladins though, the output difference compared to points is out of this world silly. Same for sequitors just being an overall vast improvement to Liberators, but at least the point difference there is a bit more in line as well as core battleline, while there is no point in the paladin units ever next to evocators. Fair points. But add a Drakesworn templar and you have your Dracothian hit on 3+ for MW. Plus the Drakesworn's ability to do D3Mw to D6 units on the battlefield ! That's potent, right @Turragor So far my 6 man desolators didn't disappoint me. Especially when coupled with a castellant or staunch defender, and or in terrain :D. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizrah Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Maturin said: Fair points. But add a Drakesworn templar and you have your Dracothian hit on 3+ for MW. Plus the Drakesworn's ability to do D3Mw to D6 units on the battlefield ! That's potent, right @Turragor So far my 6 man desolators didn't disappoint me. Especially when coupled with a castellant or staunch defender, and or in terrain :D. Yea and you play 1000 points for 7 models Good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Nizrah said: Yea and you play 1000 points for 7 models Good luck Doesn't matter when you pepper MW across the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, Maturin said: Doesn't matter when you pepper MW across the board Average output of the drake is 3 units hit, with 1,5 units being hit for 2 mw, so 3 mw output in a half random fashion on a 420 pts model... A charging stonehorn for the same points (20 less actually) dishes out over twice that in mortal wounds with the new mount trait and charge bonus, while doing 3 times the damage in combat. I know what you are saying and it is one of my own lists with dracothian guards and stardrake general, but it is very inferior to similar units from newer tomes for the pts tag. The Stardrake can't even fight any other behemoths, it cant bite or hit them with the tail at all, while the claws hit like a 100 pts hero. It is really uphill with these guys, despite looking super cool. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcvs Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 50 minutes ago, Marzillius said: I mean, they are not specifically mentioned in the FAQ, but I would presume that they wouldn't get their "don't move" bonus either as Longstrikes now don't, and their bonus is 3 extra shots per Raptor. Now here's an interesting question of interpretation. I will start by saying that I personally think that Hurricanes should be covered by the same errata (interpretation 1 below) but still for the sake of discussion: Intereptation 1 (analogy): the warscroll triggers are so similar that you extend the errata to hurricanes (GW just forgot to mention them) Interpretation 2: as GW should be perfectly aware of the existnce of the Hurricanes and their similarity with Longstrikes, the very fact that they explicitly mention only the latter implies that they did not want the errata to cover the former Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 So they did clarify this to the intended usage, but no mention of Hurricanes is weird Quote Q: If I use the Anvils of the Heldenhammer ‘Heroes of Another Age’ command ability on a friendly Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows unit in my hero phase, are they treated as not having moved for the purposes of their ‘Longshot’ ability? A: No. The Evo errata seems to mean they can only do their arc once? I don't know how SCE even make units fight twice in a phase anyway though so... Quote Celestial Lightning Arc Change the second sentence of the rule to:‘In addition, after this unit has been picked to fight for the first time in a phase, after all of its attacks have been resolved, you can pick 1 enemy unit within 3" of this unit.’ This is all a bit :// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stus67 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I've always been using Longstrikes as 24" in the hero phase since I thought the wording was already pretty clear that they don't get it since they had no movement phase prior so nothing changed for me there. It would have been nice to see it swing in the other direction though. With the points drops to dracolines I'm thinking about dusting my stormcast off and trying those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said: The Evo errata seems to mean they can only do their arc once? I don't know how SCE even make units fight twice in a phase anyway though so... This is all a bit :// IIRC one of the Cities of Sigmar command abilities lets them fight twice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feadair Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I have been planning to build the following army as my next project. Given the new point changes, I will have 80 points left over. Where should I spend them? Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators LEADERS Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220) - General - Spell : Celestial Blades - Mount Trait : Pride Leader Knight-Heraldor (100) Lord-Castellant (120) Lord-Ordinator (140) UNITS 5 x Liberators (100) 5 x Liberators (100) 5 x Liberators (100) 6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600) ->520 - 4 x Grandstaves - Lore of Invigoration : Celestial Blades WAR MACHINES Celestar Ballista (110) Celestar Ballista (110) Celestar Ballista (110) Celestar Ballista (110) ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS Chronomantic Cogs (80) 2000 points -> 1920 points My instinct is simply to upgrade one unit of Liberators (100) to a unit of Judicators (160). The total cost would be 1980 points. The reasoning is that I would then have six ranged units (Ordinator, 4x Ballistas, Judicators), which would normally be deployed in the Sky. These would drop behind buffed Dracolines and take out any screens or problematic Heroes, allowing the Dracolines to charge in for full effect. What do you think? Any better uses for the 80 points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarRotke Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, AdamR said: IIRC one of the Cities of Sigmar command abilities lets them fight twice. I guess that makes sense then, I have been wondering how CoS would affect our unit rules.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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