Requizen Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Stardrake at 500 is much better. It's still pillowfisted and dice-y, but that's a quite affordable fast anvil, especially with the drops to Dracoths in GHB19 and Dracolines now, there's potentially to run a fast Stardrake + mounted hitting unit type setup. Stardrake + Fulmis + Skink allies was nearly a thing in 2018, though admittedly that was before the acceleration of power level with FEC, Slaanesh, Skaven, etc. I'd like to test it out and see what happens. I don't think it's broken or anything, but it might be at least viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestantpants Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Is it confirmed that those are the only changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeElectrid Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) I had lowered my expectations massively and I’m still disappointed. No summer nerfs reverted even though it was acknowledged on Twitter that they were 6 months out of date at the time. Everything that was overpriced before remains overpriced (Tauralon, Celestant Prime, etc). Theres still no way to compete with the stronger books from the last year. Nice drop on Dracolines though. Glad I didn’t get Desolators after all. Well I’m off to play Bonerepears until some Elves drop. Edited December 16, 2019 by PrimeElectrid 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maturin Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 minute ago, PrimeElectrid said: Nice drop on Dracolines though. Glad I didn’t get Desolators after all. Desolators are very powerful though, and hard to remove! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 If these are the only changes, then theyve sorta of missed the mark again, unless we re about to get a new tome. Vandus, Astreia, Celestant Prime, Dracoths. The absolute travesty that is the Stormcast Paladin range. Not to mention the out of date sequitor nerfs. At the least im hoping for sequitors changed to ALL hit rolls and save rolls as opposed to just failed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestantpants Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 If those are the only changes...then is GW keeping stormcast kinda bad on purpose? Or do they honestly and seriously not see what the problem is? The only reason I could see for doing it on purpose would be to appease all the loud complainers that hate the fact that stormcasts exist period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorra Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) Everyone crying the sky is falling because we've seen 3 non-official points drops. Just calmly wait, we may see more yet. (Please don't prove me wrong, GW...) EDIT: I have been proven wrong. Oh well, STARDRAKE! Edited December 16, 2019 by Siorra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Well the Azyr app on iOS is updated, looks like these are all the changes. Too bad, but it opens up some fun lists with thundercats. Write to GW and hope for a new tome people! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vakarian Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Those three points drops are now reflected in the Azyr app; I haven’t seen any others in it. At least Stardrake and Dracoline lists can fit a little more support in now. I’m somewhat excited to try out a 6x Dracoline list. Very disappointed the unnecessary Sequitor nerf didn’t get reversed though. Their points cost remains ridiculous in comparison to new books. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestantpants Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 It really, really just seems intentional at this point. I mean, How can they not realize how poor everything is? They themselves admitted that the sequitors and evocators nerfs were out of date right? Why would they change them back then and then in this faq leave slaanesh, of all things, the way it is? What could the reason be? Is it really just being completely out of touch with the reality of the army? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schwabbele Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 Tin foil hat - battleforce has evo dracos in it , battleforce isn’t really selling well , evo dracos get point decrease 😂 ...? Profit? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, schwabbele said: Tin foil hat - battleforce has evo dracos in it , battleforce isn’t really selling well , evo dracos get point decrease 😂 ...? Profit? Oh i knew dracoline changes were coming the minute i saw the battleforce. 6 cats in one battleforce means they didnt sell that many of them, probably because they were too overcosted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, Celestantpants said: It really, really just seems intentional at this point. I mean, How can they not realize how poor everything is? They themselves admitted that the sequitors and evocators nerfs were out of date right? Why would they change them back then and then in this faq leave slaanesh, of all things, the way it is? What could the reason be? Is it really just being completely out of touch with the reality of the army? honestly evocators at 220 are sorta ok, its just that we lack paladin removal cus theyre also at that range as opposed to the 140-160 range like they should be. Sequitors should never have been at 130, the new Mortek Guard are basically what sequitors hope to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, jhamslam said: honestly evocators at 220 are sorta ok, its just that we lack paladin removal cus theyre also at that range as opposed to the 140-160 range like they should be. Sequitors should never have been at 130, the new Mortek Guard are basically what sequitors hope to be. Heck, with ironjaws brutes at FREAKING 140 i'm not even sure evocators deserve to be at 220 anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, jhamslam said: honestly evocators at 220 are sorta ok, its just that we lack paladin removal cus theyre also at that range as opposed to the 140-160 range like they should be. Sequitors should never have been at 130, the new Mortek Guard are basically what sequitors hope to be. Excepting the fact thata unit of 5 sequitors gets 11 attacks total, and a unit of mortrek guard gets 21 attacks, the stats seem roughly comparable to me. I mean if you add in the great maces, the sequitors probably pump out a little bit more damage on average, plus they can choose to re-roll attacks instead of shields. I dunno it seems to me like they are at least comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mark Williams said: Excepting the fact thata unit of 5 sequitors gets 11 attacks total, and a unit of mortrek guard gets 21 attacks, the stats seem roughly comparable to me. I mean if you add in the great maces, the sequitors probably pump out a little bit more damage on average, plus they can choose to re-roll attacks instead of shields. I dunno it seems to me like they are at least comparable. Morteks are more resilient (reroll saves, not only failed and a 6++), count as 10 and not 5 on objectives, and have a close attack profile (slightly worse), but are 10 and not 5. Also, 25 mm base > 40 mm base. Also, stormcast reroll save work only if you have shields. If you have 5 sequitors with 3 maces and 2 shields, you'll loose your reroll save after the first two losses, except if you accept to put wounds on your maces and then lower your damage output by a LOT. Even if the sequitors had twice more attacks than their current profile, i'd argue they aren't that better in comparison to mortek. Edited December 16, 2019 by ledha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, ledha said: Heck, with ironjaws brutes at FREAKING 140 i'm not even sure evocators deserve to be at 220 anymore Well consider that evocators have better bravery, movement, the same base weapon damage output, but are also wizards and deal an average 5 mortal wounds for 5 guys on top, this point difference is not that hard to understand. People talking about sequitors, while Liberators are the ones truly suffering, just look at the new chaos warrior warscroll, they are just better stronger liberators for the same points, which Squistors are as well, but they are only conditional battleline and costed differently. The big bases is also a disadvantage and with Sequitors out, it is hard to find the spot for Liberators, same for the paladins really, with the sacrosanct being more flexible, faster and having wizards, the warrior stormcasts should really have the heavy hitters or stronger armor. Just reducing points does not seem to be a fix here, as Liberators should really not be less than 100 for 5, they should be elite warriors after all, I'd rather see them more expensive but far stronger. The fix could be something like Liberators getting a 3+ save and count for 2 models each, which would really double down on a specific role in the army, which they would do best, bringing hard to remove model count on top of objectives and holding them, which sounds like the sort of stuff a Liberator would do. Paladins should simply hit harder, with the power creep there is no reason for them not have stronger weapons, attacks or a 3+ save to make them these walking fortresses compared to their caster counterparts. Judicators are sort of ok, but could do with at least a reduction to 140 pts for a lazy fix. Wishful thinking for sure, the stormcast tome really is one of the worst internally balanced GW books I have seen in modern times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarii Orientalis Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I recall anti-stormcast sentiment occassionally showing up mostly from casual players in the past. Is this still the issue nowadays after cities of sigmar, orruk warclans and ossiarch release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Krungharr Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 I just hope I can still run the big Vanguard Auxiliary Chamber! I'm still assembling it....Fingers crossed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 54 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said: I recall anti-stormcast sentiment occassionally showing up mostly from casual players in the past. Is this still the issue nowadays after cities of sigmar, orruk warclans and ossiarch release? At the casual "local store" level, stormcast are viewed as the bully army that people hate to play against, and they are seen as kinda OP and people are happy when they get smashed. If I play there, the only people who come to watch the game are only wanting to see if I'll lose with them. I've encountered a little bit of this at tournaments as well. They are supposed to be the good guys, but in general I feel like people think of them as "bad guys" outside of he lore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestantpants Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Why does the anti stormcast sentiment exist though? They haven't been truly strong in a long time. It really does seem as if gw is caving, at least a bit, to anti stormcast sentiment, so it kinda sucks that people seem to be hating on them for no good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Celestantpants said: Why does the anti stormcast sentiment exist though? They haven't been truly strong in a long time. It really does seem as if gw is caving, at least a bit, to anti stormcast sentiment, so it kinda sucks that people seem to be hating on them for no good reason. My guess is this: 1) At the low point, casual game level (500-1000 pts), stormcast are very strong because other armies can't fit in all their bells and whistles into their lists. Additionally, they are a bit of a noob friendly army at low point games, as their units are fairly silo-oriented. They just kind of do what they do without needing to combo off of other things. Other lists can be more complex or they need the bigger units to make them really effective. Most newer players haven't developed their armies this much at the introduction level. So stormcast are viewed as too strong and/or always winning, etc... 2) At the high end, the only stormcasts lists that win have to essentially resort to some "cheesy" tactic, such as fighting/shooting twice in the hero phase, or getting a guaranteed charge off. Something along those lines. Basically neither type of game results in a good experience, and people over time have developed a collectively bad opinion of the army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhamslam Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, Celestantpants said: Why does the anti stormcast sentiment exist though? They haven't been truly strong in a long time. It really does seem as if gw is caving, at least a bit, to anti stormcast sentiment, so it kinda sucks that people seem to be hating on them for no good reason. Pub Games Simply put , going toe to toe against SCE is a weird experience for a lot of people. Imagine buying like two start collecting boxes of idk skeletons or ironjaws. you play a 1000 pt game, you face a 5 man evocator unit, they wreck your 20 skeletons or 10 ardboyz like it was nothing. Or imagine a starter 2k game, and gavriel drops from the sky, you didnt position correctly and 10 evocators are wrecking face. So it makes em seem op, until you actually start reading tomes and adding allegiance abilities, spells, etc, just starter SCE vs anything, Warscroll on Warscroll, SCE kicks butt. That coupled with being the poster boys of Age of sigmar (like marines are in 40k) and you get SCE hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucur Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I also think there still is the sentiment that SCE stand for the destruction of the beloved old world. I know of at least two former fantasy players who didn't follow to AoS who are constantly lurking reddit and co just to gripe how everything sucks these days. Sigmar have mercy on their poor souls 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martijn de Bruin Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) mistake, nevermind. Edited December 17, 2019 by Martijn de Bruin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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