AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Maturin]

4 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Met hallowheart and khorne and won so 1 more win and I've met my goal which will be nice! Ofc I could just lose 3 now 

Good to know! I was supposed to play SCE against Orruk Ironjaws today but decided  to go Hallowheart, and the magic + 20 PG were really strong. I finally won despite a T1 charge of his Beefed up Maw Crusha and 6 gore guntas in the PG and handgunners behind them.
Did you get first turn against the Hallowheart player ? What was his list ?

[Turragor]

7 hours ago, Maturin said:

Good to know! I was supposed to play SCE against Orruk Ironjaws today but decided  to go Hallowheart, and the magic + 20 PG were really strong. I finally won despite a T1 charge of his Beefed up Maw Crusha and 6 gore guntas in the PG and handgunners behind them.
Did you get first turn against the Hallowheart player ? What was his list ?

He took first turn. Hallowheart with gotrek hurricanum and 30 greatswords. 

Played match 3 against the best of the players who took deepkin and gotrek (he beat a very good player with anvilstrike the previous round). Was on the wargamer stream too! 

One of the worst match ups I could get probably. I played wrong here and there. So a big ol loss

/edit - watching the replay back on honest wargamer, I do not know why I moved the LCoSD and Prime forward to threaten mid objectives at all. Should have cleaned up some eels in my territory. I think I was worried for the double (I won initiative r2 anyway).

We'll call it "first time streaming table jitters" lol

Hope for a win tomorrow and I will have reached my 3 win goal.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Turragor

[Evantas]

19 minutes ago, xking said:

What did you guys actually think about the Knight-Vexillor? Do you think his Banner should have an aura ability? 

I've also been looking at that Lord-veritant warscroll, and I don't think he is that great of a anti-wizard. How would you change this warscroll?

Vexillor seems overcosted now after the bump in points. I think the Knight Heraldor or Lord Relictor now largely supplanted his role in SCE armies. 

Veritant feels quite terrible, it is so easy to avoid his abilities given that he is so slow as well. Again, the Lord Relictor trumps him for less. 

Buffing him could be done in 3 ways.

 

1) improving his ability to counter spells

Allow him to unbind with a +2 bonus innately, gryphhound adds another +1.  

Alternatively, allow him to unbind twice with no bonus is good. 

Another possible one would be to grant spell resistance (like the Hallowed Knights ability) for himself and perhaps a small radius around him. 

 2) improving his ability to kill casters

Getting more attacks and/or allowing a 6 on a hit/wound to inflict MW on casters. 

Sanction should hit on a 3+, not 4+. 

3) improving his range and  mobility. 

His range for Sanction and Bound in Service should be at least 9" radius.

I think allowing him to both run and charge casters innately, increase his base movement to 6", or have some 'once per battle' thing that allows him to reach casters faster would be necessary. 

In summary, at least 1 or 2 of the above should be implemented to make the Veritant a more compelling choice imo. 

[Turragor]

19 hours ago, Turragor said:

He took first turn. Hallowheart with gotrek hurricanum and 30 greatswords. 

Played match 3 against the best of the players who took deepkin and gotrek (he beat a very good player with anvilstrike the previous round). Was on the wargamer stream too! 

One of the worst match ups I could get probably. I played wrong here and there. So a big ol loss

/edit - watching the replay back on honest wargamer, I do not know why I moved the LCoSD and Prime forward to threaten mid objectives at all. Should have cleaned up some eels in my territory. I think I was worried for the double (I won initiative r2 anyway).

We'll call it "first time streaming table jitters" lol

Hope for a win tomorrow and I will have reached my 3 win goal.

Match 1 today was hallowheart with hurricanum and 50 sisters of the watch. Tough. Only a minor win. Blood and glory is a bad scenario for my list I think in terms of getting that major 

Annnd match 5 was the nastiest flesh-eater courts list with two Kings on terrorgheists. Major Loss there on total conquest. 

3-0-2 in the the end so I'm happy with that! 

Think the list needs a tweak. I'll see if I keep a similar theme when I play stormcast next. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Turragor

[simakover]

Hello, have some models form Shadespire(all stromcasts models), can i with some minor investment make a 1000pts list? not takin they as bands, but straight units( buying some models to compelete units from ebay)

[Nizrah]

How do we play vs OB? Raptors doesnt work... -3 to hit sucks... -1 from Katakros -1 from terain -1 from LoS

[Marzillius]

I also played at Krigsluntan, I ended up at 18th place out of 92 and was the best performing Stormcast player. But that's also because I didn't face the most cheesy lists either. I'll write up a small tournament report here. I played the following list:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Lord-Castellant (120)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
- Artefact: Soulthief
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
6 x Desolators (600)
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (420)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)
 

Match 1 vs Skaven: Focal Points. He played 80 Plague Monks, 60 Clanrats, 3 Ratling Guns, a Screaming Bell, a Plague Furnace, 15 Acolytes and an Arch Warlock. He made a big mistake in his deployment, putting the Acolytes inside a big piece of Overgrown terrain. This ment I couldn't shoot at them, but I went up next to the terrainpiece with my Desolators, meaning his Acolytes couldn't get within 1" of them, and thus couldn't shoot themselves. The Hurricanes melted a Monk unit, and then he charged my Desolators with a Clanrat unit, so I could pile into his Acolytes with them. They died. The Acolytes that is. Then it was just clean-up. I lost 3 Aetherwings and won a Major and scoring all secondaries (which were 4 agendas in all games).

Match 2 vs Tzeentch: Starstrike. The loathed Changehost with I hate playing against. He alpha-struck my army with a bunch of spells round 1, in my turn I achieved both my secondaries and then conceded. I was not going to win that stuff, and I don't want to play against Changehost anymore. Lovely bloke though! Major loss but with achieved secondaries.

Match 3 vs Seraphon: Battle for the Pass. Thunderquake Cohort list with Lord Kroak. One of the tightest games I ever fought, but it was only close because I played like a human garbage can. I got first turn, failed Translocation and didn't want to use the banner yet so I did nothing. He moved up and did like 1 wound to a Desolator. He then took the double turn and managed to kill a Desolator. Not a very good double turn. Then I moved up and charged into his Dinosaur castle, killing the Astrolith Bearer. Then I got the double and shot his Engine of the Gods to pieces, which enabled me to kill the Bastiladons. Here I made the game-ending error, forgetting to pile in my Desolators into his home objective, so I missed 4 points. He then teleported Kroak behind my objective and took it with summoned skinks. Then a bunch of failed dice rolls happened for me, which allowed him to take my point again in round 4. Then it came down to the initiative roll for round 5, the one who wins the roll will win the game. I lost it, and lost the game. I damn will remember pile-ins to take objectives from now on.

Match 4 vs Ogor Mawtribes: Blood and Glory. Thunderbellies list with three Stonehorns of different varietys and 12 Mournfangs. He took first turn and moved up, in my turn I built a fortress of Liberators and Aetherwings around my Hurricanes and Desolators. I shot 3 Mournfangs to death with the Hurricanes. He got initiative but had to fight birds and Liberators and nothing juicy. In my turn I killed his Frostlord, Huskard and Mournfangs with double Heldenhammer CAs and regular shooting/fighting. Then I got the double and reduced his army down to 2 models, at which point he conceded. Max win for me.

Match 5 vs Gloomspite Gits: Total Conquest. 120 Stabbas, 3 Shamans, Skragrott, an Arachnarok and a Mangler Squig Loonboss. I got to go first and killed half a Stabba unit with the Hurricanes since it was out of range of his Loonshrine and he had no CP, so they were not battleshock immune. In his turn he magiced two Hurricanes away and fought birds and Libs with his two monsters. I won initiative and killed both monsters with the remaining Hurricanes, and charging the Desolators into a 60-man Stabba unit standing by his Loonshrine. It took them 5 combat rounds with the -1 to hit from the netters, but they killed them to a man eventually and took one of his points. He then got a double turn and killed all my Hurricanes, and taking one of my points. But I had held that point one turn longer, and basically all his stuff was dead. So I was leading by a point he would never get, so he conceded. Major victory with 3 secondaries scored for me.

 

It went very well I think, and will hopefully spark some discussion about the merits of Hurricane Raptors. The Hurricanes are technically better than Longstrikes against all targets (apart from 2+ save) and are HUGELY better against horde units. Their shorter range means they are not good at sniping heroes since a good player can just deploy a screen >9" away from their hero, and now I can't shoot them. But they are better at shooting down regular old units than the Longstrikes are, and if all your units are dead what are you going to buff with your heroes? Longstrikes will probably be nerfed to, but Hurricanes will probably not, so Hurricanes will probably be the next meta-pick for Stormcast. They are also extraordinarily good at killing Gotrek. The Desolators are just flat out better than Evocators are too. Of course the Evocators are cheaper, but with the points that the cheaper Hurricanes open up, Desolators are the better choice. They can take a beating, they are faster and their MW output is ranged. They were the definitive MVP of the list. For instance, vs Gloomspite a unit of Evocators could never have destroyed that 60-man Stabba unit, since they can actually be killed by the Stabbas. My 2+ reroll 1 save Desolators literally cannot be killed by no-rend attacks, and could thus wade happily though Stabbas and Plague Monks alike. The Vexillor is unfortunately mandatory if you run Hurricanes. If you fail Translocation the Hurricanes can't shoot round 1, so the Vexillor is there to teleport them in the end of the movement phase so they can at least shoot in the shooting phase. If I didn't have to take him I would rather take an Azyros, but I can't unfortunately. As a side-note, the event was won by a Syll'Eske host list which generated a gorillion depravity points. He literally had 163 depravity in his last game apparently. That ****** has to be nuked from orbit by the rules team, what were they thinking?

[Mark Williams]

Yes the depravity stuff is ridiculous. My only guess is they have some really weird internal meta in their play testing department.

[Mark Williams]

On the subject of hurricane raptors, I had a theory a while back that an entire army of them might actually do pretty good. I just don’t have the resources to build that sort of army at the moment and test it out.

[Storm1]

I have a quick question, I just got a D&D reincarnated wilderness tiles, and I was wondering, could you use them instead of a terrain mat in warhammer age of sigmar?

Thanks in advance.

[Evantas]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:18 PM, xking said:

How would you improve the Vexillor?

Again, it's up to GW, although

1) I'd be happy just for the points to drop to 110, or 100. 

2) Vexillor to give a +1 to run and charge bonus to all friendly units affected by his banner as well.  

[Evantas]

15 hours ago, Storm1 said:

I have a quick question, I just got a D&D reincarnated wilderness tiles, and I was wondering, could you use them instead of a terrain mat in warhammer age of sigmar?

Thanks in advance.

Outside of competitions, I think most will be fine with it. Just check in with your opponent and have an agreement. 

[Evantas]

On 11/25/2019 at 2:24 AM, simakover said:

Hello, have some models form Shadespire(all stromcasts models), can i with some minor investment make a 1000pts list? not takin they as bands, but straight units( buying some models to compelete units from ebay)

If you really want to find a use for the Shadespire models, what I did is that I got a ETB liberators box of 3 liberators, I used the hammer and the shield figures to make up a liberator unit and made the Greatsword Guy my Knight-heraldor. 

That would take you to 200pts.

Unfortunately, any investment won't be "minor" to get just those 3 models up to a 1k list. 

My suggestion is to look into the Christmas battle box. 

[Lucur]

The christmas battlebox doesn't even give you a legal army unless you build a Lord Arcanum from the Dracolines...

[simakover]

1 hour ago, Evantas said:

If you really want to find a use for the Shadespire models, what I did is that I got a ETB liberators box of 3 liberators, I used the hammer and the shield figures to make up a liberator unit and made the Greatsword Guy my Knight-heraldor. 

That would take you to 200pts.

Unfortunately, any investment won't be "minor" to get just those 3 models up to a 1k list. 

My suggestion is to look into the Christmas battle box. 

thanks for advices but im not have only 3 models. im have next:

3 models form steelheart(1 with sword, 1 liberatir, 1 with great hammer)

3 models from farstriders(all 3 with hand crossbow)

3 models form cursebreakers(2 mages + knight-incantor)

3 models from dreadfane(with mauls)

[Xeperi]

If you did field them as Averon Stormsire & his Cursebreakers, The Farstriders, and Steelheart's Champions that's 500pts even.  No warscroll yet for Ironsoul's Condemnors per se.  Downside of using them as the warband warscrolls is that none of them count as battleline even though the Champions are Liberators. 

If you were to use them as generics and flesh out the Evocators from 2 to 5 and the other 3 units from 3 to 5, you'd have one battleline unit (the Liberators) and a total of 700pts.  From there you have a lot of options.  If you got a Lord-Aquilor the Vanguard-Hunters count as battleline, or if you got any version of a Lord-Arcanum the Sequitors count as battleline.  If you just keep the Knight-Incantor to be your general, or get a different general, you'll need another unit of Liberators or of Judicators to be your second battleline unit.

[Evantas]

42 minutes ago, simakover said:

thanks for advices but im not have only 3 models. im have next:

3 models form steelheart(1 with sword, 1 liberatir, 1 with great hammer)

3 models from farstriders(all 3 with hand crossbow)

3 models form cursebreakers(2 mages + knight-incantor)

3 models from dreadfane(with mauls)

Oh. That makes things slightly different! Just get a Soul Wars Stormcast half!

 

That gives you 

2 units of sequitors (8 Soul wars + 2 from Dreadfane)  -> battleline

1 unit of evocators (3 Soul wars + 2 Cursebreakers)

1 lord arcanum on gryph charger (Soul Wars) -> general

1 knight incantor (use either the Soul Wars or Cursebreakers knight incantor)

2 units of castigators (5 from Soul Wars + use one of the Farstriders as a proxy) OR (preferred) proxy as 1 unit of crossbow Judicators

= 1000pts flat

 

It's not great admittedly (Castigators suck), but it's good for casual games. 

 

[Talas]

Would it be ok to create specific threads about how to fight other armies with SCEs? There are some very good posts about it lost in this thread.

[jhamslam]

1 hour ago, Talas said:

Would it be ok to create specific threads about how to fight other armies with SCEs? There are some very good posts about it lost in this thread.

dont want other people to know how we beat them yo

[Talas]

3 hours ago, jhamslam said:

dont want other people to know how we beat them yo

Oh, good point!

[OIF4IDVET]

lol they’ve all prob figured out our only viable things are the longstrike etc lists by this point

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

On a serious note, what do fellow players think Stormcast's forte is? 

 

As of now, I would not hesitate to call Stormcast generic battleline(liberators and judicators) as worthless. Liberators, possibly the only generic battleline ever taken in competitive games, have neither hitting power nor defensive merits. In terms of the former, there are plenty of factions with amazing close combat capabilities. Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin, Cities of Sigmar, Mawtribes, Orruk Warclans, to name but a few. In terms of defensive stats, liberators have neither good saves and/or "ignore wounds on ~+" abilities nor they bring additional bodies through low points per wound. Liberators are only taken because Judicators are overpriced for their ranged damage output.

 

Sequitors are much better than aforementioned units, but still pale in comparison to battlelines of other factions. Idoneth Deepkin have Morsarr Guard, Mawtribes Stonehorns, flesh eater court their terrorgheists and so on. The existence of counter-intuitive and out-of-date "re-roll failed save rolls" means Sequitors are still very vulerable to attacks with rend. Not to mention mortals wounds and abilities that activate at the start of opponents'  combat phase literally melt Sequitors like butter.

 

For non-battleline units, Sacrosanct units bar Castigators are decent but still pale comparison to what many other factions can bring. Evocators on foot are expensive, slow, and still melt when they get charged by dedicated enemy melee unit. Using screens have limits because Stormcasts can bring so few bodies without the inclusion of allies. Even then, basic Stormcast units are too costly to include sufficient amount of expendable screens. Mounted Evocators are even more expensive, prone to even non-rend shooting(damage 5 ossiarch catapults for example), and are still vulnerable to "Always Strike First" abilities. Ballistas require serious investment and it is almost mandatory to deploy them dangerously close to the enemy units to maximise their potentials. Even then, their number of attacks are too random to rely on.

 

As for non-Sacrosanct units, I think none are worth mentioning except longstrikes, aetherwings and desolators. The desolators belong to an exception only because other Extremis units are either comparatively overpriced. For the magic, artefacts, behemoths......Let me say the only time I would take Stormcast artefact is when I need to pick a specific stormhost to unlock command abilities. And I only take two Stormcast wizards, lord-arcanum and knight-incantor,  to bring battleline Sequitors and auto-unbind ability, not because of the spells. The only useful spell I see is one of the Evocators' spells that allows me to re-roll charge rolls. Stardrakes are too expensive for either their abysmal close combat effectiveness, random meteor attacks, and small bonus to casting rolls. It is durable when kitted properly, but that's it. If there is but a single clanrat or gobbo standing next to the Stardrake, it cannot even claim objectives. As for non-behemoth heroes, when was the last time you took lord-celestants, knight-venator, lord-exorcist,  lord-veritant, knight-questor?

 

But surely, the Scions of the Storm gives great manoeuvrability, shouldn't it? Well, I would rather prefer command abilities or spells that allow extra movements rather than an allegiance ability that cannot be combined with spells or other abilities activated before the end of movement phase. And if we look closer, there are surprisingly large number of armies who could put powerful units as reserves or teleport them to other part of the board. Idoneth Deepkin, Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, Skaven, Orruk Warclans, and even Seraphon without their 2.0 battletome. Scions of the Storm is also one of only two allegiance abilities that are outright denied in a specific mission, Total Commitment.

 

I might be too pessimistic regarding the current status of Stormcast, but I can think of only seraphon, nighthaunt and kharadron as factions that perform worse than Stormcast in terms of tournament win rate if we consult AoS stats compile by Honest Wargamer. Two of which do not have 2.0 battletome, and one of which earned its battletome at the same time Stormcast battletome was released. I can only think of Anvils of Heldenhammer Longstrikes as the only remarkably strong element in the battletome. And even then it struggles to achieve 5-0 or even 4-1 constantly in multiple tournaments as far as I know. Do we need a revamp on our battletome? Or are there missing gems in our book?

[Raffonerd]

4 minutes ago, Sagittarii Orientalis said:

On a serious note, what do fellow players think Stormcast's forte is? 

 

As of now, I would not hesitate to call Stormcast generic battleline(liberators and judicators) as worthless. Liberators, possibly the only generic battleline ever taken in competitive games, have neither hitting power nor defensive merits. In terms of the former, there are plenty of factions with amazing close combat capabilities. Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth Deepkin, Cities of Sigmar, Mawtribes, Orruk Warclans, to name but a few. In terms of defensive stats, liberators have neither good saves and/or "ignore wounds on ~+" abilities nor they bring additional bodies through low points per wound. Liberators are only taken because Judicators are overpriced for their ranged damage output.

 

Sequitors are much better than aforementioned units, but still pale in comparison to battlelines of other factions. Idoneth Deepkin have Morsarr Guard, Mawtribes Stonehorns, flesh eater court their terrorgheists and so on. The existence of counter-intuitive and out-of-date "re-roll failed save rolls" means Sequitors are still very vulerable to attacks with rend. Not to mention mortals wounds and abilities that activate at the start of opponents'  combat phase literally melt Sequitors like butter.

 

For non-battleline units, Sacrosanct units bar Castigators are decent but still pale comparison to what many other factions can bring. Evocators on foot are expensive, slow, and still melt when they get charged by dedicated enemy melee unit. Using screens have limits because Stormcasts can bring so few bodies without the inclusion of allies. Even then, basic Stormcast units are too costly to include sufficient amount of expendable screens. Mounted Evocators are even more expensive, prone to even non-rend shooting(damage 5 ossiarch catapults for example), and are still vulnerable to "Always Strike First" abilities. Ballistas require serious investment and it is almost mandatory to deploy them dangerously close to the enemy units to maximise their potentials. Even then, their number of attacks are too random to rely on.

 

As for non-Sacrosanct units, I think none are worth mentioning except longstrikes, aetherwings and desolators. The desolators belong to an exception only because other Extremis units are either comparatively overpriced. For the magic, artefacts, behemoths......Let me say the only time I would take Stormcast artefact is when I need to pick a specific stormhost to unlock command abilities. And I only take two Stormcast wizards, lord-arcanum and knight-incantor,  to bring battleline Sequitors and auto-unbind ability, not because of the spells. The only useful spell I see is one of the Evocators' spells that allows me to re-roll charge rolls. Stardrakes are too expensive for either their abysmal close combat effectiveness, random meteor attacks, and small bonus to casting rolls. It is durable when kitted properly, but that's it. If there is but a single clanrat or gobbo standing next to the Stardrake, it cannot even claim objectives. As for non-behemoth heroes, when was the last time you took lord-celestants, knight-venator, lord-exorcist,  lord-veritant, knight-questor?

 

But surely, the Scions of the Storm gives great manoeuvrability, shouldn't it? Well, I would rather prefer command abilities or spells that allow extra movements rather than an allegiance ability that cannot be combined with spells or other abilities activated before the end of movement phase. And if we look closer, there are surprisingly large number of armies who could put powerful units as reserves or teleport them to other part of the board. Idoneth Deepkin, Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, Skaven, Orruk Warclans, and even Seraphon without their 2.0 battletome. Scions of the Storm is also one of only two allegiance abilities that are outright denied in a specific mission, Total Commitment.

 

I might be too pessimistic regarding the current status of Stormcast, but I can think of only seraphon, nighthaunt and kharadron as factions that perform worse than Stormcast in terms of tournament win rate if we consult AoS stats compile by Honest Wargamer. Two of which do not have 2.0 battletome, and one of which earned its battletome at the same time Stormcast battletome was released. I can only think of Anvils of Heldenhammer Longstrikes as the only remarkably strong element in the battletome. And even then it struggles to achieve 5-0 or even 4-1 constantly in multiple tournaments as far as I know. Do we need a revamp on our battletome? Or are there missing gems in our book?

LIberators and Judicators are standalone totally fine.

The problems is that they have no discount on low number (20) and no sinergy wth the army.

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

1 hour ago, Raffonerd said:

LIberators and Judicators are standalone totally fine.

The problems is that they have no discount on low number (20) and no sinergy wth the army.

What about liberators make them totally fine? They might be "fine" in terms of points per wound or relative durability(as represented in re-rolling save rolls of 1), when compared to other non-battleline Stormcast units. But I do not think one-eyed person in the realm of the blind suddenly becomes "fine" when compared to people with both eyes. Internal comparison has little meaning when diagnosing Stormcasts' strengths in external comparison.

Also, why would you ever want to take liberators above their minimum unit size? Because of their large base, short melee weapon range and poor offensive stats, I have rarely seen them used as anything other than cheapest screen(for Stormcast). The only time I have seen large unit of liberators was when pre-2.0 battle tome Vanguard Wing was considered to be overpowered.

As for Judicators...they are expensive, and the only saving grace of the unit, the shockbolt bow, has damage output too random. I would rather take 3.2 freeguild crossbowmen/handgunners for 1 Judicator anytime

Edited November 28, 2019 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[Erdemo86]

Hey guys, is there any goodList for 1000 points stormcast without longstrikes? Have an upcoming Event. Thought about sonething Sequitor and Evocators oriented? And List you suggest?