AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[XReN]

9 hours ago, Marzillius said:

Time for a tournament report!

Spoiler

 

I played the following list:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Vindicators

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline (220)
- General
- Trait: Single-minded Fury
- Artefact: Stormrage Blade
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Pride Leader
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Heraldor (100)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
6 x Evocators on Dracolines (600)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)
Celestar Ballista (110)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Chronomantic Cogs (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111
 

Game 1 vs old Ironjawz: Focal Points. I screen my Dracolines using the Liberators, the Ballistae battery is in the sky. He teleports a 20-man unit of Ardboyz into the Liberator screen turn 1, along with some Goregruntas. A Mawkrusha boss charges the Castellant's free Gryph-Hound to kill it with a MW charge and then charge into something else. However, he only does 3 mortal wounds, so I save it using the Cycle of the Storm, meaning his entire Mawkrusha is wasted fighting the Gryph-Hound. The Evocators kill some boyz, and in my turn I retreat-charge them using the Heraldor and wipe the boyz. I fail to cast Cogs though, and the Ballistae fail to kill the Mawkrusha, leaving him on 1 wound. My screen is dead, and I have no re-roll save on the Evocators, so now I need the double turn. Luckily I get it and wipe his army down to 5 models at the end of round 2. Max win for me.

Game 2 vs Legion of Grief: Starstrike. Standard Dreadblade Harrow list with a bunch of ghosts. He takes first turn and summons most of his army from gravesites 9" away from my Liberator screen. He makes 2 of the charges and kills like 8 Libs, I kill some ghosts back. Then I retreat-charge the Evocators and kill 20 Harridans and 12 Myrmourns. The Ballistae kill a Knight of Shrouds. I get the double, the Evocators kill 20 Bladegheists, the Ballistae a Guardian of Souls and a bunch of Myrmourns, and the Arcanum another Guardian and nearly another Knight of Shrouds. I now cover 3 of the gravesites and there is a massive terrainpiece preventing charges from the fourth. Now it turns sour, because the 1-wound Knight of Shrouds managed to kill my Arcanum against all odds, freeing up a Gravesite. He teleports the Harrow in, summons a bunch of stuff back, then he AGAIN makes two 9" charges, sandwiches the Evocators and kill my entire army bar the Ballistae. It was all decided on a few strange dice rolls. Epic loss for me.

Game 3 vs Gloomspite Gitz: Places of Arcane Power. List with 60 Stabbas, 40 Stabbas, 20 Shootas, 10 Fanatics, Snufflers, an Arachnarok, Skragrott and some spellcasters and a Loonboss. He lets me go first, I fail to kill the Arachnarok with the Ballistae and take no points. On his turn he moves up and takes a point with the Arachnarok. He gets the double and sends the Fanatics into the Evocators. They roll really badly and I make a bunch of saves, so only 2 die. He also roll snake-eyes on the 40 Stabbas to charge the Gryph-Hound which is standing on an objective, which lets me move up and take the point without charging him. Then the Evocators are let loose and kills half the Goblins. I manage to sneak my Arcanum past his screens to slay his hero holding the middle, taking it for myself. At the end of turn 5 a single Liberator Prime manages to liberate Skragrotts brains from his skull, giving me the win.

Game 4 vs Flesh Eater Courts, Blisterskin. Blood and Glory. 2 Terrorgheists, 30 Ghouls, bunch of Horrors and Flayers and 2 Courtiers. I get first turn, buff up the Evos and establish a massive Liberator screen and shoot 5 wounds off a Terrorgheist with long range with the Ballistae. Then he goes, charges a Terrorgheist and the ghouls into said screen. Of course kills them, but draws the Evocators behind into the combat as well. The Evos obliterate the Ghouls and halves the Terrorgheist. Then I win the initiative, retreat-charge the Evos into the other Terrorgheist while the Ballistae finish off the wounded one. Then it's just clean-up until I hold all four points in round 5. Max win for me.

Game 5 vs Tzeentch, Change Host. Scorched Earth. The nightmare match-up. He gives me first turn, halves the move of the Evocators using the Changeling so they fail their turn 1 charge. The Ballistae kills a unit of Pink Horrors.. In his turn his magic is lackluster (fails infernal gateway, rolls 0 6s on the Purple Sun, Pendulum deals 1 MW etc). I get priority and the Evocators smashes a flank, burning one of his objectives. Then a torrent of blue horrors show up and lock down the entire battleline, which I have to fight my way through. I win priority again, and the Evos burn another of his objectives. It is now looking dire for him, so he charges the Lord of Change into 8 Libs and the Ordinator. He whiffs his attacks and I get him down to four wounds. I get the Arcanum into combat with the LoC as well, but then he gets EXTREMELY LUCKY. He saves five 5+ saves and three 4+ saves in a row and lives with 1 wound. Then summons a whole load of Brimstones into my backline and burns all my objectives. Incredibly frustrating way to end a tournament. In the end we draw.

I end up at 9th place out of 36 with 3-1-1, which is actually quite alright. I only managed to cast Cogs in game 4, I failed to cast them 9 times in a row after that, and then 2 times again in the Tzeentch game. So I succeeded in casting a 7 cast spell once out of 12 tries. That has to be some kind of world record. I love playing with the Dracolines however, they are pure murder machines. If you point them at something when they have gotten their buffs off, that thing will die. The Ballistae disappoint again, they were always a wound off killing important targets. This is the third tournament in a row where they disappoint me. I will let them sit in the shelf for a loooong time now.

 

 

Awesome report, thank you for sharing. 

Do you by any chance have any photos from those games? At least after deployment?
My friend who is interested in running similar list would like to see that. Also, what are you planning to run instead of ballistas in Evos on Dracolines list?

[Lucur]

You can drop the artillery stuff and one Liberator squad for a unit of 20 Sequitors, Knight Incantor and everblaze comet. Sequitors use the Castellant buff well, once the cats ran off to do their thing and the MW bombing from the extra caster and the comet gives some ability to snipe the backli e campers.

I personally prefer the ballistae tbh. But i don't have a lot of tournament experience, just a bunch of netlisting waac dudes in my area 😅

[Marzillius]

5 hours ago, XReN said:

Awesome report, thank you for sharing. 

Do you by any chance have any photos from those games? At least after deployment?
My friend who is interested in running similar list would like to see that. Also, what are you planning to run instead of ballistas in Evos on Dracolines list?

No I actually forgot to take photos, I always do. I get too caught up in the game. When not playing Anvils, the Ballistae battery is the best shooting unit you can run. They're actually not bad, I'm just consistently unlucky with them. I love cavalry so I would probably run an Aquilor and Vanguard-Palladors instead of the Ballistae. They are also very good when playing Celestial Vindicators and the Aquilor makes better use of their trait and artifact to act as a sort of assassin. The list also becomes a lot better at the objective game, but worse against Slaanesh.

@Lucur I would not run the Sequitors in this case since they compete with the Evocators for the Castellant's lantern. If you play your movement right they will pretty much always be in range of the lantern. The comet and Incantor would really augment the list though, but not enough I feel.

[PrimeElectrid]

@Marzillius great list, great write ups. I’m so tempted to run the same but can’t decide between the 6 Evocators or 6 Desolators.

Have you thought about dropping a ballista and Cogs? Frees up 190 points for eg an Incantor and a CP. 

[Lucur]

The Cogs and Castellant are the ensurance that the Evocators survive your opponent's retaliation. Anytime i tried shifting the two, or not getting cogs off, games go downhill really fast for me, barring some strange dicerolls.

@MarzilliusI often find myself going for a 1st turn charge and rarely am wholly in range on turn two. This might just be me missplaying, though a 20 blob of Sequitors is nothing to sneeze at, unless you face Slaanesh.

[Marzillius]

@PrimeElectrid I would not drop those two. 3 Ballistae is just not enough, the fourth makes or breaks the battery in my experience. You use Cogs to slow down time so that the Evocators can cast both Empower and Celestial Blades on themselves and gain re-roll saves. With Pride Leader on the charge with the Vindicators battle trait they will kill anything they touch bar other Stormcast Units with a 1+ save with re-roll. The save re-roll from the Cogs then protect them from the counter-charge so that they will survive and continue ruining your opponents day. The Incantor and CP isn't worth losing this. The Desolators need less support, they don't need an Arcanum, Heraldor and Cogs to make them work. A Heraldor and a Drakesworn Templar is useful for them, but not 100% necessary. They're thus easier to slot into a list over the literal 1000 point package that the Evocators are.

@Lucur I often don't need to get to their deployment zone round 1 to charge them, because the opponent always out-drops you and will take first turn, so you can often just charge a little bit to get into combat. I most often used the Heraldor to retreat and charge so that the cats don't get bogged down. But I think you are misplaying, it seems like you use the Evocators as a missile that will do a lot of damage, but of course get destroyed in the process. I think it's better to invest into their survivability rather than over-extending them. But yeah, 20 Sequitors are great, especially with Celestial Vindicators where they can get +1 attack. Juicy stuff!

 

[l1censetochill]

1 hour ago, Marzillius said:

@Lucur I often don't need to get to their deployment zone round 1 to charge them, because the opponent always out-drops you and will take first turn, so you can often just charge a little bit to get into combat. I most often used the Heraldor to retreat and charge so that the cats don't get bogged down. But I think you are misplaying, it seems like you use the Evocators as a missile that will do a lot of damage, but of course get destroyed in the process. I think it's better to invest into their survivability rather than over-extending them. But yeah, 20 Sequitors are great, especially with Celestial Vindicators where they can get +1 attack. Juicy stuff!

 

I'd be interested to hear more on this point - I agree that in 90% of matchups the opponent will out-drop us, but I'm confused why they would take first turn against this list instead of going second and forcing you to approach.

I'm no expert strategist, but if I were playing against a list running Dracolines and a full complement of Ballistas, assuming I outdropped you, I'm pretty sure I'd make you go first every time. Sure, you'll be able to get on objectives, blow up some of my units with a Ballista drop, and maybe long bomb the Dracolines into my lines - but that's way better than basically giving you a free Dracoline charge plus risking losing priority and taking two straight turns of short range Ballista bombardment. And if I get the double turn, I might even be able to clear your screens and get a charge into the Dracolines, which eliminates a good chunk of their damage potential.

But that's just my thinking... I'm probably missing something. Why do your opponents always take first turn? What factions are they playing?

[Klasa]

Yeah, that list looks super fun! Need to get myself some dracolines as soon as I have finished painting the rest of my stuff! Keep it up with the tournament reports! 👍👍👍

[PJetski]

Dracoline + Ballista core is one of the lists I was talking about a year ago when people were telling me that Gavriel was the best Stormcast list. I'm glad people are (finally) catching on! 

[Marzillius]

2 hours ago, l1censetochill said:

I'd be interested to hear more on this point - I agree that in 90% of matchups the opponent will out-drop us, but I'm confused why they would take first turn against this list instead of going second and forcing you to approach.

I'm no expert strategist, but if I were playing against a list running Dracolines and a full complement of Ballistas, assuming I outdropped you, I'm pretty sure I'd make you go first every time. Sure, you'll be able to get on objectives, blow up some of my units with a Ballista drop, and maybe long bomb the Dracolines into my lines - but that's way better than basically giving you a free Dracoline charge plus risking losing priority and taking two straight turns of short range Ballista bombardment. And if I get the double turn, I might even be able to clear your screens and get a charge into the Dracolines, which eliminates a good chunk of their damage potential.

But that's just my thinking... I'm probably missing something. Why do your opponents always take first turn? What factions are they playing?

People tend to take first turn to get on the objectives first, giving them a lead. I agree that this is probably not the wisest thing to do against my list, but many people, even highly competitive and highly ranked tournament players, tend to have a gameplan in mind that they stick to on autopilot. And it often involves going first.

If they give me first turn (which happened 3 times out of the 5 games) I often hold the Evocators back for a turn and not do a suicide run into their screens. Unless the opponent has units which is similarily fast and destructive in close combat this usually works out. I mean, if I stay back on my first turn, what are they gonna do? Stay back as well and potentially waste a double turn? They will move up and take objectives and pray that they win initiative, which is from a pure statistical standpoint not the correct move to do. If they don't win initiative their screens will probably be dead from Ballista fire and their belly is now open to the cat pounce. Whatever your opponent does with deciding who goes first it often plays right into your hands either way.

@PJetski Yeah it's a shame that people get stuck on the same ideas, but that's the meta I guess. There is always room for innovation in places where people aren't looking. I've been playing Dracolines exclusively for half a year now, and I looove it. I do have another new list for a massive GT in mind though since I like variation. I'll post it for feedback later.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Marzillius

[Storm1]

So I am new to Warhammer, this is my first list, it is based of off the Thunderstrike Brotherhood box.  I could not replace Vandus Hammerhand because no Lord Celestants have a Haldesen as their weapon choice, so I made the Haldesen a Thunderaxe. Please tell me what I should add and remove.

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (220)
- General
- Thunderaxe
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Obstinate Blade
Lord-Castellant (120)
- Artefact: Talisman of Blinding Light
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Artefact: Relic Blade

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units

2 x Cuncussors (240)
2 x Fulminators (240)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows

Total: 1300 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 78

Edited October 15, 2019 by Storm1

[Hodges]

16 hours ago, Lucur said:

Totally agree with @l1censetochill

Kittycators with Celestial Vindicators are really strong on offense (rerolling 1s to hit on charge, CA for +1 attack for all weapons, as opposed to the Lord Arcanum who only grants +1 claws attack). If you get a Chronomantic Cogs off, the Evocators can reroll saves and cast both their spells, supercharging them further. Knight Heraldor for run/retreat and charge is golden, can even enable a turn 1 charge. It also ensures your cats can get their charge bonusses after they got caught.

Lord Castellant is great for +1 save, imo if you invested this much in the unit, you might as well throw another 120 pts at their survivability

What i am most unsure of is the spell on the Lord Arcanum. I tend to run Thundershock because i reeeeaaaally want my cats alive, but then again the range is too short and once it's cast it's still a 4+ to work. Makes me think Stormcaller or Azyrite Halo in the future.

If you are worried about the Cats survivability, you could always try the Hysh Battlemage. 90 points, gets you a 5+ to cast spell that gives your unit -1 to be hit. Its pretty damn good for the points. 

[Belper]

3 hours ago, PJetski said:

Dracoline + Ballista core is one of the lists I was talking about a year ago when people were telling me that Gavriel was the best Stormcast list. I'm glad people are (finally) catching on! 

Gavriel was the best list until people got smashed by it enough times to play learn how to play against it.

Now it's shootcast.

[Mark Williams]

56 minutes ago, Belper said:

Gavriel was the best list until people got smashed by it enough times to play learn how to play against it.

Now it's shootcast.

Well you have to keep in mind that those first few months that Gavriel came out there weren't quite the extreme counters that have appeared in the time since. I think Gavriel is arguably as good as it ever was, but that a lot of armies got a lot stronger since them, so they sort of got taken down a peg as far as the meta goes.

I agree there may have been a little bit of "element of surprise" as well in those first few months.

As for me and my army, my main issue is that Gavriel is the best move I've got, regardless of whether or not my opponent has seen it. It's a solid threat that the opponent must deal with in a specific way. Forcing them to play at least a little bit defensively. If they expose a valuable unit, even by accident, I can punish them very hard for it, and that by itself is a very useful tool.

I don't run an anvils-shootcast list, so I've sort of limited/hamstrung myself into playing HoS, so I'll keep using Gavriel until something more useful appears to me.

[Gdead909]

So I apologize because I am sure you get this all the time but this thread is massive, so where do you start with SCE? There are so many lots out there for purchase. 
 

is there more then one book? Any help would be appreciated guys. 

[XReN]

7 minutes ago, Gdead909 said:

So I apologize because I am sure you get this all the time but this thread is massive, so where do you start with SCE? There are so many lots out there for purchase. 
 

is there more then one book? Any help would be appreciated guys. 

There is only one book, you either buy whatever you like or check out Anvistrike list (there was a link a page or 2 back), any way you pick you need to learn the rules and play some games to get you going.

The better units in our book are:

Lord Castellant
Lord Relictor or Lord Veritant (they share some functions)
Knight Incantor
Knight Azyros
Vanguard Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows
Aetherwings (when used with Vanguard Raptors)
Evocators on foot (called just "Evocators")
Sequitors
Dracothian Guard (4 types of dudes riding wingless dragon things that come in pairs)

Knights Heraldor and Vexilor, as well as some named characters are usefull in some lists
Liberators and Judicators are a decent choice for battleline requirements

[Raffonerd]

14 hours ago, Belper said:

Gavriel was the best list until people got smashed by it enough times to play learn how to play against it.

Now it's shootcast.

No, before Gaviel/Sanct were lower in points. Now it is a more fair selection and with slanesh around you cannot fight in cac as before.

Edited October 16, 2019 by Raffonerd

[l1censetochill]

18 hours ago, Storm1 said:

So I am new to Warhammer, this is my first list, it is based of off the Thunderstrike Brotherhood box.  I could not replace Vandus Hammerhand because no Lord Celestants have a Haldesen as their weapon choice, so I made the Haldesen a Thunderaxe. Please tell me what I should add and remove.

Allegiance: Order

Leaders
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (220)
- General
- Thunderaxe
- Trait: Legendary Fighter
- Artefact: Obstinate Blade
Lord-Castellant (120)
- Artefact: Talisman of Blinding Light
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Artefact: Relic Blade

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield

Units

2 x Cuncussors (240)
2 x Fulminators (240)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows

Total: 1300 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 78

You've got a lot going on here, which I think is why you aren't getting a lot of traction in asking for replies. You've also got a few units that really don't fit into any of our 'meta' lists, so trying to rearrange stuff to still make a solid list will be tricky. I'll do my best to sort through it, though - keeping in mind that I'm not exactly a list building wizard, as I've only played a few games myself.

For starters, it looks like you've got artifacts on each of your heroes - that's not how artifacts work. You get one artifact for your whole army in matched play, plus an additional artifact for each battalion you've got (you don't have any).

Next, I'd suggest remodeling your Fulminators into 2 more Concussors. Desolators and Concussors tend to be the best Dracoth choices, and regardless of what you choose they'll be far better as a single unit, so you can give them all the Castellant buff and make them extra tanky. Since you've got 4, Concussors are probably as good/better than Desolators - if you were going for 6, I'd say you for sure want Desolators.

So with that out of the way, given that you've already got 10 Liberators and 10 Judicators, you could consider trying the Skyborne Slayers battalion by adding a unit of Protectors, a unit of Decimators, and a Lord Celestant on foot. That'd be two Paladin boxes and a single Lord Celestant, which wouldn't be that much of an outlay to get 2k points on the table. I'd probably go for the following as a final list:

-----

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
LEADERS
Lord-Celestant on Dracoth (220)
- General
- Command Trait : Staunch Defender
- Thunderaxe & Thundershield
- Mount Trait : Pack Leader
Lord-Castellant (120)
Lord-Celestant (100)

BATTLELINE
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows

OTHER UNITS
5 x Protectors (180)
5 x Decimators (180)
4 x Concussors (480)

BATTALIONS
Skyborne Slayers (190)

TOTAL: 1990/2000
EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1
WOUNDS: 108

----

Not sure what artifacts I'd go with, as this is just an airball list that I came up with on the fly. As an army it would be unlikely to blow anyone off the table, but I could see it being fun to play. No magic or prayers, but very fighty. You've got a sturdy mobile anvil with the LCoD and Concussors, the ability to drop basically anywhere on the table and immediately charge the opponent's vulnerable units with the Slayers battalion, and a bit of ranged support to stand on objectives in the Judicators. Given what you've already got, I think it's probably not a bad list to aim for, as it uses literally everything you've got other than the Lord Relictor.

Happy to hear feedback from anyone on it though, as I know others here have talked about using the Slayers battalion before with some success. Thoughts?

Edited October 16, 2019 by l1censetochill

[Marzillius]

This is the new list I'm considering for an upcoming Grand Tournament. It's a special snowflake variation of Anvilstrike, since I love cavalry and I like the feel of the Hurricane Raptors (it's basically a light machinegun crossbow, how cool isn't that?!).

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

Leaders
Lord-Castellant (120)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Artefact: Soulthief
- Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Celestial Blades
Knight-Vexillor (120)
- Pennant of the Stormbringer

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers

Units
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
3 x Aetherwings (50)
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (420)
6 x Desolators (600)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
 

Issues that I see is that if Translocation fails you will not be able to shoot with the Hurricanes in your first hero phase. Longstrikes can usually fire into some screens or something at least if the prayer fails. If Translocation fails the Vexillor can at least make sure you can fire at full effect in the shooting phase, which is important. You can also maybe use the Volley Fire CA in this case, since you didn't use any CP in the first hero phase. The Desolators are a juicy unit as well. They're twice as fast as the usual 10-man Evocator unit and fights a lot harder, and can take a serious beating with the Lantern from the Castellant. There is also not any room for an Azyros, which kinda sucks. Also no fast or tanky heroes, so hero-scoring scenarios will be harder than what I'm used to. What do you think? 3-2? 4-1? Worse? Any obvious ways to refine that I'm missing?

[Naprapaten]

The only issue i see is the lack of long range. The output of desolators if they can shoot in the hero phase and shooting phase is pretty good since its mortals. It has potential to kill keepers but will have issues against other shooting because of the shorter range threat. You can probably do a solid 4-1 with some luck in matchups

Edited October 16, 2019 by Naprapaten

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Raffonerd said:

No, before Gaviel/Sanct were lower in points. Now it is a more fair selection and with slanesh around you cannot fight in cac as before.

Nah Gavriel lists became obsolete long before GHB2019, even before the Fight First meta, and even before AOS 2.0.

Turn 1 charge lists have always been easy to counter with just some basic positioning. If you play against people that know how to screen against the deep strike charge and keep key units back for a counterattack then your list quickly falls apart and fails to do anything.

[PrimeElectrid]

On 10/15/2019 at 5:45 PM, Marzillius said:

@PrimeElectrid I would not drop those two. 3 Ballistae is just not enough, the fourth makes or breaks the battery in my experience. You use Cogs to slow down time so that the Evocators can cast both Empower and Celestial Blades on themselves and gain re-roll saves. With Pride Leader on the charge with the Vindicators battle trait they will kill anything they touch bar other Stormcast Units with a 1+ save with re-roll. The save re-roll from the Cogs then protect them from the counter-charge so that they will survive and continue ruining your opponents day. The Incantor and CP isn't worth losing this. The Desolators need less support, they don't need an Arcanum, Heraldor and Cogs to make them work. A Heraldor and a Drakesworn Templar is useful for them, but not 100% necessary. They're thus easier to slot into a list over the literal 1000 point package that the Evocators are.

@Lucur I often don't need to get to their deployment zone round 1 to charge them, because the opponent always out-drops you and will take first turn, so you can often just charge a little bit to get into combat. I most often used the Heraldor to retreat and charge so that the cats don't get bogged down. But I think you are misplaying, it seems like you use the Evocators as a missile that will do a lot of damage, but of course get destroyed in the process. I think it's better to invest into their survivability rather than over-extending them. But yeah, 20 Sequitors are great, especially with Celestial Vindicators where they can get +1 attack. Juicy stuff!

 

I’m still torn between Desolators and Dracolines and to be honest that’s largely because I can’t see how Dracolines manage against HoS. At least Desolators have the opportunity to shoot the Keepers first and drop them down the damage track.

(Both backed by ballista of course).

[jhamslam]

I am honetly quite frustrated in my recent list building efforts for Stormcast. Every time i build a "complete" feeling list its usually over by 200-300 points. 

Why are our named heroes so expensive. Why in the blue hell are  judicators at 160?  Why are retributors and all paladins for that matter costed so high, they are outclassed by battleline options amongst other factions. 

Like we seem incapable of running a sort of "mid" level good units army. Everything we have HAS to be optimized, like evocators for melee removal, longstrikes for ranged removal, we cant build middle lists without going over points or just underperforming.

Yes Anvilstrike works, but for once id like to utilize some other units , maybe try an extra artifact or two, but man they really nerfed SCE even more based off a casual meta instead of the actual tournament scene. Really hoping their "twice a year " updates fixes some points costs for us

Edited October 17, 2019 by jhamslam

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, jhamslam said:

Like we seem incapable of running a sort of "mid" level good units army. Everything we have HAS to be optimized, like evocators for melee removal, longstrikes for ranged removal, we cant build middle lists without going over points or just underperforming.

This sounds a lot like you are not capable of building a mid tier list and enjoying it because your brain tells you to optimize the hell out of it.

Just build a list, agree with your opponent on fun lists and enjoy the game?

[Souleater]

Hey, folks.

Here is a list I have been tweaking for a bit. E.g. have finally bowed to the inevitable and given my LA Ignax scales. 

One thing I have notice is that I am pretty short on ranged threats.  

Without rewriting this, can anybody suggest a tweak or two to add to my ranged game?

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Thundershock
- City Role: undefined

Artifact God Forged Hammer

Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (220)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Scrolls of Power (Artefact): undefined
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): undefined
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
- City Role: undefined
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Lord-Castellant (120)
- City Role: undefined
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
10 x Sequitors (260)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (130)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Evocators (220)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
- City Role: undefined
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
- City Role: undefined
3 x Vanguard-Palladors (180)
- Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins
Cleansing Phalanx (120)
Dais Arcanum (30)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108
 

 

Thank you.