AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Lucur]

That is correct.

[Maturin]

Another question. what's the maximum distance for the pile in for a unit with the Anvil CA ? If it's just 3", then melee CA is not usable as an alpha strike, right ?

[Lucur]

That, too, is correct. Also, even if the pile in range of a unit was increased by rules or spells, unless specifically stated otherwise, units are only eligible to pile in when they are within 3" of an enemy model.

Just checked, the Anvils CA doesn't even need enemies within 3. Could we actually just use the CA for a 3" move towards the nearest enemy in the hero phase?

Edited September 17, 2019 by Lucur

[Maturin]

2 hours ago, Lucur said:

That, too, is correct. Also, even if the pile in range of a unit was increased by rules or spells, unless specifically stated otherwise, units are only eligible to pile in when they are within 3" of an enemy model.

Just checked, the Anvils CA doesn't even need enemies within 3. Could we actually just use the CA for a 3" move towards the nearest enemy in the hero phase?

Pile in rule : "A unit can make a pile-in move if it is within 3" of an enemy unit or has made a charge move in the same turn. If this is the case, you can move each model in the unit up to 3". Each model must finish its pile-in move at least as close to the nearest enemy model as it was at the start of the move."

Anvil's CA :

"You can use this command ability in your hero phase. If you do so, pick a friendly ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER unit wholly within 9" of a friendly ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER HERO, or wholly within 18" of a friendly ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER HERO that is a general. That unit can attack with all of the missile weapons it is armed with, or make a pile-in move and attack with all of the melee weapons it is armed with."

As we must use the CA during the hero phase, the "made a charge move" requirement doesn't apply to us. But does the 3" rule ?
Surely we can't make a 12 inch" pile move ?

Edited September 17, 2019 by Maturin

[Tenshi]

10 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Pile in rule : "A unit can make a pile-in move if it is within 3" of an enemy unit or has made a charge move in the same turn. If this is the case, you can move each model in the unit up to 3". Each model must finish its pile-in move at least as close to the nearest enemy model as it was at the start of the move."

Anvil's CA :

"You can use this command ability in your hero phase. If you do so, pick a friendly ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER unit wholly within 9" of a friendly ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER HERO, or wholly within 18" of a friendly ANVILS OF THE HELDENHAMMER HERO that is a general. That unit can attack with all of the missile weapons it is armed with, or make a pile-in move and attack with all of the melee weapons it is armed with."

As we must use the CA during the hero phase, the "made a charge move" requirement doesn't apply to us. But does the 3" rule ?
Surely we can't make a 12 inch" pile move ?

The "within 3" of an enemy unit" should be met, as the "made a charge move" can´t.  And as per the rule, "you can move each model in the unit up to 3"".

[Requizen]

Neither requirements are needed to use the Anvils CA. The "within 3 inches" and "made a charge move" requirments are for selecting a unit to Pile In in the Combat Phase,  telling you which ones are eligible.

The Command Ability tells you to make the Pile In move and Attack, full stop. 

[Maturin]

11 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Neither requirements are needed to use the Anvils CA. The "within 3 inches" and "made a charge move" requirments are for selecting a unit to Pile In in the Combat Phase,  telling you which ones are eligible.

The Command Ability tells you to make the Pile In move and Attack, full stop. 

Wait, does that mean we can pile in in the hero phase from 12 inch away ? If so, Holy ******. That's insanely powerful!!!

Edited September 17, 2019 by Maturin

[rogue_michael]

14 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Neither requirements are needed to use the Anvils CA. The "within 3 inches" and "made a charge move" requirments are for selecting a unit to Pile In in the Combat Phase,  telling you which ones are eligible.

The Command Ability tells you to make the Pile In move and Attack, full stop. 

The requirements are in the rule for picking an eligible fighter but again in the rule for when something can pile in.

Makessense to me that being told to do it doesn't override that then not being possible, feels the same to me as being told I can charge a unit but presumably if I picked one that had run that wouldn't work (abilities to charge after running obviously notwithstanding)

[Requizen]

4 hours ago, Maturin said:

Wait, does that mean we can pile in in the hero phase from 12 inch away ? If so, Holy ******. That's insanely powerful!!!

Well, you can use the ability to pile in, but a pile in move is only 3" and must go towards the closest enemy model. So if you are 12" away from a target, yes you can pile in, but you move 3", and attack with all viable weapons (which are none). Basically it just gives you a 3" move for a Command Point, which is not worthwhile... most of the time.

4 hours ago, rogue_michael said:

The requirements are in the rule for picking an eligible fighter but again in the rule for when something can pile in.

Makessense to me that being told to do it doesn't override that then not being possible, feels the same to me as being told I can charge a unit but presumably if I picked one that had run that wouldn't work (abilities to charge after running obviously notwithstanding)

"A unit can make a pile-in move if it is within 3" of an enemy unit or has made a charge move in the same turn. If this is the case, you can move each model in the unit up to 3". Each model must finish its pile-in move at least as close to the nearest enemy model as it was at the start of the move."

The first sentence tells you what unit is eligible to make the pile in move. The second and third sentences tell you how to make a pile in move. The Command Ability essentially overrides the first sentence by expressly giving permission to make the move, so you don't need to check, you just make it as told in sentences 2 and 3. 

As for your "Ability to charge a unit that ran", always remember this - Specific trumps General. If there was an ability that, for some reason, said 'Use this Command Ability in the Shooting Phase. A friendly unit within 6" can make a Charge Move', then it wouldn't matter if you Ran, because it's telling you to make the action.

[Maturin]

@Requizen Thanks for the clarification. It's not what I imagined. What I thought was OP as ******. But still, sometimes, it might be interesting, to capture first an objective.

[Maturin]

I've got a question lads, how does Cycle of the storm really works ? Yesterday I was in the local GW, the manager was playing against a Stormcast.
The manager gets three wounds on a unit of 5 sequitors. The SCE player was about to remove 1 and put a wound on another.
I said don't forget your LACD's ability, you'll lose one, but one of the wound won't go to another sequitor, since one of them is used to kill the sequitor, who then is being revived, but then dies again. The manager said that it doesn't work that way, I don't remember exactly what he said.

In any case, who's right ? Was the last wound used to kill the sequitor again, or was it transfered to another model ?

[FattBooM666]

2 minutes ago, Maturin said:

I've got a question lads, how does Cycle of the storm really works ? Yesterday I was in the local GW, the manager was playing against a Stormcast.
The manager gets three wounds on a unit of 5 sequitors. The SCE player was about to remove 1 and put a wound on another.
I said don't forget your LACD's ability, you'll lose one, but one of the wound won't go to another sequitor, since one of them is used to kill the sequitor, who then is being revived, but then dies again. The manager said that it doesn't work that way, I don't remember exactly what he said.

In any case, who's right ? Was the last wound used to kill the sequitor again, or was it transfered to another model ?

Hmm I am unsure now. 

But If it was 2 wounds, it would die and come back with 1 wound.

I think it would be that A dies B has 1 wound, but A comes back then both are on 1 wound and you can't have that. Either remove one model and give the the wound to the other (sounds fishy) 

 

Or you haven't met the requirement. "Ish"

[rogue_michael]

1 hour ago, Maturin said:

I've got a question lads, how does Cycle of the storm really works ? Yesterday I was in the local GW, the manager was playing against a Stormcast.
The manager gets three wounds on a unit of 5 sequitors. The SCE player was about to remove 1 and put a wound on another.
I said don't forget your LACD's ability, you'll lose one, but one of the wound won't go to another sequitor, since one of them is used to kill the sequitor, who then is being revived, but then dies again. The manager said that it doesn't work that way, I don't remember exactly what he said.

In any case, who's right ? Was the last wound used to kill the sequitor again, or was it transfered to another model ?

You are right. The heal thing is instantaneous, so it goes remove wound, remove last wound but negate, remove last wound again. I think it's gone through like that somewhere, probably the designers' commentary

[XReN]

1 hour ago, Maturin said:

I've got a question lads, how does Cycle of the storm really works ? Yesterday I was in the local GW, the manager was playing against a Stormcast.
The manager gets three wounds on a unit of 5 sequitors. The SCE player was about to remove 1 and put a wound on another.
I said don't forget your LACD's ability, you'll lose one, but one of the wound won't go to another sequitor, since one of them is used to kill the sequitor, who then is being revived, but then dies again. The manager said that it doesn't work that way, I don't remember exactly what he said.

In any case, who's right ? Was the last wound used to kill the sequitor again, or was it transfered to another model ?

The manager was wrong, with CotS you essentially remove and then heal a wound, than if there is unallocated damage left you keep allocating it as normal, continuening with the model you just saved

So yeah, if SCE player used the CotS he would be left with one dead sequitor and no wounded ones

[Esside]

Hello,

I played a game with Stormcasts against a Khorn army with Archaon. The game went well at first, until I had to engage Archaon, who was protected by one unit of blood warriors. The sequence of combat was: I charged with one unit of 5 evocators and one unit of 5 Retributors, another unit of 5 Evocators was at proximity but wasn't able to reach Archaon, they were engaged by another enemy unit. I deleted the blood warriors with the Evocators that lost half the models to counter-attacks, Archaon destroyed the retributors that were not able to attack. In my opponent's turn, he used blood tithe to remove the last models of the unit of Evocators, then in the normal combat sequence, he charged on the other unit of evocator that were erazed. The game was lost at this point (turn 2).

Is there a strategy to deal with Archaon? As he's fast and flying, it seems impossible to block him with chaff units or avoid him, he's resistant against spells and I don't have very efficient ranged units.

[XReN]

17 minutes ago, Esside said:

Hello,

I played a game with Stormcasts against a Khorn army with Archaon. The game went well at first, until I had to engage Archaon, who was protected by one unit of blood warriors. The sequence of combat was: I charged with one unit of 5 evocators and one unit of 5 Retributors, another unit of 5 Evocators was at proximity but wasn't able to reach Archaon, they were engaged by another enemy unit. I deleted the blood warriors with the Evocators that lost half the models to counter-attacks, Archaon destroyed the retributors that were not able to attack. In my opponent's turn, he used blood tithe to remove the last models of the unit of Evocators, then in the normal combat sequence, he charged on the other unit of evocator that were erazed. The game was lost at this point (turn 2).

Is there a strategy to deal with Archaon? As he's fast and flying, it seems impossible to block him with chaff units or avoid him, he's resistant against spells and I don't have very efficient ranged units.

You see Archaon - you shoot him, or burn with MWs from evocators, he won't be able to engage them without getting in range of lightning arc, you can even kill him with Celestant Prime I think.

[chord]

3 hours ago, XReN said:

You see Archaon - you shoot him, or burn with MWs from evocators, he won't be able to engage them without getting in range of lightning arc, you can even kill him with Celestant Prime I think.

Unless Archaon gets killed by the Celestant Prime immediately the Celestant Prime will be toast.  The Prime can not handle a protracted combat with Archaon

[XReN]

2 minutes ago, chord said:

Unless Archaon gets killed by the Celestant Prime immediately the Celestant Prime will be toast.  The Prime can not handle a protracted combat with Archaon

True, I actually haven't remembered Archaon stats when I posted, 20 wounds looks like too much for our boy.

[Maturin]

Thanks for your replies earlier guys.

Tell me, is there a way to make a working list using the Sisters on Dragon from the WE compendium ? I think their abilities are great fight first and make everyone around 3 fight last (the enemy ofc).

[Requizen]

16 minutes ago, chord said:

Unless Archaon gets killed by the Celestant Prime immediately the Celestant Prime will be toast.  The Prime can not handle a protracted combat with Archaon

Sadly, the Prime can't handle protracted combat with anything

[Maturin]

15 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Sadly, the Prime can't handle protracted combat with anything

And that sucks a lot.

[Maturin]

17 hours ago, Requizen said:

Well, you can use the ability to pile in, but a pile in move is only 3" and must go towards the closest enemy model. So if you are 12" away from a target, yes you can pile in, but you move 3", and attack with all viable weapons (which are none). Basically it just gives you a 3" move for a Command Point, which is not worthwhile... most of the time.

How about a Templar on Stardrake with the 3"inch lance and Ghyrropian gauntlets (6" pile in).

If you go first, Hero phase, teleport him with prayer or totem, activate the CA, he piles in 6", he fights, the targeted unit can't fight back.
Ok, that's not very interesting since the lance is made to kill monsters, but hey

OH I FORGOT, cavernous jaw bites ; 3"  . Against a 10 man unit of SCE, that could be worth it! Then if the units deleted during the shooting phase, he can place himself right next to a monster (general ?) and charge easily and boom.

What do you guys think ? Fun ? Cheese ? Worthless ?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Maturin

[PJetski]

7 minutes ago, Maturin said:

How about a Templar on Stardrake with the 3"inch lance and Ghyrropian gauntlets (6" pile in).

If you go first, Hero phase, teleport him with prayer or totem, activate the CA, he piles in 6", he fights, the targeted unit can't fight back.
Ok, that's not very interesting since the lance is made to kill monsters, but hey

You would still be too far away to actually hit anything because you have to be >9" from an enemy when you finish a teleport and moving 6" would place you >3" away and not within range to actually attack anything.

Edited September 18, 2019 by PJetski

[Maturin]

3 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You would still be too far away to actually hit anything because you have to be >9" from an enemy when you finish a teleport and moving 6" would place you >3" away and not within range to actually attack anything.

Oh, my bad. I'm such a noob :(. And here I was thinking I discovered something cool!

[Maturin]

So the only thing left in my mind is :

 

Knight Azyros with Ghyrropian gauntlets. Activate CA Herophase, he moves 6 inch, Normal move 12" fly, Run (can't run more than 3 since he'd be too close if your enemies deployed at 24) and here you go. Your azyros is in a perfect spot to make all your incoming shots or attacks of to reroll 1's if needed.