AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[PJetski]

1 minute ago, Siegfried VII said:

I see... so at least we'll be spared at least one unit of 40 of them. That is certainly something. 🙂

What are your thoughts regarding Changehost. I'm seeing a resurgence of this list (which I hate with a passion) and I'm trying to think of ways to face them in a tournament..

Tzeentch (and Seraphon) are one of the main reasons I run my tournament list with 2x Incantor. You can basically ignore their hero phase when you have two dispel scrolls.

I'm hoping to go 5-0 next weekend and get enough points to be ranked #1 on ITC world rankings 

[Siegfried VII]

7 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I'm hoping to go 5-0 next weekend and get enough points to be ranked #1 on ITC world rankings 

I apologize in advance if the question sounds silly, but what is the ITC world rankings? Sounds like some kind of global way to rank players? If so what tournaments are taken into consideration for something like this? Again sorry but in Greece we are a bit behind on these things...

Two weekends ago I took part in my first Heat GT ever so I'm new to the global warhammer scene..  :-)

[stato]

12 minutes ago, Siegfried VII said:

I apologize in advance if the question sounds silly, but what is the ITC world rankings? Sounds like some kind of global way to rank players? If so what tournaments are taken into consideration for something like this? Again sorry but in Greece we are a bit behind on these things...

Two weekends ago I took part in my first Heat GT ever so I'm new to the global warhammer scene..  🙂

Its like World Series baseball, its essentially the US rankings  🤣

(no offence PJetski, you are a super ace player and community contributor, but ITC means nothing outside of US for AoS).

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, stato said:

Its like World Series baseball, its essentially the US rankings  🤣

(no offence PJetski, you are a super ace player and community contributor, but ITC means nothing outside of US for AoS).

There's a lot of places in the States that don't adopt it either, for one reason or another. It's much more prominent in 40k, however.

 

I've honestly started looking at Protectors to replace Evocators in my Anvilstrike. 80 points is a big difference, and while the damage output is lower overall (though super nice vs Monsters), I find a lot of my worst matchups are ones with shooting attacks that can hit my Evos/Longstrikes before they can do their thing. It's not super common, but there are awkward matchups vs SCE Ballistas, mass Arkanaut Skyhooks, Mixed Order Artillery, or Skyfires. Having a bit of a boost against that is potentially useful, especially if they become more common to face against FEC and Slaanesh.

[jhamslam]

22 minutes ago, Requizen said:

There's a lot of places in the States that don't adopt it either, for one reason or another. It's much more prominent in 40k, however.

 

I've honestly started looking at Protectors to replace Evocators in my Anvilstrike. 80 points is a big difference, and while the damage output is lower overall (though super nice vs Monsters), I find a lot of my worst matchups are ones with shooting attacks that can hit my Evos/Longstrikes before they can do their thing. It's not super common, but there are awkward matchups vs SCE Ballistas, mass Arkanaut Skyhooks, Mixed Order Artillery, or Skyfires. Having a bit of a boost against that is potentially useful, especially if they become more common to face against FEC and Slaanesh.

Why not desolators? If the Evocator output isnt a problem,then surely 400 points for 4 desolators damn good for a 3+ save re rolling ones plus great movement and shooting.

Edited July 9, 2019 by jhamslam

[crkhobbit]

6 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

You don't need to one shot things... This is the mentality that is letting combat monster builds run rampant. You don't need to amass so much shooting so as to kill them in a volley. And, anything less than that is worthless.

You just need to always be doing dmg so that when they fight a) they are weaker, therefore kill less and b) they are easier to finish off or further bracket when they do reach combat making activation choices difficult for the controlling player. 

HoS are even more vulnerable to this as they want you to spike dmg so they can get their Depravity in all at once and have it available to spend. 

I can certainly see an argument for stopping attacking Seekers when they almost have enough to summon another, putting them off one more turn.  Then hopefully you can kill the remaining heroes in a single turn.  But as a best practice, finishing a Seeker is much better than not.  Because the longer it's alive, the longer it can farm depravity off of our multi-wound models, and potentially heal and double-up on depravity from damage taken.

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, jhamslam said:

Why not desolators? If the Evocator output isnt a problem,then surely 400 points for 4 desolators damn good for a 3+ save re rolling ones plus great movement and shooting.

Worth consideration, but I was also balancing the defensive nature of Protectors as well. Being a bit harder for shooters to kill is a big deal.

I think if I was going Desolators, the Astral Templar Ballista build would be much more appealing.

[whispersofblood]

12 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

I can certainly see an argument for stopping attacking Seekers when they almost have enough to summon another, putting them off one more turn.  Then hopefully you can kill the remaining heroes in a single turn.  But as a best practice, finishing a Seeker is much better than not.  Because the longer it's alive, the longer it can farm depravity off of our multi-wound models, and potentially heal and double-up on depravity from damage taken.

5 hours ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Could you elaborate further on this please?

A bladebringer on seeker chariot doesn't degrade, so yes you would be right that if you have started damaging it then yes its best to finish it unless you have some way to finish it before it can activate in combat.

But the KoS specifically drops from doing a max of 21 dmg per activation to 13 max dmg after taking 7 wounds. After that the return per wound done to the KoS is much worse. At that point its perfectly fightable with a decent combat unit.

Therefore given how powerful combat options are generally vs a shooting option, you will significantly decrease the ability of your army to fight and most importantly move if you invest in shooting enough to one shot all the things you are scared of, and you are just one ragged cloak away from being out of options. 

[crkhobbit]

Dealing 7 wounds then taking 13 back is about the same amount of depravity as one-shotting the KoS. Except they still have half a KoS, and you still need to finish it off. Meaning they're going to have all the points for you killing that KoS, and all the points they got for damaging your multiwound models that they would not have been able to get had you one-shot it with shooting.

Edited July 9, 2019 by crkhobbit

[Siegfried VII]

5 hours ago, Requizen said:

I've honestly started looking at Protectors to replace Evocators in my Anvilstrike. 80 points is a big difference

And by paying 100 more points you can fit 15 Protectors. Not sure how that translates in terms of killing power but it's 15 more wounds! :-)

[crkhobbit]

I brought 15 Evocators with Grand Staves to a game for lulz, and it was pretty great.

Protectors having 3" reach might be viable.

[PJetski]

I think I would always rather take Evocators - being able to do mortal wounds to any unit within 3" of the unit with their lightning blast is outstanding. Their base damage is pretty great against low save units, too.

Protectors do nothing against units that don't roll to hit (Thundertusk, WLC) or armies that can ignore cover, and while they are good against rapid fire Ballistas you should be able to zone out ballistas from firing within 18" and single shots aren't a big threat.

[jhamslam]

So i tried some desolators in two lists. In Anvils and AT. In anvils i supported them with a gryph charger arcanum. In AT with a castellant for the warding lantern.

Given the recent Gristlegore nerf and small increases to skaven, Slaanesh is the next annoying thing. Unlimited Depravity and Multiple Hero summoning with lots of movement. Dracoth cav is really really good since Slaaneshi combat profile is not that good outside of few mortal wounds and 3+ save with a Castellant can really shine.

knight Incantors x2 or atleast one Incantor are a must. Slaanesh has pretty good spells to support them. surrounding them so their heroes cant summon more units within 12 inches of their hero is crucial late game.

Gristlegore was good with Anvilstrike, its an absolute cakewalk now even with desolators.

Skaven still gave me a bit of a hard time (****** that battletome is cheap af, like their only strength is the fact that youre facing half the battletome out on the field) , but only because of some poor positioning on my part. the WLV is much less of a threat with its shorter range since you can now unbind it , it might affect their army too and they cant always be near their gnawholes  for the bonus if you position your army right.  Shooty skaven is a great matchup because they cant shoot what they cant see (Scions of the storm!)

. Khorne Daemons imo has gotten a lot stronger with the points decrease. We might see the return of the bloodletter and thirster bomb. Havent tested against Gitz but given their decreases they also might be really strong.

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by jhamslam

[Jaidean]

2 hours ago, jhamslam said:

So i tried some desolators in two lists. In Anvils and AT. In anvils i supported them with a gryph charger arcanum. In AT with a castellant for the warding lantern.

Given the recent Gristlegore nerf and small increases to skaven, Slaanesh is the next annoying thing. Unlimited Depravity and Multiple Hero summoning with lots of movement. Dracoth cav is really really good since Slaaneshi combat profile is not that good outside of few mortal wounds and 3+ save with a Castellant can really shine.

knight Incantors x2 or atleast one Incantor are a must. Slaanesh has pretty good spells to support them. surrounding them so their heroes cant summon more units within 12 inches of their hero is crucial late game.

Gristlegore was good with Anvilstrike, its an absolute cakewalk now even with desolators.

Skaven still gave me a bit of a hard time (****** that battletome is cheap af, like their only strength is the fact that youre facing half the battletome out on the field) , but only because of some poor positioning on my part. the WLV is much less of a threat with its shorter range since you can now unbind it , it might affect their army too and they cant always be near their gnawholes  for the bonus if you position your army right.  Shooty skaven is a great matchup because they cant shoot what they cant see (Scions of the storm!)

. Khorne Daemons imo has gotten a lot stronger with the points decrease. We might see the return of the bloodletter and thirster bomb. Havent tested against Gitz but given their decreases they also might be really strong.

 

What lists were you running for your Anvils and AT?

[jhamslam]

4 hours ago, Jaidean said:

What lists were you running for your Anvils and AT?

 

 

This is AT

In Anvils I take 9 Longstrikes and 4 Desolators. Replace the Gryph Charger with another Incantor and put in an azyros.

 

Edit: Replace the castellant with a heraldor in the Anvils list.

[JaffaBones]

On 7/8/2019 at 7:40 PM, XReN said:

For each their own than

But Vex always has re-rolls and chooses between MWs and Teleport

Chooses? Did I miss something? Can you choose his banner while setting him up now? 

[XReN]

18 minutes ago, JaffaBones said:

Chooses? Did I miss something? Can you choose his banner while setting him up now? 

No, but you still choose what banner you give him when you build one

[whispersofblood]

14 hours ago, crkhobbit said:

Dealing 7 wounds then taking 13 back is about the same amount of depravity as one-shotting the KoS. Except they still have half a KoS, and you still need to finish it off. Meaning they're going to have all the points for you killing that KoS, and all the points they got for damaging your multiwound models that they would not have been able to get had you one-shot it with shooting.

The question isn't being in game having the shooting to do it and not doing it. The question is in the list building phase what do you give up to one shot a KoS. Especially considering that the same shooting won't necessarily work against any of the other big gribblies you are afraid of. GKoTG, Warpseer, etc. 

So I would say its a meta call, do you expect to play HoS multiple times an event? Maybe its worth having the ability to one-shot a KoS. If we are being totally honest though if you are looking to play in a legit  40+ player GT and bringing SCE outside round 1 or 2 you probably will never see HoS anyway.

[TomParry84]

So I've been playing around and think this list may have some legs, thoughts and comments welcome!

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals - Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer

LEADERS

Lord-Aquilor (180) Wind Runner, Deathly Aura, General

Knight-Zephyros (100) Soul Thief

Knight-Azyros (100)

Skink Starseer (160) - Allies

UNITS

5 x Vanguard-Hunters (110) - Boltstorm Pistols and Storm Sabres

5 x Liberators (100) - Warblades - 1 x Grandblades

5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammers - 1 x Grandhammers

9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (510)

6 x Vanguard-Palladors (360) - Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins

3 x Vanguard-Palladors (180) - Boltstorm Pistols and Starstrike Javelins

3 x Aetherwings (50)

3 x Aetherwings (50)

2000 points

[Naem]

How exactly is an Anvilstrike list defined actually? 

[TomParry84]

16 minutes ago, Naem said:

How exactly is an Anvilstrike list defined actually? 

Anvils stormhost with 6-12 long strike crossbows in it

[Naem]

I see...never thought about taking a Stormhost as Staunch Defender seems just way to good  

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Naem said:

I see...never thought about taking a Stormhost as Staunch Defender seems just way to good  

I don't fault you for dismissing them. Some Stormhosts (Anvils, Astral Templars, Celestial Vindicators) are only good with specific unit combinations and the rest are just trash. Why would anyone ever play Hallowed Knights or Knights Excelsior...?

[Naem]

Yes exactly. Plus I got into Stormcast Strategy by reading the 1dchan page several times and they seem to be quite anti Stormhost selection. But I can see the advantages of the Anvil guys in combination with the Longstrike Bows. Maybe I try them out but right now I am still to much in love with Ballistas. 

[Heijoshin]

Hey everyone, 

I have my first sort of "real" game coming on Friday - Just a friendly with a friend who is playing the Old Dark Elves with their compendium and witch elves, executioners etc etc).

It's a 1500 point game and I'm using mostly stuff from the Tempest of Souls and Soul Wars boxes, with some extra liberators that I bought. So the list is pretty firm in terms of 90% of the points because that's all I have really. However, we can use proxies and as I have 3 Knight Incantors (2 from the boxes and one from the getting started magazine), I thought about what would be good to proxy as potentially. 

Also, I really have no idea in terms of what stormhost, command traits, artefacts and spells to take (Oh and the mount trait), but I gave it a try and came up with this: 

Stormhost - Hammers of Sigmar

Leaders: 

Lord Arc. on Gryph Charger - General
- CT: We cannot fail
- Art. : God-forged blade
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait (I have no idea)

Knight Incantor
- Spell: Stormcaller

3rd Leader (I thought about a Lord-Castellant? or a Lord Relictor?)


Units:

5  Liberators

15 Sequitors (can be split into 2 or 3 groups also I guess)

5 Evocators
- Spell: Speed of Lightning (Can Evos take something from the LoI? 1d4chan says so, but the Warscrolsl doesn't say anything)

3-6 Castigators (depends on if I take this 3rd Hero or not)
 

War Machines: 

Celestar Ballista

Celestar Ballista


Any information how I could approach this would be great! Not sure how the Dark Elves play, but I hear that the Executioners just tear things to shreds, so my initial idea was to focus on save rolls and healing potentially. 

Thanks for any help! 


 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Heijoshin
Added more info