AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Maturin]

Sorry for being a noob but what is " forever fight first FEC dragon " ?

[Requizen]

12 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

The forever fight first FEC dragon is gone, once again we can fight the FEC using melee-focused list.

It's especially great for Stormcast, now we can put shooting into the Arch-Regent and then countercharge the AGKoTG, which can give more flexibility on how to approach the matchup. My Anvilstrike feels much more comfortable in the matchup, as well as with shutting down Warp Lightning Vortex.

[crkhobbit]

4 minutes ago, Maturin said:

Sorry for being a noob but what is " forever fight first FEC dragon " ?

Flesh Eater Courts have an allegiance called Gristlegore where the general gets to fight first.  It has been that they can just fight first, but today's errata says they only get to fight first if they charged that turn.

So before today, if we charged them, they would still get to fight before us and might kill our unit that charged them.  Now if we charge them, we at least get to attack before the dragon.

[crkhobbit]

5 minutes ago, Requizen said:

It's especially great for Stormcast, now we can put shooting into the Arch-Regent and then countercharge the AGKoTG, which can give more flexibility on how to approach the matchup. My Anvilstrike feels much more comfortable in the matchup, as well as with shutting down Warp Lightning Vortex.

The Arch Regent went up for 40 points, also.

[Maturin]

2 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

Flesh Eater Courts have an allegiance called Gristlegore where the general gets to fight first.  It has been that they can just fight first, but today's errata says they only get to fight first if they charged that turn.

So before today, if we charged them, they would still get to fight before us and might kill our unit that charged them.  Now if we charge them, we at least get to attack before the dragon.

Thanks mate

[PrimeElectrid]

Subject to any Slaanesh changes this is a big boost for Gavriel lists again, or any melee list for that matter.

i think a strong shooting component is still required but I’m now seriously reconsidering the value of that 4th Ballista. May just swap it back to a Heraldor or Relictor/Veritant to keep the 20 Sequitors.

[jhamslam]

11 minutes ago, PrimeElectrid said:

Subject to any Slaanesh changes this is a big boost for Gavriel lists again, or any melee list for that matter.

i think a strong shooting component is still required but I’m now seriously reconsidering the value of that 4th Ballista. May just swap it back to a Heraldor or Relictor/Veritant to keep the 20 Sequitors.

My main thought was 20 Sequitors are finally playable. Yes theyre vulnerable to charges from Gristlegore but it isnt always an auto loss and you can always screen them with liberators

[PrimeElectrid]

51 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

My main thought was 20 Sequitors are finally playable. Yes theyre vulnerable to charges from Gristlegore but it isnt always an auto loss and you can always screen them with liberators

Even without a screen it’s NBD. A single TG only kills half a unit of Sequitors on average even fighting twice - and all the ones remaining have grand hammers.

what makes it viable now is you can ignore the battleshock with a command point and attack in the next battle round with the survivors (assuming a vacuum of course), whereas before you would lose the lot to another double attack fights first.

 

edit: should add of course there is the risk that it spikes much higher, but the risk of failure for FEC is now very real.

Edited July 8, 2019 by PrimeElectrid

[Talunus]

6 hours ago, XReN said:

Having mobility never hurts

Between the 3 I'd say Vexillor is the best pick, followed up by priest with Translocation and then Heraldor

Vexillor is very good because his ability doesn't require a roll and have a global range, so you don't need to position him for it therefore you can focus on utilising his aura ability.

Translocation means a priest and both of them have nice additional utility, but requires a roll and positioning, so you would want to have a Plan B for a unit you wish to translocate - what that unit will do if prayer fails?

Heraldor is only good with melee units, has weak (For SCE hero) 4+ save and I don't find his MW shooting as good as before, it's harder to position and now with new terrain set up rules there will be less terrain to blow (at least where I play, since we had tables full of terrain) I think you should bring heraldor mostly when you run Dracolines or Fulminators, with other melee units use smart set up and SotS to choose engagements. Or take him if you feel like having more mobility after taking Vexilor or Translocation.

 

I disagree about the statement of vexillor over translocation, specifically over a Relictor. 

Translocation goes off on a 3+ which isn't hard to pull off where areas a Vexillor can only use his ability once per battle. Also, a relictor comes with a d3 heal which i use to stack ontop of any heals my arcanum heals. If heal isnt used then i just blast d3 mw to an openent whos getting to close to a unit or the relictor.

A vexillor has his teleport once per battle (if you only need it once) then either re-roll charge or bug aoe damage.

For an additional 20 points, i'll definitely take the heal with a mw hero

[XReN]

3 minutes ago, Talunus said:

I disagree about the statement of vexillor over translocation, specifically over a Relictor. 

Translocation goes off on a 3+ which isn't hard to pull off where areas a Vexillor can only use his ability once per battle. Also, a relictor comes with a d3 heal which i use to stack ontop of any heals my arcanum heals. If heal isnt used then i just blast d3 mw to an openent whos getting to close to a unit or the relictor.

A vexillor has his teleport once per battle (if you only need it once) then either re-roll charge or bug aoe damage.

For an additional 20 points, i'll definitely take the heal with a mw hero

For each their own than

But Vex always has re-rolls and chooses between MWs and Teleport

[crkhobbit]

Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but it sounds like you're willing to pay 20 extra points for a Relictor.  Relictor is actually 20 points cheaper than a Vexillor.

[PJetski]

Stormcast made out like bandits today. Nerfs to FEC means that our key melee units like Evocators and Desolators don't have to rely on 9x Longstrike support to kill Gristlegore generals. The vortex errata makes 2x Incantor totally back-breaking for Skaven players to deal with, but now even 1x Incantor is probably enough to shut them down long enough.

I hope this means I never have to face the 160 Plague Monk list again 😂

[Talunus]

5 hours ago, crkhobbit said:

Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but it sounds like you're willing to pay 20 extra points for a Relictor.  Relictor is actually 20 points cheaper than a Vexillor.

Oh shoot your right, id totally grab the 20 point cheaper option then! 🤣 but even so i can see where vexillor would be a wiser choice such as running a gav bomb list where a re-roll to those charges might be vital. so definitely to each their own!

[armisael]

Do you think that celestant-prime model is too big for 8 wounds model? It’s a pain to carry him to gaming group.

[Mark Williams]

1 hour ago, armisael said:

Do you think that celestant-prime model is too big for 8 wounds model? It’s a pain to carry him to gaming group.

The tauralon model is probably worse.

[jhamslam]

1 hour ago, armisael said:

Do you think that celestant-prime model is too big for 8 wounds model? It’s a pain to carry him to gaming group.

Hes bad. Not efficient for the points cost at all. Ironically the best and bravest of the stormcast is better served staying in the back creating D3 Mortal Wound bubbles.

 

At 340 points things should be having 5+ FNP for mortal wounds  like other factions - notably Skaven and FEC. Otherwise he'll just die easily.

[XReN]

4 hours ago, armisael said:

Do you think that celestant-prime model is too big for 8 wounds model? It’s a pain to carry him to gaming group.

Well, he is still a normal SCE size, it's wings and magical swirls that make him large.

And +3 wounds upgrade from celestant on foot is something significant and makes sense imo.

[PrimeElectrid]

So looks like Slaanesh will be left untouched for 6 months. 4 Ballista or 9 Longstrikes still mandatory?

Edited July 9, 2019 by PrimeElectrid

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, PrimeElectrid said:

So looks like Slaanesh will be left untouched for 6 months. 4 Ballista or 9 Longstrikes still mandatory?

Honestly you don't need that much shooting in your list to give Slaanesh a problem. 

6 longstrikes with some mobility would be enough. 

[PrimeElectrid]

16 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

Honestly you don't need that much shooting in your list to give Slaanesh a problem. 

6 longstrikes with some mobility would be enough. 

How come? 6 Longstrikes aren’t enough to one shot a Keeper, let alone two, let alone the support characters.

[whispersofblood]

1 minute ago, PrimeElectrid said:

How come? 6 Longstrikes aren’t enough to one shot a Keeper, let alone two, let alone the support characters.

You don't need to one shot things... This is the mentality that is letting combat monster builds run rampant. You don't need to amass so much shooting so as to kill them in a volley. And, anything less than that is worthless.

You just need to always be doing dmg so that when they fight a) they are weaker, therefore kill less and b) they are easier to finish off or further bracket when they do reach combat making activation choices difficult for the controlling player. 

HoS are even more vulnerable to this as they want you to spike dmg so they can get their Depravity in all at once and have it available to spend. 

[Siegfried VII]

11 hours ago, PJetski said:

I hope this means I never have to face the 160 Plague Monk list again 😂

I'm afraid that the points raise on the monks is not enough and with the nerf to their powerful magic/4 Verminlords lists we may see more Skaventide players opt to play the safer "Sea of Plague Monks" lists...

[PrimeElectrid]

40 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

You don't need to one shot things... This is the mentality that is letting combat monster builds run rampant. You don't need to amass so much shooting so as to kill them in a volley. And, anything less than that is worthless.

You just need to always be doing dmg so that when they fight a) they are weaker, therefore kill less and b) they are easier to finish off or further bracket when they do reach combat making activation choices difficult for the controlling player. 

HoS are even more vulnerable to this as they want you to spike dmg so they can get their Depravity in all at once and have it available to spend. 

Could you elaborate further on this please?

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Siegfried VII said:

I'm afraid that the points raise on the monks is not enough and with the nerf to their powerful magic/4 Verminlords lists we may see more Skaventide players opt to play the safer "Sea of Plague Monks" lists...

They also raised the cost of the key support pieces for Plague Monks (Corruptors, Warpseers, Bells, Furnaces) so they won't have as many bodies or be as effective as before. 

The 160 monk list I faced went up by about 300 points.

[Siegfried VII]

4 minutes ago, PJetski said:

They also raised the cost of the key support pieces for Plague Monks (Corruptors, Warpseers, Bells, Furnaces) so they won't have as many bodies or be as effective as before. 

The 160 monk list I faced went up by about 300 points.

I see... so at least we'll be spared at least one unit of 40 of them. That is certainly something. :-) 

What are your thoughts regarding Changehost. I'm seeing a resurgence of this list (which I hate with a passion) and I'm trying to think of ways to face them in a tournament..