AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Turragor]

22 minutes ago, Lysandestolpe said:

I also kept him off the board to make my opponent remain cautious of spreading himself too thin on the board, which made it much easier to have board control with an elite army.

This is always fun, the Prime is like playing poker where your opponent knows you have an Ace and you can slap them for free when you play it in a hand. They get jittery.

 

[chord]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

I love the Prime.

I think the if the Prime got a small points tweak he'd make quite a lot of lists. If you were to make the model itself far too tasty you'd see it allied into all Order lists which I guess isn't ideal.

So any (significant) buffs would need to push the points above ally threshold.

I've been running a very silly list with the Prime in a while now and I'm (still) painting up a Drakesworn Templar to either add to the list in place of dracoths and heraldor or to replace the LCoSD with (and maybe work toward the 6 Desolator idea): https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/dr-star-drakelove-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-celestant-prime/

The list falls into the "isn't super competitive but is fun & you can still place well" category.

I disagree it needs to be kept out of Ally Lists.  That is a bad way of looking at it and will keep the Prime from being at the point level he should be at.   So what if he gets added to order lists?  I mean in the lore it could be that Sigmar sends the Prime to help his allies.  

[Turragor]

1 minute ago, chord said:

I disagree it needs to be kept out of Ally Lists.  That is a bad way of looking at it and will keep the Prime from being at the point level he should be at.   So what if he gets added to order lists?  I mean in the lore it could be that Sigmar sends the Prime to help his allies.  

I mean I dont strongly feel that it should, I just feel that if one model is added (very frequently) to every competitive list that did well, it might not be the best for the game or playing the game. Or it might increase the risk that the model is nerfed for the pure allegiance because of it's use as an ally (see Stonehorn nerfs of yore).

Reminds me a bit of how predominant the party wagon (hurricanum) was for a while. That time might come again post GHB2019 actually.

 

[chord]

Just now, Turragor said:

I mean I dont strongly feel that it should, I just feel that if one model is added (very frequently) to every competitive list that did well, it might not be the best for the game or playing the game. Or it might increase the risk that the model is nerfed for the pure allegiance because of it's use as an ally (see Stonehorn nerfs of yore).

Reminds me a bit of how predominant the party wagon (hurricanum) was for a while. That time might come again post GHB2019 actually.

 

I think GW needs to be less concerned about the number of times a model is used.  Right now the prime is almost never used in a competitive list.  

[frostfire]

I've seen players with Celestant-Prime in their list doing well in tournament, Celestant-Prime does good in not only SCE army but also in various factions as a wonderful ally. Surely he can be of use in competitive lists.

[Talunus]

I'll be running this list for a tournament next weekend

Hammers of Sigmar

LAoGC (General, windrunner, azerite Halo, God forged blade)

Lord Castellant

Knight Heraldor( sigmarite pendant)

Lord Relictor (translocation)

1x10 sequitors (cleansing phalanx)

1x5 sequitors (cleansing phalanx)

1x5 sequitors

2x5 judicators

2x5 evocators

Cleansing Phalanx

So with this list I'm looking to have the heraldor bomb rush my 10 block of sequitors while the castellant helps keep them alive. Relictor will allow me to move any unit if I feel I need to go back to an objective or teleport behind an enemy unit. With the 6+fnp from HoS that will also give me a heal 1 wound from castellant. The arcanum main job is to stay alive so I can use his CA to force the Empower (cannot be unbound with this CA) onto my 10 block of sequitors. Otherwise he'll be vital for his other abilities and I will only choose to fight with him if he can finish a hero/unit off. The relictor can help heal him back up if need be. The sigmarite pendant is for that extra damage if the heraldor is to fall. I think many will aim for him quickly since he gifts the run and charge or retreat and charge. Cant wait for the games!

[Lucur]

Better group up the two 5man units. The best part of cleansing phalanx is to cast empower on Sequitors to reroll hits, wounds and saves, single large units are better for that thsn msu. The Judicators cover the battleline slot. Also dont forget the LAoGC can use CP to let Evocators autocast empower and it cannot be unbound!

[Talunus]

1 hour ago, Lucur said:

Better group up the two 5man units. The best part of cleansing phalanx is to cast empower on Sequitors to reroll hits, wounds and saves, single large units are better for that thsn msu. The Judicators cover the battleline slot. Also dont forget the LAoGC can use CP to let Evocators autocast empower and it cannot be unbound!

Yes I already state that that's the purpose with my arcanum, for the auto cast. I'm debating on grouping those smaller units as I want to have at least enough units to cover objectives. The judicators will support the two smaller units on objectives while one evo group runs with the 10 block and the other evo group acts as a powerful screen/shield against the smaller unit.

My thought is, 10 block with evos act as the pushers while the heraldor helps run/charge them, destroying units near terrain as he does. The other 2 units of judicators will deep strike objectives with the smaller units of sequitors catching up to hold and maintain. Castellant and arcanum will run all over the board with my relictor staying near the 10 man for a quick teleport for objective grabbing/hero(monster) slaying

I'll be running a test game later this week and will definitely post my thoughts on the smaller units or if I should run as 2 large units 🤘

[Belper]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:59 PM, boombyeyeah said:

Just check the FAQ

Q: Does the Celestant-Prime’s Retribution from On High Ability 
add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of Ghal Maraz for each turn 
that the Celestant-Prime remains in reserve?
A: Yes.

The wording is pretty clear tbh. Is it the end of the movement phase? Yes. Did the Celestant prime stay in reserves? Yes. Cool, +2 attacks.

[Belper]

On 6/28/2019 at 6:34 PM, EngraBlackSword said:

But my question as a begginer in AoS is, is it worth buying? I mean, I've read a lot of complains about it, being too expensive in points for his effectiveness. The model looks great but since I'm building my army right now, I don't know if I should look at it, with semi competitive point of view or just pass.

Atm, nothing in stormcasts is all that competitive tbh.  We mostly have gimmick deepstrike lists and 'brake check' shooting lists.

(A brake check list is a list that either you have the tools to deal with, and you win with little or no effort, or you don't and you get wiped off the table immediately'.

[Lucur]

I highly doubt anvilstrike is just a gatekeeper. It's hard counter isnt a specific list but realm and scenery (okay, maybe sylvaneth wildwoods).

[Mark Williams]

2 hours ago, Belper said:

Atm, nothing in stormcasts is all that competitive tbh.  We mostly have gimmick deepstrike lists and 'brake check' shooting lists.

(A brake check list is a list that either you have the tools to deal with, and you win with little or no effort, or you don't and you get wiped off the table immediately'.

I mostly agree with you except that I think Anvilstrike is probably more than just a break check.

 I frankly feel that Stormcast on average is quite a bad army, and have felt that way for ages. I can’t seem to get much traction on this forum whenever I say that, but I think it’s true nevertheless. If you build a fun, balanced list with them, you will struggle, and I do mean struggle, to win 3/5 games in a tournament. Doing so will be a major achievement with them, and anything better than that is going to be an extremely specific list that’s relying on and abusing a very specific gimmick and unit.  The lists that you can do this with are very few, and still takes an incredible level of competence to use. 

I think anvilstrike is currently at the top of this heap by a pretty wide margin...

[Naprapaten]

Playing anvilstrike at the moment, i want to branch out and try another list.

I want it to be competitive, either stardrake list or dracoline evocators. Which of these 2 are probably best to invest in?

[whispersofblood]

4 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

I mostly agree with you except that I think Anvilstrike is probably more than just a break check.

 I frankly feel that Stormcast on average is quite a bad army, and have felt that way for ages. I can’t seem to get much traction on this forum whenever I say that, but I think it’s true nevertheless. If you build a fun, balanced list with them, you will struggle, and I do mean struggle, to win 3/5 games in a tournament. Doing so will be a major achievement with them, and anything better than that is going to be an extremely specific list that’s relying on and abusing a very specific gimmick and unit.  The lists that you can do this with are very few, and still takes an incredible level of competence to use. 

I think anvilstrike is currently at the top of this heap by a pretty wide margin...

This is true of any faction really. The drop off from a 4-1 build and a 3-2 build in power is titanic. What you are mostly pointing out is that lack of variety in 4-1 build strategy potential, which I would agree a legit concern. 

I would argue that desolators are quality in ghb19 and are probably a 4-1 strategy piece. Almost no faction operates in a multi discipline space like SCE with competitive shooting and combat builds. 

[Mark Williams]

2 hours ago, whispersofblood said:

This is true of any faction really. The drop off from a 4-1 build and a 3-2 build in power is titanic. What you are mostly pointing out is that lack of variety in 4-1 build strategy potential, which I would agree a legit concern. 

I would argue that desolators are quality in ghb19 and are probably a 4-1 strategy piece. Almost no faction operates in a multi discipline space like SCE with competitive shooting and combat builds. 

Even an admission of how vast of a difference between the handful of "good builds" and "normal builds" is farther than I usually get with this conversation. So thanks for that.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Mark Williams

[PJetski]

Anvilstrike is arguably the best list in the game with seemingly nothing that can consistently counter it... but it is only as good as the general.

If you play it just right it seems like there's really nothing your opponent can do. Aetherwings stop melee, teleporting raptors win the ranged game, incantors stop magic long enough to let the raptors shoot, and evocators kill everything they touch.

The only truly hard matchup is the mirror 🤣

[XReN]

On 6/28/2019 at 11:58 PM, CommissarRotke said:

Question about kits for y'all... does Thunderstrike Brotherhood come with javelin option for the prosecutors? It seems to only have hammers for the liberators and paladins

No, It's SCE half of old Starter set with Khorne, so all models are Easy To Build and don't have any options

 

[Bishop1893]

Morning guys. Ive tested my list, so, i found some problems. 2 ballistas without support are too random. Block of 15 libs hold the line pretty good. Concussers and Vandus are cool units. But HoS is a problem((  It dont give anough value to sacriface staunch deffender or another host. So i came to list like this:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Lord-Castellant (120)
- General
- Trait: Deathly Aura 
Lord-Relictor (100)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Artefact: Soulthief 
15 x Liberators (300)
- Warhammers
- 3x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
9 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (510)
4 x Concussors (480)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

I have good shooting, scroll for autounbind, big block of battline and screen. What do you think?

[FattBooM666]

So I was thinking about the Gavbomb.

Can you do like this🤔:

 

15-20x Evocators are om the board, trying getting buffed from empower and mystic shield or azyrite halo (try place models away from dispell range) have castellant givning +1 armor. 

(I assume you still have the buff after getting teleported)

Movement you use the wind tunnel towards your evocatorbomb, so you can heal and maybe get the 6” bubble 6+ save. 

at the end of movement you drop some sequitors, gavriel and vexilor, vexilor teleports them to gavriel pop the +3/+6” charge with Reroll. (If not allowed with vexilor just have him at base since Gavriel should be enough) 

With all these stuff your evocators should have quite the dmg output. 

T2 your general is there and you have a new CP and you can use it on evocators for the empower. 👍 

Idk people talk about heraldor+6cats castellant and catboss, 

15 evocators 660 vs 600pts more MWs from the foot soldiers. 

Idk, my example is more exensive, but I think I feel I would get more value from it. 🤔 thoughts? 😃

[Turragor]

15 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

I mostly agree with you except that I think Anvilstrike is probably more than just a break check.

 I frankly feel that Stormcast on average is quite a bad army, and have felt that way for ages. I can’t seem to get much traction on this forum whenever I say that, but I think it’s true nevertheless. If you build a fun, balanced list with them, you will struggle, and I do mean struggle, to win 3/5 games in a tournament. Doing so will be a major achievement with them, and anything better than that is going to be an extremely specific list that’s relying on and abusing a very specific gimmick and unit.  The lists that you can do this with are very few, and still takes an incredible level of competence to use. 

I think anvilstrike is currently at the top of this heap by a pretty wide margin...

If you look at SC stats for big tournaments a max average of 3 wins is kind of clearly where they sit. However, and I find this interesting, SC are kind of skewed stats wise based on a lot of people rolling up to tournaments to have fun with whatever models they have (non-optimised lists).

SC are a popular faction and (often) an intro faction to many, so you would see a lot of these "I took what I have" lists when compared to other factions.

So my suggested take away is that SC will (rarely) place top 10%  in bigger tournaments but the true potential of the best lists and a means of measuring how much variety we have (that performs well) are kind of hidden in the global stats.

[Coolwood]

9 hours ago, PJetski said:

Anvilstrike is arguably the best list in the game with seemingly nothing that can consistently counter it... but it is only as good as the general.

If you play it just right it seems like there's really nothing your opponent can do. Aetherwings stop melee, teleporting raptors win the ranged game, incantors stop magic long enough to let the raptors shoot, and evocators kill everything they touch.

The only truly hard matchup is the mirror 🤣

I like the look of the Anvilstrike list you use, but as you say its probably quite a skill based list when you factor in playing the objectives and mobility. Would you agree its not an easy list to use to its full potential? 

I find it interesting that barely anyone is using it in tournaments that I have seen recently (Bobo, AOS 6 nations etc). I love Sequitors and Evocators but as people are pointing out on here they just dont seem to perform as well in the current meta which is a shame.  

On another note - i used the Drakesworn and Desolator list against Skaven Pestillans the other week on Relocation Orb and won. The scenario isnt exactly balanced and plays into Stormcasts hands in my opinion being only 1 objective, (especially as the objective bounced my way ) but the list performed well and a unit of 6 Desolators in particular were very good - great mix of offensive capability and better defence than battlecats. 

[Lionheart]

9 hours ago, PJetski said:

Anvilstrike is arguably the best list in the game with seemingly nothing that can consistently counter it... but it is only as good as the general.

If you play it just right it seems like there's really nothing your opponent can do. Aetherwings stop melee, teleporting raptors win the ranged game, incantors stop magic long enough to let the raptors shoot, and evocators kill everything they touch.

The only truly hard matchup is the mirror 🤣

May i ask how is composed that list?

Edited July 1, 2019 by Lionheart
grammar

[CommissarRotke]

6 hours ago, XReN said:

No, It's SCE half of old Starter set with Khorne, so all models are Easy To Build and don't have any options

 

I bought some javelin bits, can i use these on that  kit's prosecutors?

[XReN]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

I bought some javelin bits, can i use these on that  kit's prosecutors?

Shouldn't be too hard to do so

[PJetski]

1 hour ago, Coolwood said:

I like the look of the Anvilstrike list you use, but as you say its probably quite a skill based list when you factor in playing the objectives and mobility. Would you agree its not an easy list to use to its full potential? 

I find it interesting that barely anyone is using it in tournaments that I have seen recently (Bobo, AOS 6 nations etc). I love Sequitors and Evocators but as people are pointing out on here they just dont seem to perform as well in the current meta which is a shame.  

On another note - i used the Drakesworn and Desolator list against Skaven Pestillans the other week on Relocation Orb and won. The scenario isnt exactly balanced and plays into Stormcasts hands in my opinion being only 1 objective, (especially as the objective bounced my way ) but the list performed well and a unit of 6 Desolators in particular were very good - great mix of offensive capability and better defence than battlecats. 

Yes, it is a very skill intensive list with a high skill floor to make it even remotely worthwhile.

1 hour ago, Lionheart said:

May i ask how is composed that list?

1x10 Evocator
1x9 Longstrikes
2x3 Aetherwings
3x5 Liberators
2x Incantor
Azyros
Heraldor
Relictor (Translocation)
Geminids