AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[frostfire]

I am so desperately looking forward to some heavy point drops even some new stuffs for our army.

It’s getting harder to compete with newly updated army if we don’t get buffed.

Not saying we don’t stand any chances, just arguing that even tiny mistake can lead to complete defeat these days.

[Talunus]

11 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Well, the bird is special, it moves at the start of your opponent's charge phase, so if your opponent did not shoot it down in the shooting phase, their unit will probably get stuck for one turn. The prosecutor, on the other hand, did not have such mechanism, it is very easy for the prosecutor to do a successful charge, then? They will probably been wiped out in your turn that you charge them. If you just place it between the enemy unit and your key unit, it is very hard to deny the enemy unit to charge your key unit like the bird did. 100 points for 3 model can hardly build a wall like the skinks  or clanrats

I can totally see your perspective. However; skink damage I've always seen to be unreliable, they're there just to soak up wounds.Comparatively, we cant use clanrats as allies unless I'm missing something lol.

With prosecutor, we have better armor, but 4 less wounds. If you're using prosecutors to screen a heavy melee unit, odds of having a castellant are high and the Prosecutors can take advantage of that 12" re-roll 1s saves.

Not only that, if you take celestine hammers, you can re roll 1s to hit and they hit on 3-3 compared to the skinks pretty horrendous to hits and to wounds. 

My only final arguement goes back to the birds. For Prosecutors, they can charge at 18" and use 3d6 die to make that charge, if you have vexillar within the bubble, you can re-roll that charge or even command point it. I think if an opponent sees you make a long distance charge, it might just psych them out. Prosecutors look more formidable and opponents might try anything to shy away from them as possible, making it easier to push heavier units to outflank or maneuver them.

Idk I could just be on a rant here, but in my local meta, there are only 2 other SCE players and they bring drake's or evo/seq units so my meta has learned around them. Being back something they havent seen in awhile and get inside their head. War is also a mental game.

Still love hearing your guyses opinions though!! This forum has greatly improved my gameplay with everyone's inputs and ideas. So glad to be apart of an awesome community of warhammer 🤘

[Requizen]

33 minutes ago, Talunus said:

I can totally see your perspective. However; skink damage I've always seen to be unreliable, they're there just to soak up wounds.Comparatively, we cant use clanrats as allies unless I'm missing something lol.

With prosecutor, we have better armor, but 4 less wounds. If you're using prosecutors to screen a heavy melee unit, odds of having a castellant are high and the Prosecutors can take advantage of that 12" re-roll 1s saves.

Not only that, if you take celestine hammers, you can re roll 1s to hit and they hit on 3-3 compared to the skinks pretty horrendous to hits and to wounds. 

My only final arguement goes back to the birds. For Prosecutors, they can charge at 18" and use 3d6 die to make that charge, if you have vexillar within the bubble, you can re-roll that charge or even command point it. I think if an opponent sees you make a long distance charge, it might just psych them out. Prosecutors look more formidable and opponents might try anything to shy away from them as possible, making it easier to push heavier units to outflank or maneuver them.

Idk I could just be on a rant here, but in my local meta, there are only 2 other SCE players and they bring drake's or evo/seq units so my meta has learned around them. Being back something they havent seen in awhile and get inside their head. War is also a mental game.

Still love hearing your guyses opinions though!! This forum has greatly improved my gameplay with everyone's inputs and ideas. So glad to be apart of an awesome community of warhammer 🤘

The practicality trumps the numbers on this one. 

First, no one is afraid of Prosecutors. They're... fine, for 100 points, but a unit of them is not dissuading anyone. They're just going to charge them and wipe the unit without stopping to think about it. If you charge a unit with them, you might kill a couple models and then get wiped out in return. 6 wounds on a 4+ is basically nothing, and while the Grandweapon is ok, most armies will laugh at the damage output.

Skinks take up a lot of space. String ten 25mm bases out with the full 1" between them, and you can make a line nearly 19" long, which is enough to cover a huge amount of board space. The ability to block off drop zones, cover edges for things like Eels outflank or FEC summoning, or just create a wall of space that people can't move through is extremely important. It doesn't matter if the Skinks die - remember that there are only 5 turns in a game, and if they can hold off a unit for one of them by literally just standing there, then you're golden. Additionally, Objectives are held by body count, and 10 throwaway bodies that you can put on an objective and outnumber a small unit is invaluable when the rest of our army is such low model count. Games are won by points, and by preventing your opponent from doing what they want. Skinks cover both of those options.

Aetherwings, on the other hand, lock down opponents harder than anything else in the game. You're correct in that the 3d6" charge on the Prosecutors can get you the initiative and charge anything fairly reliably, but as I said, they're just going to charge in and die after doing a small amount of damage. Aetherwings, on the other hand, mess with your opponent's head. Since you can use Watchful Guardians to engage your opponent before their Charge sequence, therefore turning off their ability to charge, they have to either give the birds a wide berth or deal with them in some way. If you can tag an Abhorrent Ghoul King on Terrorgheist, it can't charge at all for a turn, period. That means your units are completely safe (well, aside from some pile-in shenanigans) as long as they get within 3" of the enemy. 

I think I can count on one hand the number of things that mess with enemy charges like that. Charging is such a huge part of gameplans that just being able to say "no" to the opponent's most powerful tools will win you games just as much or more than any damage you may or may not do. The ability to take away an entire turn's worth of combat can and will break the game for many opponents.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Requizen

[Talunus]

23 minutes ago, Requizen said:

The practicality trumps the numbers on this one. 

First, no one is afraid of Prosecutors. They're... fine, for 100 points, but a unit of them is not dissuading anyone. They're just going to charge them and wipe the unit without stopping to think about it. If you charge a unit with them, you might kill a couple models and then get wiped out in return. 6 wounds on a 4+ is basically nothing, and while the Grandweapon is ok, most armies will laugh at the damage output.

Skinks take up a lot of space. String ten 25mm bases out with the full 1" between them, and you can make a line nearly 19" long, which is enough to cover a huge amount of board space. The ability to block off drop zones, cover edges for things like Eels outflank or FEC summoning, or just create a wall of space that people can't move through is extremely important. It doesn't matter if the Skinks die - remember that there are only 5 turns in a game, and if they can hold off a unit for one of them by literally just standing there, then you're golden. Additionally, Objectives are held by body count, and 10 throwaway bodies that you can put on an objective and outnumber a small unit is invaluable when the rest of our army is such low model count. Games are won by points, and by preventing your opponent from doing what they want. Skinks cover both of those options.

Aetherwings, on the other hand, lock down opponents harder than anything else in the game. You're correct in that the 3d6" charge on the Prosecutors can get you the initiative and charge anything fairly reliably, but as I said, they're just going to charge in and die after doing a small amount of damage. Aetherwings, on the other hand, mess with your opponent's head. Since you can use Watchful Guardians to engage your opponent before their Charge sequence, therefore turning off their ability to charge, they have to either give the birds a wide berth or deal with them in some way. If you can tag an Abhorrent Ghoul King on Terrorgheist, it can't charge at all for a turn, period. That means your units are completely safe (well, aside from some pile-in shenanigans) as long as they get within 3" of the enemy. 

I think I can count on one hand the number of things that mess with enemy charges like that. Charging is such a huge part of gameplans that just being able to say "no" to the opponent's most powerful tools will win you games just as much or more than any damage you may or may not do. The ability to take away an entire turn's worth of combat can and will break the game for many opponents.

I can totally understand the choice over prosecutors now... I just didn't want to believe it at first! Maybe if GW gave them 6 in a unit or another ability to further drive what they can do for SCE...

It's so hard to build SCE with anything that isn't Evos/sequitors/ and anvilstrike. Everything else I feel that we have in our armory is so behind in wound output. Itll be nice to see how this GHB puts our points so hopefully we can see other lists being active besides the same 2 shitake mishrooms.

[Requizen]

27 minutes ago, Talunus said:

I can totally understand the choice over prosecutors now... I just didn't want to believe it at first! Maybe if GW gave them 6 in a unit or another ability to further drive what they can do for SCE...

It's so hard to build SCE with anything that isn't Evos/sequitors/ and anvilstrike. Everything else I feel that we have in our armory is so behind in wound output. Itll be nice to see how this GHB puts our points so hopefully we can see other lists being active besides the same 2 shitake mishrooms.

There are a couple atypical builds that don't focus on those - Skyborne Slayers is still fairly legitimate, Stardrake builds can still hold their weight in a number of matchups, and there's at least one Astral Templars Ballista + Hurricanum gimmick build out there. But with everything changing in a month or two, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Not only will our book change, but hopefully the shape of the meta in general.

[The World Tree]

What second artefact would you recommend in this list;

Celestial Vindicators

LA on Dracoline
Lord-castellant
Celestant Prime
2x10 Sequitors
5 Liberators
2x3 Dracolines
Cleansing Phalanx

I normally don't like list advice but I hate artefacts and they are spread across so many books...

[PJetski]

54 minutes ago, Requizen said:

There are a couple atypical builds that don't focus on those - Skyborne Slayers is still fairly legitimate, Stardrake builds can still hold their weight in a number of matchups, and there's at least one Astral Templars Ballista + Hurricanum gimmick build out there. But with everything changing in a month or two, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Not only will our book change, but hopefully the shape of the meta in general.

June 15 is only two weeks away, not 2 months

[Requizen]

5 minutes ago, PJetski said:

June 15 is only two weeks away, not 2 months

Was a date given? I only heard "in June", so for GW that can mean "Preorder on June 29th and 2 week preorder".

[Martijn de Bruin]

Hello everyone! I`m returning to the game and would like some advice on a list. I absolutely love the LCoSD and Dracoths.

What would currently be the most competitive 2000 points list with them?

[Juicy]

11 hours ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

Hello everyone! I`m returning to the game and would like some advice on a list. I absolutely love the LCoSD and Dracoths.

What would currently be the most competitive 2000 points list with them?

Best wait for the new handbook. In about 2 weeks. Then al the competive lists gets rebuild. Who knows we might even play draconic units again in competive games

[Incineroar87]

Hearing of people in some tournaments  complaining about Shootcast.  What does a standard Shootcast list look like ?

 

 

[HammerOfSigmar]

10 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

Hearing of people in some tournaments  complaining about Shootcast.  What does a standard Shootcast list look like ?

 

 

Anvil longstrike,  9 longstrike is the key, add some aetherwing to protect them.  

Edited June 2, 2019 by HammerOfSigmar

[schwabbele]

2 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

Hearing of people in some tournaments  complaining about Shootcast.

Aww cute, complaining in an competitive environment. Next time give them some cheese in addition to their w(h)ine

[Incineroar87]

2 hours ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

Anvil longstrike,  9 longstrike is the key, add some aetherwing to protect them.  

Are they the same lists that take 2-3 Ballister and the Ordinator ?

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

1 hour ago, schwabbele said:

Aww cute, complaining in an competitive environment. Next time give them some cheese in addition to their w(h)ine

Well, I have seen FEC players complaining about SCE shooting so there is that.

[Roark]

3 hours ago, Incineroar87 said:

Are they the same lists that take 2-3 Ballister and the Ordinator ?

Generally not in Anvilstrike. Astral  Templars is conducive to massed Ballistae though, and the army has +1 to Hit Monsters, so I imagine FEC might hate it.

[Erdemo86]

Got my „Gavriel Sureheart“ Conversion done. Only the Base to do. What do you think?

 

[Amradiel]

Never thought that I would write these words. I'm looking for help with a competitive 1000 point list 🙈 I want to throw an army together (that is easy to paint) to get more games under my belt 😊 Thank you!

[W33daxe]

2 hours ago, Erdemo86 said:

Got my „Gavriel Sureheart“ Conversion done. Only the Base to do. What do you think?

 

I think it’s absolutely awesome!

I was quite happy with my Gavriel that I gave a new head and magnetized the shield/hammer so he could be a normie Celestant. 

But this is just so cool and sturdy. 

You could field him next to Paladins and still have him look mighty!

[Lord Ein]

As a scions counter-punch, Would you reccomend a unit of 10 Evocators on foot, or two units of 5? With only 1 caster, I’m leaning on 2x5 for more unbinds..

[schwabbele]

1 hour ago, Lord Ein said:

As a scions counter-punch, Would you reccomend a unit of 10 Evocators on foot,

How do you plan on reliably bringing them in?`9" is a lot, even with re-roll

With Evo's I prefer 10, kinda tells your opponent your aren't here to f**k around.

[Lord Ein]

8 minutes ago, schwabbele said:

How do you plan on reliably bringing them in?`9" is a lot, even with re-roll

With Evo's I prefer 10, kinda tells your opponent your aren't here to f**k around.

Yeah 9" scions. Not a fan of Gavriel. Used him once, won easily, but most boring game I’ve had in AoS 🤷‍♂️

[Bozly]

Whats a recent shoot cast list then? Is there a more specialized list for the fec and hero based slaanesh running around is there a more general take?

 

I havent played this list yet ive been playing evocator gavriel when i do play sc but i do more of KO.

 

I like 20 sequitor blobs also its what i have painted but

 

Lord arcanum general

lord ordinator

knight azyros

lord castellant

5 lib

5 lib

20 sequitor

9x raptors with hurricane

4x ballista

10 skinks. 

 

Now i was doing the math to a 4+ armor save on average longstrikes outdamage the hurricanes unless they stand still then its about even. But with their price point difference we lose a hero and the skinks.

 

so another list

lord arcanum

knight azyr

lord ord

5 lib

5 lib

20 sequitor

4x ballista

9 longstrikes

 

it has less bodies but in modes like places of (arcane) power you just snipe heros and win. I like the first list better because of 4 heroes when you roll missions like that. But you can take out a ballista for another hero.

 

tell me if im way off and should swap some units like the sequitor blob for liberators or another 9 longstrikes. Id prefer to use the ballista and sequitors only because i have them

 

 

Also for those whove played the list is the lord ordinator a bait? Should i not rely on it?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Bozly

[PJetski]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:40 PM, Requizen said:

Was a date given? I only heard "in June", so for GW that can mean "Preorder on June 29th and 2 week preorder".

I could have sworn I saw June 15th as the release date but now I can't find anything to back that up

[crkhobbit]

18 hours ago, Bozly said:

Now i was doing the math to a 4+ armor save on average longstrikes outdamage the hurricanes unless they stand still then its about even. But with their price point difference we lose a hero and the skinks.

Don't discount the 30" range on the Longstrikes.  There will be times where your Hurricanes can't shoot because they aren't in range.  Or they aren't in range of the target that you really need dealt with.

Additionally, if you're 18" from the enemy, they're only 18" from you.  30" range is much safer.  Especially when you're paying that many points for so few wounds.

I'm not saying one is better than the other.  But it's real easy to get lost in the numbers without properly considering how it plays on the table..