AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Requizen]

16 minutes ago, GlanceOnASix said:

Looking at the list, my first though would be, dropping 1 of the Aetherwings would let you make both 5 man libs Sequitors, which makes your back field objective holders that much better.  And you'd still be able to be 6 units in the sky (as you'd go to 12 drop from 13).

Or if not that, putting the two vanguard squads together in one unit would keep the number of drops, but you'd be able to drop.

Gav/Evocators/Banner/6 man Raptor/Bird/Bird (or another bird if you kept the banner on the ground)

I think the more Aetherwings, the better. They control space like nothing else in the game, with the ability to just turn off charges. 

Combining the units is a reasonable idea, though it does limit one's ability to spread out (though 18" for Watchful Guardians is still quite good). Additionally, you get a reasonable amount of mileage out of having that extra Prime for damage, though it's not too extremely strong. That change would be worth considering. 12 Drops isn't going to out-deploy anything, but it does let me put all the Aetherwings up, as you say.

Edit: it's not inconceivable to drop down to 3 Hurricanes period and get things like Skinks or upgrade the Liberators. I was more worried about 3 just getting punked and losing out on the ability to use Watchful Guardians at all, not to mention that Hurricane shooting is pretty solid point-for-point.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Requizen

[GlanceOnASix]

According to my wardolly math, assuming 6 with just all the rapid fire bow, thats 13.5 dmg before saves.  So lets say against skaven or skelies or somthing, you're looking at taking a 1/3rd off that so 8ish.  6 dudes are needed to clean up that line, if you only removed 4 models I dont think you'd be able to sneak all that much in with the Gav charge.

 

[Requizen]

1 minute ago, GlanceOnASix said:

According to my wardolly math, assuming 6 with just all the rapid fire bow, thats 13.5 dmg before saves.  So lets say against skaven or skelies or somthing, you're looking at taking a 1/3rd off that so 8ish.  6 dudes are needed to clean up that line, if you only removed 4 models I dont think you'd be able to sneak all that much in with the Gav charge.

 

Well, the point isn't so much to remove anything with the Hurricanes, as it is to create a zone where they can't move without overcommitting and messing up their positioning. I'm not worried about the Hurricanes doing damage, I more want them just standing there with Aetherwings to ruin the player's ability to participate in the Movement and Charge Phases. The extra damage is just icing. 

I might try this out sometime in the near future.

[GlanceOnASix]

Or just in the spirit of theory hammer, you take the libs, change them to squads of Xbow Judicators with the lightning cannon srg which average 5.3 dmg + 2 mortal wounds per squad, and then your battle line turn 1 drops, clears chaff, gav goes in, they then backup to hold objectives.

[Erdemo86]

I thought its time to share my list too. I have very big succes with it on our local tournaments.

feel free to comment.

Hammers of Sigmar
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Lord-Castellant (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
10 x Evocators (400)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 138
 

[Mark Williams]

@Requizen I’ve been playing lists like this for over a year. It has good offense and answers for a lot of opponents. But it gets stuffed by eels and FEC and most DoK. Very solid tier 2 list that can get 2-3 wins out of 5 depending on how well you play and what your matchups are.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Mark Williams

[Wulfrik the Wanderer]

New to SCE.

My store is doing a Necroquake event to celebrate the new Forbidden Power that has hit the shelves. They also want to break in the new terrain they have received. However the rest of my friends are planning on bringing competitive lists to play in these battles (Skaven, BoK, DoK, SCE, and LoN). The format is 2000pt with battle line requirements, the catch is that your army can change if wanted through the matches, but your general stays the same.

I wanted to run a Stormcast list rather than doing my normal go to - Blades of Khorne.

Here is the list I am thinking:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals

- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

LEADERS

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (560) - General - Command Trait : We Cannot Fail - Stormbound Blade - Artefact : God-forged Blade - Mount Trait : Star-branded

Lord-Castellant (100)

Gavriel Sureheart (100)

Loremaster (140) - Allies

Excelsior Warpriest (80) - Allies

UNITS

3 x Aetherwings (50)

3 x Aetherwings (50)

6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360)

5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1 x Grandhammers

5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1 x Grandhammers

5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1 x Grandhammers

2 x Concussors (260)
TOTAL: 2000/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0

WOUNDS: 101

LEADERS: 5/6

BATTLELINES: 3 (3+)

BEHEMOTHS: 1/4

ARTILLERY: 0/4

ARTEFACTS: 1/1

ALLIES: 140/400

Idea of the list is to buff the dragon to reroll everything and send it in after a series of continuous fire from the Vanguard-Raptors at 30". Casting Hand of Glory with the Loremaster on a 5 to reroll Hit rolls and Wound rolls for the model. The Lord-Castellant to give the dragon a +1 to save and heal on 6's (become 7's). Gavriel Sureheart is my backup to reinforce or hammer any position that needs more "umph" with a unit of Concussors in deepstrike (they land, shoot MWs, then charge and most likely get MWs and keep enemy units from piling in). Aetherwings intercept charging units keen on stopping my Vanguard-Raptors, and the free (1 model) Gryph Hound from the Castellant gives off warning calls for any deep striking or teleporting units getting near them. Liberators are there to grab and hold objectives amid the chaos. 

Question: Should I drop the Stardrake and Excelsior Warpriest and Aetherwings to bring in a Lord-Celestant on Dracoth General with Vandus Hammerhand and 4x Fulminators? Would the Mortal Wound output of the Fulminator's shooting attacks in combo with LC on Dracoth with Vandus be more consistent then a LC on Stardrake? And the magic does seem low, but is it too low to be viable?

 

Any tips would be great and appreciated! 

**note: not concerned with picking who goes first, hence the many drops and no battalions.

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

@Requizen I’ve been playing lists like this for over a year. It has good offense and answers for a lot of opponents. But it gets stuffed by eels and FEC and most DoK. Very solid tier 2 list that can get 2-3 wins out of 5 depending on how well you play and what your matchups are.

I think with a bit of tweaking it can easily be a 4-1 list. I'm curious to try it.

[Mark Williams]

23 minutes ago, Requizen said:

I think with a bit of tweaking it can easily be a 4-1 list. I'm curious to try it.

I'll be curious to know your experiences.  It's a little different than my standard list.

I started out with a larger block at my home base, but I've been taking smaller units lately. I find that 15 is the magic number, but my current list I've trimmed down to just 10 so that I could get more threats on the table. I've also trimmed down from 10 evos to 5, so that I could fit my celestant prime into the list, but that'st just kind of a personal preference.

As for the Vanguard Raptors, the best tactic I've found with them so far is to put them 18" back, just at the edge of their threat range, and then form a wall of birds directly in front of them. My best record so far is stalling a strong unit from attacking a flank up to 3 turns. However, this relied somewhat on my opponent not understanding what controlled the birds, nor understanding just how weak they are. I'm finding the raptors don't deal as much damage as I'd like, and that it's actually quite expensive for what is essentially a delay tactic - if you think about it objectively, it's 470 points for what is effectively a harrassment and stall unit. They will not "clear out screens" the way that you are thinking, as effectively as you want them to, but they will do great at holding a flank from getting over-run for a few turns. I just worry that for 470 points you could just put another 20 sequitors on the board, and that's something you'll have to think about as you go, as that would arguably be more effective, and also be 4 fewer drops too...

You also need to be mindful of the number of heroes in your list, and how you will get them onto objectives for missions like Three Places of Power. You could end up in a mission in a tournment where you just can't get your heros to the objectives quickly enough, or they get picked off quickly. This is another reason that I have the Celestant Prime in my list.

I'm hoping that the GHB19 book might reduce the price of some of these units a little bit, as that would strengthen the army quite a bit.

Edit: Another thing to be mindful of is how succeptible this strategy is to endless spells that do D3 damage to each unit. A bad spell phase can wipe out the entire pack of small units, and some of the better tournament armies always have access to such a spell.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Mark Williams

[Roark]

15 hours ago, PJetski said:

Why do you need Translocation in this list? Seems like the Relictor isn't worth his points here - you are already fast enough to get anywhere you wants to be, and the ballista want to drop into play together as a cluster.

Are the spellweavers there because they are cheap wizards with a guaranteed unbind?

If you are willing to take allies then I would consider an Enchantress for two spells/unbinds at 160pt and a rerollable cast on the cogs.

I thought Translocation would be useful for grabbing late game/shifting objectives. The other main use I envisaged for the Relictor was the -1 to hit from Lightning Storm for nearby combats to slow down the destruction of my Liberator speed bumps/blockers.

Yeah, the Spellweavers are purely for their dispel scrolls. I do like rerolling to cast Cogs though. Super important.

Thanks!

[Heaven_lord]

Hey guys, will probably attend to a doubles 2x1000pts tournament.

Any good SCE lists at 1k pts around here?

I have an anvilstrike army (2k pts)

 

Thanks

[Juicy]

How much point do we think that draconic units wil go down? If they go down in points. I kind of hope making a list with 2 stardrakes and 4 fulminators in it and make it work somehow

[Sagittarii Orientalis]

22 minutes ago, Juicy said:

How much point do we think that draconic units wil go down? If they go down in points. I kind of hope making a list with 2 stardrakes and 4 fulminators in it and make it work somehow

I think at least fulminators and tempestors should have 20pts discount at the minimum, considering the heavy nerfs to their breath weapon and tempestors' special rules. I would even go as far as to say that tempestors should cost less than 200pts, since their unique ability has been weakened beyond hope.

 

And desolators too. Their warscroll shows GW's blatant attempt to sell more models. Unfortunately, their points cost is too high and performance  is mediocre to justify paying 40 pounds per box. I personally believe they should also cost less than 200pts, provided their warscroll remains unchanged.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Sagittarii Orientalis

[PJetski]

26 minutes ago, Juicy said:

How much point do we think that draconic units wil go down? If they go down in points. I kind of hope making a list with 2 stardrakes and 4 fulminators in it and make it work somehow

Compared to Skullcrushers at 180 per 3 and Dracolines at 300 per 3 (which I think are fair costs for those units) I think Dracoths should be costed like this:

Concussors: 260 -> 220

Fulminators; 220

Desolators: 220 ->200

Tempestors: 220 -> 180

Lord-Celestant on Dracoth: 220 -> 200

Drakesworn Templar: 460 -> 400

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake: 560 -> 480

Instead of lowering their costs they could reduce Dracoth min size to 1, greatly reduced the cost of their battalions (their battalions really suck), and/or add some way to make them battleline (like if your general is EXTREMIS).

Edited May 31, 2019 by PJetski

[Juicy]

Both sounds good to me. I feel like if we go they way for heavy price drop. People will play those units more. Atm my fulminators do work but nothing to justify the point cost.  Hope for atleast 60 point drop for drakesworn +lord celestant

[Mikosan]

49 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Compared to Skullcrushers at 180 per 3 and Dracolines at 300 per 3 (which I think are fair costs for those units) I think Dracoths should be costed like this:

Concussors: 260 -> 220

Fulminators; 220

Desolators: 220 ->200

Tempestors: 220 -> 180

Lord-Celestant on Dracoth: 220 -> 200

Drakesworn Templar: 460 -> 400

Lord-Celestant on Stardrake: 560 -> 480

Instead of lowering their costs they could reduce Dracoth min size to 1, greatly reduced the cost of their battalions (their battalions really suck), and/or add some way to make them battleline (like if your general is EXTREMIS).

I agree completely with all this, especially a way to make them battleline.  Seems easy enough if you take a LC on dracoth.  I remember Ben Johnson saying long ago that to the designers the extremis chamber didn't get a battleline option because in the lore they were brought in as devastating shock troops in times of great need.  Of course that was then, nowadays they aren't all that devastating and an army full of them would lose the objective game hard. The tempestor nerf really bummed me out because they were my favorite aesthetically and the targeted -1 to hit debuff was strong, but far from broken.  Would really like to see it go back given the breath weapon nerf on them and fulminators.   I asked for all of this in great detail on the community survey

Also that the Prime gets a better warscroll or goes down to 260-280.  Come on GW make it happen!!

Edited May 31, 2019 by Mikosan

[Duck1986]

Hi all,

I was just wondering if anyone has played as Stormcast in Skirmish 2019? I usually play Freeguild or Khorne in AOS, but as my group are wanting to try out a few skirmish matches soon, I felt it was a good time to bring out the few Stormcast units that I own, which could never field a full AOS army, so Skirmish should be perfect.

I have a Knight Incanator, Liberators, Retributors, Castigators and some Gryph-hounds, but my group are pretty happy with play-as if it's the same base-size and rough silhouette for LOS.

My main concern is the 250 Renown limit for matched play. Once you throw in a hero, there's not much room for manoeuvre. As I'm likely to be playing against Dispossessed or Death single-wound hordes, I wish I could take the Knight Incanator as his Spirit Storm spell could wipe out huge chunks of them within 18", but then I'm limited to only a few models on the board against what will seem millions. I do play as Deathwatch in 40k Kill Team though, so am used to being outnumbered with more elite troops, but in KT you have an extra roll to decide if it's a flesh wound or out of action, so it's probably a slightly easier ride as it's not necessarily the end on reaching 0 wounds!

So has anyone got any lists that they've used and feedback to go with them?

Edited May 31, 2019 by Duck1986

[Requizen]

Oh, Soulscream Bridge teleport happens in the Movement Phase, missed that. Would no longer consider as an option. More Birds it is.

[jhamslam]

7 hours ago, Heaven_lord said:

Hey guys, will probably attend to a doubles 2x1000pts tournament.

Any good SCE lists at 1k pts around here?

I have an anvilstrike army (2k pts)

 

Thanks

1000 point games are dominated by FEC. Heres why

1000 points are generally good for big monsters and summoning. FEC does both and summoning for essentially free.

Your best hope is Lord ordinator + 3 ballistas in deepstrike, Knight Incantor general for auto unbind shenanigans, 2 x5 liberators for battleline and a unit of evocators for close up killing

[Requizen]

33 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

1000 point games are dominated by FEC. Heres why

1000 points are generally good for big monsters and summoning. FEC does both and summoning for essentially free.

Your best hope is Lord ordinator + 3 ballistas in deepstrike, Knight Incantor general for auto unbind shenanigans, 2 x5 liberators for battleline and a unit of evocators for close up killing

Can only take 2 Ballistas at 1000 points. 

I've found Gavriel to be very strong at 1000 points. There's not nearly as much bubble wrapping, especially if for instance FEC wants to take any number of big monsters.

[jhamslam]

Just now, Requizen said:

Can only take 2 Ballistas at 1000 points. 

I've found Gavriel to be very strong at 1000 points. There's not nearly as much bubble wrapping, especially if for instance FEC wants to take any number of big monsters.

oh yeah , my bad. 2 ballistas and take a heraldor for guaranteed charges for evocators.

Gav is bad against FEC, because of Savage Strike. but yeah if you can bring down the general with your ballistas, Gavriel and Evocators will wrap up just about anything

[HammerOfSigmar]

Actually for 1000 game, if you know that your FEC opponent will take the 400 dragon, then you can use the anvil longstrike list to beat the FEC, since you can remove that dragon in turn 1. In 1000 game, the dragon cannot bring the ignoring rend aretfact, so it is much more vulnerable to longstrike, also take a incantor to auto-unbind the 5+fnp magic. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by HammerOfSigmar

[Talunus]

I've been looking at models and units to run and how to change up my local meta. I've seen plenty t of talk on here about people using birds to screen for them, but then I got an idea. If you're not using vanguard hunters (either) or using an anvilstrike list, why not use a couple units of Prosecutors to screen? They have great movement to be able to shove their way in front of an incoming charge, their charge is an 18" radius, a great range for denial, and they can deal a bit more damage and have more damage than birds. Only downside I see is yes, they do cost 50 points more and have the same wounds as birds as well as unit size. But damage characteristics might just be what can make a list with them as a screen.  What do you guys think?

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, jhamslam said:

oh yeah , my bad. 2 ballistas and take a heraldor for guaranteed charges for evocators.

Gav is bad against FEC, because of Savage Strike. but yeah if you can bring down the general with your ballistas, Gavriel and Evocators will wrap up just about anything

Gav is really only bad against Gristlegore, all other FEC it can deal with pretty well. That said, of course, Gristlegore is quite popular.

As has been discussed before, you can get around Gristlegore if the positioning is right, though, so it's not necessarily an autolose.

[HammerOfSigmar]

8 minutes ago, Talunus said:

I've been looking at models and units to run and how to change up my local meta. I've seen plenty t of talk on here about people using birds to screen for them, but then I got an idea. If you're not using vanguard hunters (either) or using an anvilstrike list, why not use a couple units of Prosecutors to screen? They have great movement to be able to shove their way in front of an incoming charge, their charge is an 18" radius, a great range for denial, and they can deal a bit more damage and have more damage than birds. Only downside I see is yes, they do cost 50 points more and have the same wounds as birds as well as unit size. But damage characteristics might just be what can make a list with them as a screen.  What do you guys think?

Well, the bird is special, it moves at the start of your opponent's charge phase, so if your opponent did not shoot it down in the shooting phase, their unit will probably get stuck for one turn. The prosecutor, on the other hand, did not have such mechanism, it is very easy for the prosecutor to do a successful charge, then? They will probably been wiped out in your turn that you charge them. If you just place it between the enemy unit and your key unit, it is very hard to deny the enemy unit to charge your key unit like the bird did. 100 points for 3 model can hardly build a wall like the skinks  or clanrats